Employee Fired: anyone similar experiences

LegacyUser

In a hypothetical situation as an employee who works in a average multicorporation and they give you a contract that promises you can use the gym on site and other social facilities on site after work or during a rest break and it states that an employee can also use the work PC for personal use and in fact the multicorportae company deducts money from the employee wages every week towards these facilities. Now if the employee had a set working hours and a set salary, i.e ,
To get extra pay for extra work she (employee) must put in for overtime in order to get paid any money above his salary and she is not gaining from being on site after work and she is under no obligation to work outside her set hours.

Would it be in against the organisation of worktime act 1997 if this person used her office PC for personal use some hours after clocking off work. Presumably the employee is allowed to be on site afterwork ( the contract ) and is allowed to use the PC for personal use, but the employee never attempted to charge overtime or try by any means to get overtime.

Anyone ever had any experience like this. I would be interested to know about it. I am not seeking a legal opinion as legally I do not believe the employee has breached the organisation of worktime act.

nesf

I still think you're talking about a legal opinion, i.e. whether legally it's considered a breach of that act or not.

I'll leave this thread open to people discussing their experiences but that's all. You're going to have to go to a solicitor to get their opinion on the act to be honest.

LegacyUser

Thanks Nesf:

Experience and opinions are always interesting.

The legalities would require an employment expert, although the general public might express the view that work practice and culture dictates that an employee can exercise their privileges as promised and also describe how they should exercise those privleges.

If a particular work culture feels working after 10pm is unacceptable then that work place has a culture that should be respected and people should not carry out (personal/unpaid) work after 11pm. However if someone has gone against the work culture, this does not mean they have broken the law or company rules. That is my interpretation.

I know the orgnanisation of worktime 1997 quite well. It expressly states that I am entitled to 11 hours rest between shifts and entitled to rest after 48 hours in one week. It clearly states that while my employer can not force me to work in excess of these hours I can (should I want to) certainly work in excess of 48 hours in a week should I choose too.

How can you sack someone contrary to exisiting company rules and only based on your interpretation of the companies work culture, and justify this, using the organisation for the worktime act.

LegacyUser

Would it be in against the organisation of worktime act 1997 if this person used her office PC for personal use some hours after clocking off work. Presumably the employee is allowed to be on site afterwork ( the contract ) and is allowed to use the PC for personal use, but the employee never attempted to charge overtime or try by any means to get overtime.

If the contract specifically allows the person to be on site after work and the person can use their PC, as you say; then it really comes down to whether that employee has breached the organisation of worktime.

Lets focus on that. The Eu defines the working as Working time as

any tine that an employee is at his or her place of work or his or her employer's disposal and
carrying on or performing the activities or duties of his or her work, and "work" shall be construed accordingly."

The directives definition of "workingtime" any period during which the worker is working, at the employer's disposal and carrying out his activity or duties, in accordance with national laws or practice.

"Rest Period" is defined as "any time that is not working time" .



Therefore I assume workers use the gym and PC during rest period. Therefore the personal use of the PC ( which everyone does during rest period ) is no different to what you any employee does during rest period.


The question is does personal use of the PC during rest break constitute "working time". I don't think any company would tolerate employees being paid to browse the internet. I suppose it would be ideal if we could browse the internet for personal use/fun/pleasure and claim that technically it was "working time".

The question might be if during my rest break after work but while in my place of work , I wrote a letter to my boss requesting a pay rise, would that be constituted as "working time". Would the writing of the letter by me, which takes an hour and a half constitute working time. Particuarly if I'm not getting paid for the time it takes to write the letter.


Would it not be scandalous to harrass an employee about their recreational time without having a reasonable and sufficent reason and without having some rules and guidelines to base it on. What are the compnay work hours like and are they erratic hours, do employee have ot make huge adjustments to their lifestyles. There would have to very good reason to try to penalise an employee without neccessity.



The only thing I can think of of is healty safety and welfare. Although in order to penalise for this under section 9 of the act, the matter would have to be crytsal clear and explained in writing in a manner and language and so forth. From your post this did not happen at all, and an office and recreational area is not exactly a factory floor or a construction site. This is important I would imagine, as your manager can't cliam that you did not comply with a relevant statutory provison.

In fact in regards health and safety, your employer must have at some point explained the relevant statutory provision if you were being fired, to you. The manager never mentioned a statutory provison other than the organisation of work time act and while health and safety acts might (only in Eu law) in certain situations act in conjunction with the organisation of time act, it doesn't apply to your situation. The manager has failed to properly inform you of any health and safety provisions.

There are thousands of organisation of time act claims in the labour court every year, I have rarely and to be honest never heard of a breach by the organisation of worktime act being also a breach in health and safety.

I understand the Eu has a different interpretation, but in reality it would very exceptional and specific. It sounds like manager was studying law and decided to make you a guinea pig out of you to make a name for himself. It sounds like the most technical case in the world based on soem change in the law that your manager has failed to inform you of, which probably breaches the EMPLOYEES (PROVISION OF INFORMATION
AND CONSULTATION) ACT 2006. Basically if your manger has an interest in law and follows closely the changes in Eu law, then you still are entitled to the relevant information.

At no point has the manger given you any information. I assume you requested the information and were refused. If you failed to comply with relevant statutory provisions the manger must explain this to you. Manager hasn't.

Manager has used the organisation of worktime act. Have you breached the worktime act
and if you did was it a breach of health and safety: As you were given no information as required by the Employee provison and consultation act and ironically the health and safety act than you did not breach health and safety. This can be based on thousands of labour court cases on organisation of worktime where it rarely leads to a breach of health and safety. Except perhaps in the case of operating machinery or working in a health/safety product or service etc.


The health and safety statement.



report to his or her employer as soon as practicable:

- any work being carried out which might endanger themselves or others

-comply with all relevant statutory provisions

-take reasonable care to protect the safety of themselves and others who might be affected by their acts and omissions

-co-operate with his or her employer so far as is necessary to enable compliance with the relevant statutory provisions



Did you breach the organisation of worktime act 1997 or the EU directive by using your pc for personal use in what is sometimes used as a recreational area.?

Your manager failed to provide any company rules that could show that you were breaching company policy and he has instead accussed you of breaching a worktime act.


NO. In my opinion you did not breach the organisation fo worktime act or any other worktime act.Nor has your manager ever given you an oppoutunity to resolve the issue as he seems to keep changing the offence you have committed and hence confounding a problem he has created.

pirelli

goldsgym wrote: »

In a hypothetical situation as an employee who works in a average multicorporation and they give you a contract that promises you can use the gym on site and other social facilities on site after work or during a rest break and it states that an employee can also use the work PC for personal use and in fact the multicorportae company deducts money from the employee wages every week towards these facilities. Now if the employee had a set working hours and a set salary, i.e ,
To get extra pay for extra work she (employee) must put in for overtime in order to get paid any money above his salary and she is not gaining from being on site after work and she is under no obligation to work outside her set hours.

Would it be in against the organisation of worktime act 1997 if this person used her office PC for personal use some hours after clocking off work. Presumably the employee is allowed to be on site afterwork ( the contract ) and is allowed to use the PC for personal use, but the employee never attempted to charge overtime or try by any means to get overtime.

Anyone ever had any experience like this. I would be interested to know about it. I am not seeking a legal opinion as legally I do not believe the employee has breached the organisation of worktime act.

You can sit in your place of work and rest. It doesn't mean that you working just because your in your place of work. That aside your either claiming payment and docking hours or you are not. I understand that in certain business's people clock hours they havent worked and sometimes they clock up so many hours they get their employer into trouble, A very exceptional situation. etc..



Company rules that's what matters.