Science in TCD?

Deadbot-22

hi everyone,

i'm going into 6th year in sept and am currently torn between science and engineering.

so i'm just looking for some advice/information on science in TCD. the prospectus seems a bit vague.

what choices do you have in first and second year? i read somewhere that one of the choices is geology or geography, does that mean you can't do them both? also is maths compulsory?

also just wondering what the money is like in science? (this probably won't affect my decision, i'm going for what i like so just out of curiosity!) i'm thinking of going the physical science route - either geography/geology or physics itself.

also is it an enjoyable course?

any help/recommendations would be very much appreciated.

thanks in advance.

The Black Oil

Have a look at some of the links here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054901993

Jonathan

This forum is a bit biased... A load of us are engineers :pac:

HoboJesus

Deadbot-22 wrote: »

what choices do you have in first and second year? i read somewhere that one of the choices is geology or geography, does that mean you can't do them both? also is maths compulsory?

also just wondering what the money is like in science? (this probably won't affect my decision, i'm going for what i like so just out of curiosity!) i'm thinking of going the physical science route - either geography/geology or physics itself.

also is it an enjoyable course?

any help/recommendations would be very much appreciated.

thanks in advance.

I'm just finished second year of science and I'll most likely be doing Astrophysics next year, so I'll clear up what I can for you.

In first and second year, you can do either three or four subjects for the year. If you do three, one of them has to be mathematics, with the other two being sciences, or you can do four, in which case you do three sciences and mathematical methods, which is fairly easy. Oh and if you do maths methods and want to do physics you have to do Physics B, which seems to just be a less maths-heavy version of Physics A. If you're looking into a physics degree at the end, do Physics A, maths, and a science of your choice.

Oh, the sciences are: Physics (either A or , Chemistry, Biology, Geography/Geology

Now the "/" for geography/geology doesn't mean you choose one. For first year, one of the courses is both geography and geography, ie you do both, and it takes as many lectures a week as would be expected for one science.

Second year is different, you just choose three from: Physics, Chemistry, Biology I ('small' biology), Biology II ('big' biology), Maths, Geography and Geology. Note that the geos and bios are now separated into two courses.

I did maths, physics and chemistry for both years and really did find it very enjoyable, especially the physics. Chemistry to me was a bit meh. But that's mainly because it was just my third "I guess I have to do three subjects" subject.

As for money, I really don't know. I suppose I'm wondering about that as well. By word of mouth, I'd say maths people will end up wealthy, but probably in the financial sector, physicists would either go into academics/research and do reasonably well, or also become bankers and the like. Chemists seem to be rolling in it. Don't know what happens to the bios or the geos :P

It's possible some of this has changed since I did first year, so if any of the above is wrong, hopefully someone will correct me.

Good luck with your decision, and I'd say you'll have a hard time regretting choosing science.

graphene

As far as i know the 1st year of science is being moduralised from next sept,
you will have to take 6 modules a year

Maths remains as is and is worth 2 modules (you must take both)

Maths methods is worth 1 module

Chemistry is being split into Chem A and Chem B at 1 module each (you must be taking A to take B, and both a and b are going to be required for later years as is happening now, eg. for 3rd year biochem you need 1st year chem at the moment so you will need to take both a and b in 1st year)

Physics is also being split in two and the current lower level Physics B is no more

Not sure about biology but i think its also being split in two.

Geography and Geology will now be worth 1 module each.

Basically means anyone doing maths methods dosent have to do another 3 full subjects anymore

AlanSparrowhawk

I think it's far to say that job prospects and therefore potential earnings based on the back of what a degree offers you is probably better in Engineering than Science. I'm a Science graduate myself for the record. If you feel yourself drawn towards Geography why are you considering Engineering? Because you also like Maths and Physics?

Both courses are very tough and require a lot of lectures, tutorials, studying, labs etc. with engineering being the most laborious. Engineering can be seen as bit of a slog for a lot of people.

Are you able to imagine what you actually want to do/be in 5 years time? Phds? Working in banks? Working in labs? Working in engineering firms?

Deadbot-22

thanks everyone for the replies, really appreciate it.

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

I think it's far to say that job prospects and therefore potential earnings based on the back of what a degree offers you is probably better in Engineering than Science. I'm a Science graduate myself for the record. If you feel yourself drawn towards Geography why are you considering Engineering? Because you also like Maths and Physics?

Both courses are very tough and require a lot of lectures, tutorials, studying, labs etc. with engineering being the most laborious. Engineering can be seen as bit of a slog for a lot of people.

Are you able to imagine what you actually want to do/be in 5 years time? Phds? Working in banks? Working in labs? Working in engineering firms?

yeah i'm most interested in physics, geography, tech graph and maths in school, so i feel science or engineering would be my best options. i do biology too and find it ok.

5 years time, i definitely don't want to be anywhere near a bank. lab work would interest me, so would working in engineering firms. don't know if i wanna get a phd, although i wouldn't rule it out (i've heard this is one of the only ways of making good money in science? i could be wrong).

i also wouldn't mind a mixture between indoor and outdoor work, so i feel engineering, geography and geology (and possibly another science subject) could all offer this.


thanks again.

piby

Honestly I found the first year 2 years of science to be quite boring for the most part but I think that's the case for a lot of people because you have to do certain subjects/courses you're not interested in. Don't get me wrong I did love parts of it just I wasn't mad about it overall. However I've just finished 3rd year in Micro and I can honestly say I really really enjoy now that I'm in it and to be honest it was my third choice course!

As for job prospects/salary etc. I can't comment on the physics/chemistry/maths side but with certain subjects like micro and biochem you'd be looking at a decent enough start point; I think I saw a report recently that showed the average entry pay was 30 000 for people with a degree in micro but don't quote me! Of course if you're really good at what you do there is serious money to be made at the higher end of the scale. On the other hand people with a degree in physiology or something similar generally go on to do other degrees/further education because it's very hard to find jobs in those sectors.

Scarinae

One of the things that I like the most about Science as a degree is that there's still room to move about a bit if you find the subjects aren't quite what you expected. I originally had Psychology down on my CAO form, with Science down next, but used the change of mind form to swap these around as I started to feel that Psychology was a bit wishy-washy and I'd be better off doing Science and finishing in Neuroscience, perhaps going down a Psychology-type route after my undergrad.
When choosing my first year subjects I originally planned to do Biology, Chemistry and Maths. However I struggled a bit with higher Maths for the Leaving Cert, and decided that taking Geography/Geology and Maths Methods in first year might be easier - I hadn't taken Geography for the LC but thought it sounded more interesting than Maths. Turns out I hated Chemistry and Biochemistry but really took to Geology, and ended up ditching Chemistry to do Bio 1, Bio 2 and Geology in second year, and then Geology as my third and fourth year subject. I think if I'd chosen a course of just biochemistry or neuroscience, I probably would have dropped out and had to start again. I'm not the only one who has radically changed direction like this - Science is great the way you can go in so many different directions.

Incidentally, you can go in different directions with an Engineering degree as well, but I'm not as familiar with the course structure. However I think that if you're interested in Physics, Geography etc that Science would offer you more flexibility in finding out what really fits for you.

kulekat

Do NOT do a science degree. You will not get a job directly from it. You will have to get some sort of a post grad M.Sc or Ph.D. after it. Then you have employers rejecting you because you are over qualified. If you post-doc at a university (after a Ph.D.) then you will never get a permanent position, and you will only get 1, 2 or 3 year contracts. I know of some postdocs that are on a monthly contract. It may not be a big deal to you now, but when you are looking for a mortgage/large loan in your late twenties/thirties then this line of work does not do it for the banks.

My advice, do a degree that has a specific job role at the end of the 4 years. Any of my friends who did eng are in great jobs now, and none of them had to do any post grad courses. All on great money, great prospects. For the record, I'm a tcd graduate - oh and beware, you actually get a B.A. (Mod) in Natual Science rather than a B.Sc. That says a lot.

AlanSparrowhawk

kulekat wrote: »

My advice, do a degree that has a specific job role at the end of the 4 years. Any of my friends who did eng are in great jobs now, and none of them had to do any post grad courses. All on great money, great prospects. For the record, I'm a tcd graduate - oh and beware, you actually get a B.A. (Mod) in Natual Science rather than a B.Sc. That says a lot.

I don't think the B.A versus B.Sc makes any difference what so ever. I think enough employers are familar with the TCD quirks (some of them being TCD graduates themselves). However, underneath all your hyperbole you do allude to a good point.

Do you want a degree for the sake of an academic pursuit or do you want a degree in order to give you a qualification that will make you more employable? In many ways, a TCD science degree isn't much better than a TCD Philosophy degree in terms of employment. TCD isn't a vocational college or a university overly concerned with producing worker bees for desk jobs. Quite a lot of chemistry/biochem/micro/genetics people go into science jobs, a lot of the rest of the graduates go into either further study or different types of jobs (consultancy, banking, teaching, civil service). Some of them are doing further study (H.Dips, M.sc, PhD) because they want to and/or always wanted to or they need further education to get them where they want.

I'm not sure which TCD degrees have specific jobs roles at the end of them besides the professional ones (denistry, pharmacy, medicine). I'm sure lots and lots of engineers become engineers but I wonder how many are working in banks and finance?

AlanSparrowhawk

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm sure lots and lots of engineers become engineers but I wonder how many are working in banks and finance?

A huge amount.

Podge_irl

kulekat wrote: »

Do NOT do a science degree. You will not get a job directly from it. You will have to get some sort of a post grad M.Sc or Ph.D. after it. Then you have employers rejecting you because you are over qualified. If you post-doc at a university (after a Ph.D.) then you will never get a permanent position, and you will only get 1, 2 or 3 year contracts. I know of some postdocs that are on a monthly contract. It may not be a big deal to you now, but when you are looking for a mortgage/large loan in your late twenties/thirties then this line of work does not do it for the banks.

You don't get a job directly from any degree. Some degrees give you a more linear path to a career (though some could equally view this as a more restrictive path), but a TCD science degree is a good degree that will teach you a lot of skills that employers are fond of. A fair percentage of people would go into jobs that have nothing to do with science, and a fair number would go into further research. The post-doc stuff above is largely nonsensical rambling.

5 years time, i definitely don't want to be anywhere near a bank. lab work would interest me, so would working in engineering firms. don't know if i wanna get a phd, although i wouldn't rule it out (i've heard this is one of the only ways of making good money in science? i could be wrong).

It depends on what you want to do in science. Some areas (mostly applied physics/chemistry) would have opportunities for research in a lab environment which is not an academic environment (industrial research etc), which may well not need a PhD and would supply a fair wage. Towards the more mathsy end of the spectrum (which, alas, is where I lay), you'd need to be involved in academic research really if you wanted to stick with that field.

emskywalker

Well hello there!
I just finished first year science in TCD and it was absolutely the best year (academicaly and otherwise) i've ever had. After leaving the hell hole of secondary school and dusting off its shackles i can safely say i adore what im doing in college.

i take physics, chemistry and maths and although there were aspects of subjects i didnt like you just have to suck it up... its the same with everything.

I never took chemistry before this year and that was pretty daunting but i got through it ok and there was always help available, all you have to do is ask and people are more than willing to lend a helping hand.

i mite be a bit biased but science is a real open field and i think its fantastic!

Hope i helped!

Deadevil129

^^^ Snap