British Badger cull proposals 'rejected'

magicbastarder

The government has decided against a cull of badgers in England to control TB in cattle, the BBC understands.

Its decision goes against former chief scientific adviser Sir David King's recommendations, made in 2007, that a cull could be an effective measure.

The decision has angered the National Farmers' Union, which claims cattle TB has already cost the industry millions.

But the Badger Trust said there was no "scientific, economic or practical case" for a cull.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7489000.stm

meathstevie

The difference between the culling procedure in the UK and the one over here is that the UK one is very patchy and solves nothing, on the contrary.

Over here a more thorough culling procedure is applied.

Mind you, by posting this I don't condone nor condemn.

rosiec

another difference with english culling is that they use cages to catch badgers compared to retraints that are used over here. The cages are obviously more easy to detect and that means that badgers are more likely to avoid them. Which basically means that not all the badgers in an area are caught and this leads to badgers moving from area to area. This perturbation effect is thought to be the reason why culling in england is less effective at reducing TB than that carried out in ireland. However there is good news that a vaccine is on the way so no more culling of badgers when its approved!!

meathstevie

This could give the same trouble as a foot and mouth vaccine that can't be used in the EU if beef carcasses are destined for the butchers counter. You can always try and leave treated bait outside badger setts though if the vaccine can be administered that way.

Roen

Came across two dead ones at the weekend, one was road kill and one was at the side of a lake well away from roads. I have no idea how it was killed, no obvious signs of injury.

The only thing I can think of is that the lake side is used by horse/pony trekkers and it may have gotten a belt off of one of them.

Anyone an idea on the general health of the badger population, is it in decline or on the rise etc?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOxR7rTYuSI

boneless

Princess Innocent Knickers wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOxR7rTYuSI

Cheeky... but I like it so it stays :P

seandugg

TheBadger Trust is a joke.......no "scientific, economic or practical case" for a cull. What about the millions in cost to the farming industry??

boneless

seandugg wrote: »

TheBadger Trust is a joke.......no "scientific, economic or practical case" for a cull. What about the millions in cost to the farming industry??

If you have concrete scientific data to back up your claim please share it with us. If you have not please refrain from throwing in random unsubstantiated posts please.

gerky

seandugg wrote: »

TheBadger Trust is a joke.......no "scientific, economic or practical case" for a cull. What about the millions in cost to the farming industry??

In previous threads you claimed that you hunted, killed and ate badgers so if you don't mind I'll not trust you as a source of information on badgers or any form of wildlife.

stevoman

boneless wrote: »

Cheeky... but I like it so it stays :P

I cant get that song out my head now!!!! damn :eek:

Vegeta

In May, a report by badger groups claimed the "virtual extermination" of badgers in the Republic of Ireland had failed to stop the spread of bovine TB.

But the NFU accused the groups of being selective in their use of figures and argued that controlled, selective culling of wildlife around infected farms in the Republic had brought considerable success in reducing the incidence of the disease.

For an animal which is virtually exterminated I see an awful lot of them dead on the roads much more so than any other animal in fact. I also see a lot at night so I would never have thought they were nearly exterminated.

whitser

besides tb badgers can do alot of damage,for example collapsing ditches and banks with tunnelling. they will take lambs and poultry. they also have no natural predators, so if the dept wont control them then farmers will do it themselves or get someone who will. and some might not be concerned about giving a quick humane death.
also the countryside is full of badgers,they are certainly not endangered.

seandugg

gerky wrote: »

In previous threads you claimed that you hunted, killed and ate badgers so if you don't mind I'll not trust you as a source of information on badgers or any form of wildlife.

Congrats on reading my thread history, ill post u on a medal. That post was done by a friend who got hold of my account password.

boneless wrote: »

If you have concrete scientific data to back up your claim please share it with us. If you have not please refrain from throwing in random unsubstantiated posts please.

dont trust me if you want but I know a hell of alot more about TB and its effect on the farming industry than you 2 boyohs. I do a lot of research work on TB cattle and reactor phase in my line of work.

Im not sure if I can dig out the exact links for ye but here's some facts

Tb in cattle is directly proportional to Badger population in any given area.(Cambridge Study)

80

An 2007 house of Commons report recommended Badger Culls in high risk Cattle TB areas

The prevelence of TB in Badgers has risen from 5% in 2000 to 20% in 2002(Irish dept of agriculture)

The facts are there, it is the badger huggers who obscure the facts, and cost the farming industry and the tax payer millions in the process

donnaile

seandugg wrote: »

Congrats on reading my thread history, ill post u on a medal. That post was done by a friend who got hold of my account password.



dont trust me if you want but I know a hell of alot more about TB and its effect on the farming industry than you 2 boyohs. I do a lot of research work on TB cattle and reactor phase in my line of work.

Im not sure if I can dig out the exact links for ye but here's some facts

Tb in cattle is directly proportional to Badger population in any given area.(Cambridge Study)

80

An 2007 house of Commons report recommended Badger Culls in high risk Cattle TB areas

The prevelence of TB in Badgers has risen from 5% in 2000 to 20% in 2002(Irish dept of agriculture)

The facts are there, it is the badger huggers who obscure the facts, and cost the farming industry and the tax payer millions in the process

I couldn't agree more with you. It is crazy the cost to farmers just like myself. I read that Cambridge study and can definitly see first hand that TB is more promenant in Badger populated areas.

Its so frustrating to see my cattle contracting TB. Everyday I set aside an hour to go out with the shotgun just to get rid of a few badgers on and around the farm. In the last month alone I have killed near 20 of them.:mad:

I could use this hour to do other stuff on the farm. We need to do something about them. Thanks seandugg at least someone is positive here

It wasn't me!

Eh, lads, you're not entitled to shoot badgers, they're a protected species, and you'll land yourself in a lot of trouble.

NoNameRanger

donnaile wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with you. It is crazy the cost to farmers just like myself. I read that Cambridge study and can definitly see first hand that TB is more promenant in Badger populated areas.

Its so frustrating to see my cattle contracting TB. Everyday I set aside an hour to go out with the shotgun just to get rid of a few badgers on and around the farm. In the last month alone I have killed near 20 of them.:mad:

I could use this hour to do other stuff on the farm. We need to do something about them. Thanks seandugg at least someone is positive here

I've been watching this space, you lads are unreal:rolleyes:. Firstly the spread of TB is caused by the movement of cattle and the extermination of badgers!! Secondly by illegally killing Badgers you are putting your herd at risk, no wonder you see your cattle go down with TB. And you also risk prosecution and losing your gun.If you do not have TB at the moment you soon will.:rolleyes:

If you don't have TB that means your badgers are most likely healthy. If you wipe out all the healthy badgers, you will leave a vacant territory. This vacant territory will be quickly filled by neighbouring sick badgers that have been pushed out from the sett. The TB issue in Ireland has been a joke. I recently discovered an area that had been TB free for the last 35 years according to the previous estate manager, he wouldn't allow the Dept of Ag to snare the badgers for the same reasons i gave above. He has since retired and the new estate manager who didn't know any better allowed the Dept to wipe out all the badgers. They have now had their first incident of TB. Coincidence i think not!
A lot of people are employed in the Dept of Ag to work on Badgers and TB, if they were to discover that by not killing badgers and the proper control of the movement of cattle would virtually eliminate TB. They would be out of a job. In fact it is obvious they are totally aware of this. They are being pushed by the scientific community into working on a vaccine program. So in order to keep all the lads working they have now turned their attention to deer. The future of the TB industry seems to be turning towards deer now as a possible scapegoat. To eradicate TB, test cattle and cull the cattle with TB. Yes they are tested. Once a year!:rolleyes: A week later they may have picked up TB because all the healthy badgers have just been killed and a sick one has move in. A month later the herd has it and they are on their way to the mart and from there to several other farms to infect the herds and badgers. And the cycle continues! One solution would be testing cattle a week maximum before the mart or moving them outside of the immediate farm area. Farmers are renting/letting land for grazing cattle. Cattle are being moved all over the country and rubbing noses over tightly cropped hedges and electric fences. The Dept of Ag say badgers are spreading TB and yes this is a possibility because badgers can contract TB, but why are the badgers getting TB in the first place? Your neighbor buys cattle with TB or brings cattle back from another area with TB, the badgers get it from them then the badgers enter your farm or his cattle come in contact with yours and your cattle get it. Cattle are tested months later and all the farms in an area suddenly have TB. So you have to kill everything and start again. I don't have a problem with taking a badger from a sett and testing it for TB, but they are wiping out entire setts and increasing the risk of TB. I don't have a problem with killing every badger in the sett if it turns out they have TB. What i do have a problem with is killing badgers to keep the boys in jobs and cos it would be too hard to regulate the movement of cattle. Look how hard it was for foot and mouth. The same restrictions should be introduced for TB as Foot and mouth if they wanted to eradicate TB. But nobody wants to do that because thats business for you.

gerky

seandugg wrote: »

Congrats on reading my thread history, ill post u on a medal. That post was done by a friend who got hold of my account password.

I think you'll find I was one of the people responding to that thread, ah I see so this friend posted that you killed and ate badgers, did this friend also defend the posts when he was confronted and I also seem to recall a post where your "friend" offered to go and kill badgers for someone and split the meat with them.

My god how could I have been so wrong blaming you for posts that came from your account when all along it was your pesky friend, I wish I had a convenient friend like that so I could blame him whenever I talk rubbish.:rolleyes:

rosiec

meathstevie wrote: »

This could give the same trouble as a foot and mouth vaccine that can't be used in the EU if beef carcasses are destined for the butchers counter. You can always try and leave treated bait outside badger setts though if the vaccine can be administered that way.

Thats what they're trying to do with the vaccine at the moment but its not as simple as leaving it outside of setts. You have to make sure that all of the bait isnt eaten by the dominant animal in the sett, its also really difficult to make sure that each badger gets an adequate dosage and finally the bait has to be something that will hold the vaccine even in wet weather and something that the badger will eat. In this country its illegal to use meat based baits, so even worm bait is out of the question.

Pye

gerky wrote: »

I think you'll find I was one of the people responding to that thread, ah I see so this friend posted that you killed and ate badgers, did this friend also defend the posts when he was confronted and I also seem to recall a post where your "friend" offered to go and kill badgers for someone and split the meat with them.

My god how could I have been so wrong blaming you for posts that came from your account when all along it was your pesky friend, I wish I had a convenient friend like that so I could blame him whenever I talk rubbish.:rolleyes:

I thought this kind of "It wasn't me it was my little brother/sister/friend" crap only went on in children's forums.

boneless

Pye wrote: »

I thought this kind of "It wasn't me it was my little brother/sister/friend" crap only went on in children's forums.

No... adults can do it too. It is advisable though to link it to the relevant topic of the forum though, not just make a random observation.

Run_to_da_hills

Slightly off topic, is there any such thing as a "Badger voice" for a Ucaller?

Not enough is done in this country to prevent roadside badger deaths, i see heaps of them on the way from Dublin to Ennis. A lot of foreign motorways and main roads have tunnels / pipes to facilitate badgers and other wild animals that want to cross the roads.

http://www.badgerland.co.uk/help/badgers/precautionary/tunnels.html

rosiec

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Slightly off topic, is there any such thing as a "Badger voice" for a Ucaller?

Not enough is done in this country to prevent roadside badger deaths, i see heaps of them on the way from Dublin to Ennis. A lot of foreign motorways and main roads have tunnels / pipes to facilitate badgers and other wild animals that want to cross the roads.

http://www.badgerland.co.uk/help/badgers/precautionary/tunnels.html

it can be very dificult to get badgers to use culverts or tunnels. They're creatures of habit and follow set paths. Giving the option of crossing the road in the usual place or going in a safe tunnel in another area they'll take the road. In continental europe where the badgers use tunnels all the roads are fenced to a dept of 6 foot underground to stop the badgers digging under them. I cant see the Irish road authorities doing that here!!