was he the greatest

istabraq

Was Istabraq the greatset hurdler ever seen.Surely would have won 4 champion hurdles only for foot and mouth

fr wishy washy

istabraq wrote: »

Was Istabraq the greatset hurdler ever seen.Surely would have won 4 champion hurdles only for foot and mouth

Golden Cygnet would have been best ever before his early demise,Isttabraq was up there with the best of them (Sea Pigeon,Night Nurse etc).

stretchaq

I could safely say istabraq was the best hurdler ive seen best horse has to be the grat mare Dawn Run still the only horse to win a champion hurdle and gold cup and a mare crazy what a horse

wb

The best I've seen in my lifetime anyway. In fact, it was watching Istabraq that gave me a love of racing initially. Plus, I had my first ever real bet as an adult on the '98 champion hurdle. I've no doubt he would have won again had foot and mouth not got in the way.

Cantoris

his wins were very impressive especially his first champion hurdle win. But you have to put things in perspective too. We all loved him but it has to be said he beat some boats in his time.

In his first champion win he beat Theatreworld, I'm Supposin and the dodgepot Pridwell. In his second champion he again beat Theatreworld, the chasing type French Holly and high class handicapper Mister Morose. Third time round he beat Hors La Loi and another chasing type in blue Royal. Hors la Loi won the following year but would surely have been beaten by Valirimix had the latter stayed up.

I know Moscow came late in Istabraq's career but I think he would have been a close enough match for him even earlier in his career and Moscow was a chaser in the making. So while we all loved Istabraq and it was an amazing achievement to win four times at Cheltenham, his performances (outside his first champion) do not suggest he is entitled to stand out ahead of some other champion winners over the years. but it is a very subjective subject similar to the one that rages every few years about whether the new young chaser is better than Arkle. First it was Carvills Hill, then Best Mate, now Denman!!

Morgans

Beating Limestone Lad over any distance when he was in top form takes a bit of doing, but especially over 2m4f. Istrabraq despite winning those Champion Hurdles from poor opposition did so with authority, speed and class. he put 5l between him and Blue Royal from the last in his third CH win, having jumped the last upsides (on the back of a runny nose the night before apparently) He never had the calibre of opposition that Night Nurse had to face, so who knows how much better he could have become if given something to race with, but at worst, Istabraq could be rated only a few pounds inferior to Night Nurse and should rightly be considered in hurdling's top five. Unarguably the best champion hurdler since 1981, and clear of the likes of See You Then. Someone mentioned Dawn Run earlier. I'd fancy istabraq giving Dawn Run a stone.

Saying horses are embryo chasers is being used to somehow downgrade Istabraqs success. French Holly was plenty good enough over hurdles. Moscow Flyer also. Of course, embryo chasers like Brave Inca and Hardy Eustace have shown that horses mature into their frame as they age, not necessarily because they switch obstacles. I'm sure had Istabraq been born 20 years previous, he would have been sent chasing also. (Limestone Lad, Baracouda, etc etc etc)

Colonel Sanders

The best i have seen in my lifetime but I'm afraid I don't know enough about past champions (Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon etc) to make a comparison, and in any case its tough to compare horses from different generations. I have been told by many that Golden Cygnet would have been the greatest of them all had fate not interveened

In terms of ratings, what do timeform have to say on the matter?

Morgans

Night Nurse best by a pound or two according to Timeform if I remember correctly. Monskfield, Persian War, Comedy of Errors would be battling for the minor placings with Istabraq.

From what I have seen/read about Golden Cygnet he still had a little way to go to be rated as the best, but the way he won the Supreme Novices was jaw-dropping and looked to have Sea Pigeon beat at Ayr. However, still couldnt conclusively say that he was the best that never was.

Horses like Sir Ken and Hattons Grace are somewhat forgotten about as hurdles were treated as a second class type of national hunt race back in them days. Brown JAck won the Champion hurdle in the 1920s before winning 6 times at Royal Ascot. Who knows he could possibly have been the best of them all.

Frazzled

I would hardly describe Hardy Eustace as an embryo chaser. He never possessed to frame to suggest that anything over hurdles was a bonus.

Valid point re Limestone Lad (he did go chasing btw) and Baracouda but Istabraq would have been unlikely to go chasing in any era as he was naturally built for the smaller obstacles and his sire has a woeful record with chasers based on limited evidence.

Morgans

We'd agree to differ on Hardy Eustace and Baracouda going chasing. Baracouda to my mind was always a "tall" horse while Hardy was more athletic, clearly not as rangy, I dont think you could say that he was small in any company. 10/15 years previously, a second thought wouldnt have been given to sending them chasing. Istabraq, i accept, with his flat racing pedigree would have been less likely to go chasing, but again his athleticism would have stood him in good stead had they been silly enough to try.

Limestone Lad v Sackville in the powers gold cup was one of the most exciting chases of that novice year.