Connachts group in ECC

Abercrombie Dud

For those who dont know the group:

London Irish,Connacht,Dax/Albi*,Rugby Rovigo

*=Subject to confirmation by LNR/FFR

What you think lads?

And does anyone know whats up between Dax/Albi?Playoff?Match Fixing???!!!:D

il gatto

Albi may be getting relegated and therefore dumped out the the ECC due to "financial irregularities". If that does happen, Dax stay up. Albi have only been around the last year or so apparently. Some dodgy accountancy by the sound of it.
Whichever one they get, Connacht should beat them (should) home and probably away. Likewise with Rovigo. London Irish should win home and away against Connacht (should) but they might find it tough at the Sportsgrounds (I find it tough and that's sitting in the stands. And I'm a Connacht supporter:D). Could turn them over if they don't show their A game, even though after beating Newcastle Falcons last year, they'll know what to expect.

http://www.planet-rugby.com/Story/0,18259,3551_3589865,00.html

Abercrombie Dud

thanks for that actualy just found out the reason 10 mins before this!

[Jackass]

Seems like one of the slightly easier groups alright for Connacht. Hopefully they can get out of the groups this year and make some progress.

Pool tables are here.

Is it the 5 group winners and 3 best runners up that go through?

Abercrombie Dud

[Jackass] wrote: »

Is it the 5 group winners and 3 best runners up that go through?

yep which suits connacht very well provided they can get bonus points losing to london irish home and away,beating dax at home (we never play well in france.should be a tough test) and beating the italian team home and away!

EdgarAllenPoo

So they may actually have a chance at winning a few matches this season. Oh goody.

zAbbo

The worst team in the ML coming up against HC semi finalists, so a bonus point home & away might be a bit out of reach.

It will depend how quickly the new players can adapt, in Ian Ketley they probably have the 2nd best young fly half in Ireland (just below Sexton but above Niall O'Connor / Humphreys)

It's possible they can make a real dent next year.

conman78

Will prob play against Hickey for London Irish...Two former UCD Academy guys against each other would be a great reflection on 'COLLIDGE'

[Jackass]

zAbbo wrote: »

The worst team in the ML coming up against HC semi finalists, so a bonus point home & away might be a bit out of reach.

It will depend how quickly the new players can adapt, in Ian Ketley they probably have the 2nd best young fly half in Ireland (just below Sexton but above Niall O'Connor / Humphreys)

It's possible they can make a real dent next year.

That was a freak year in fairness...they're not really HEC semi-final material, far from it...5 of the top 7 ranking teams in Europe were all in a group together (plus the underranked clermont) so once you were out of the groups, with the exception of Munster and Tolouse, there was very little competition left. (I mean they only had to beat 3 teams in the entire competition - Perpingan, Dragons & Treviso - to get to the Semi-final...Ulster, or maybe EVEN connacht could have done that!!)

Having said that, they are a better side than Connacht, but I'd be hopefull they'd be able to pull of a losing BP at home maybe (Leinster & Munster both struggled there last year..it's a difficult place to play!)

Haven't seen much of Ketley, but I'm a big O'Connor fan, so he must be fairly good! Will be looking forward to seeing him!

zAbbo

Keatley was good enough to keep O'Conner on the bench during the u-20 grandslam team, and by all accounts was far better than Sexton at the Churchill Cup.

Zzippy

zAbbo wrote: »

The worst team in the ML coming up against HC semi finalists, so a bonus point home & away might be a bit out of reach.

A bonus point at home is definitely possible, Connacht usually play very well in ECC at home, but away could be a different story - lost 39-0 to Newcastle last year after beating them at home. They only beat Rovigo a few years ago by a point IIRC. Hopefully we can get the bonus points we need to progress. Off to buy my season ticket tomorrow!

Abercrombie Dud

Zzippy wrote: »

They only beat Rovigo a few years ago by a point IIRC.

Yea but it was lik 10 years ago!whats that gonna matter now???:p

i think even for our standards we've improved!

spursman

why are ye giving london irish so must credit theyre an average team if they where any good they would be in the h cup. i think connacht should be lookin for the win at home, the min. for any euro campaign should be 3 home wins.

il gatto

Um, they lost in the HC semi final against Toulouse and lost narrowly at that.

spursman

they also bearly beat viadana in italy

spursman

sorry just [FONT=&quot]realised it was saracens
[/FONT]

toomevara

spursman wrote: »

why are ye giving london irish so must credit theyre an average team if they where any good they would be in the h cup. i think connacht should be lookin for the win at home, the min. for any euro campaign should be 3 home wins.

Would disagree, Irish are a quality outfit who are extremely unlucky not to be in the HC next year. The only reason they're not is the ferocious competition for HC places in the prem'ship and the attritional nature of the competition.

They'll dispose of Connacht at home and away with ease...assuming they take the game/competition seriously and field a full strength team. I know they're concentrating on the Guinness first and foremost this year. Obviously they'll also have to accomodate and recalibrate to whoever they get in to replace Brian Smith who's heading for Twickenham but I don't see Connacht providing them with a serious challenge.

spursman

im not sayin london irish are rubbish there a decent side but there very beatable, to accept that connacht will get beaten before they even play means that mediocrity will always be tolerated.

toomevara

spursman wrote: »

that mediocrity will always be tolerated.

I'd love to see Connacht dining at the top table, but the inescapable fact is that they are an exceptionally poor team (for a whole host of reasons, well debated on here), playing a brand of rugby that should have died out with the onset of professionalism, as their performance in the magners and the Challenge cup this year fully bears out. I don't question or knock their commitment or the talent of some individual players but they're destined to prop up both the magners and challenge cup tables next year again I fear...

Stev_o

spursman wrote: »

im not sayin london irish are rubbish there a decent side but there very beatable, to accept that connacht will get beaten before they even play means that mediocrity will always be tolerated.

Because Connachts Magners and Challenge Cup result where that good they'd strike fear into a team that narrowly lost to Toulouse in the HC.:rolleyes:

spursman

its true connacht are not a great team at the moment mainly down to bradley however they have some good players and its a cup competition and on the day you have to go out believing you can win or whats the point

[Jackass]

London Irish aside, Connacht should be able to beat the likes of Dax and Rovigo.

Along with Dragons (and there's not much in it) they are amongst the 2 weakest teams in the ML, Dragons having been in the Semis of this competition the season before last, but you've got to remember, ML has the likes of Munster (European Champions), Ospreys (EDF champions) and teams littered with international players like Leinster and teams that have done well in HEC over recent years like Llanelli & Cardiff so it is a high quality league and is small in comparrison to Top 14 and is also of a much higher standard than the italian league, and these are low European qualifiers from those leagues, so Connacht have a good shout at 2nd and going through as one of the 3 from 5 highest runners up.

Anything against London Irish is a bonus imo, but they aren't as good a side as they are made out to be, just like Saracens aren't great but only narrowly lost to Munster, I wouldn't read too much into a once off performance.

Connacht aren't going to win the competition outright, but a Quarter final place isn't beyond them imo.

Zzippy

toomevara wrote: »

I'd love to see Connacht dining at the top table, but the inescapable fact is that they are an exceptionally poor team (for a whole host of reasons, well debated on here), playing a brand of rugby that should have died out with the onset of professionalism, as their performance in the magners and the Challenge cup this year fully bears out. I don't question or knock their commitment or the talent of some individual players but they're destined to prop up both the magners and challenge cup tables next year again I fear...

Sorry, but what brand of rugby are they playing that is so different to other teams in the ML? Sure, they haven't got the quality so they are not as good at what they do, but how is it so different to other teams? I've been to nearly all the home games this year and didn't notice other teams playing vastly different style of rugby, just mostly doing the basics better...

Abercrombie Dud

i think the style of rugby we play is very frustrating for fans and players alike.i think we should be sitting back more into the pocket and take touch because Gannon and Farley are good jumpers and are well capable of competing well at the lineout (ie.Munster game in SG vs DOC and D.Ryan).

but the signings of keatley and murphy might mean faster ball becoming available and giving more space and time to our centres,who often looked forced to be one dimensional and go route one into a litter of opposite jerseys,forcing turnover.

also i think the coaching needs to be freshend up with bradley moving on,due to inconsistent performances.

Does anyone know what the story is with the highlanders centre ta'auso?The G.Advertiser claimed he was set to join.....

toomevara

Zzippy wrote: »

I've been to nearly all the home games this year and didn't notice other teams playing vastly different style of rugby, just mostly doing the basics better...

Given that. I'd completely defer to your judgement, you've obviously seen Connacht in the flesh way more than me ( I rely on the few games I see in setanta/sky to form an opinion}, and are clearly a long suffering fan (much respect!).

And I'm not trying to knock Connacht, because as I've said the main reasons for their failure of late (and it is, imo, failure) are to be encountered off the pitch..there are lots of good rugby folk involved desperately trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

As for the style of rugby connacht play, from what I've seen, and again I realise its not a definitive judgement...it's always damage limitation from the get go. They lack any kind of a penetrative cutting edge in the backline, have a distinctly underpowered pack (the efforts of some talented individuals notwithstanding) and always look like theyve just met in the car park 30 mins before the game....

They leak tries like nobodies business, so defensively are frail...They're just way out of their depth and often look like an amateur team against a professional one, which in many ways is precisely (IRFU 'development team' guff aside) what they are...Having said all that Ulster were nearly as bad this year...(just neatly torpedo me own argument at the end there...go me)

zAbbo

I've always been impressed with Connacht when I've seen them both live and on TV. They really were a team lacking one or two bright sparks in the backline. Hopefully they blood Keatley at 10, as he has the potential to be an international fly half.

Adding Frank Murphy at 9, means that they now have a threat in the half backs that they've never had before.

Fionn Carr is also an incredibly highly rated centre who can double as a full back.

A backline like that will surely be able to challenge the lesser ML teams, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them sneak a win against the other provinces

The biggest change required for them, is to get rid of Bradley and bring in a coach capable of developing a team with low resources

toomevara

zAbbo wrote: »

The biggest change required for them, is to get rid of Bradley and bring in a coach capable of developing a team with low resources

Do you think that a genuinely competitive professional rugby outfit is sustainable in Connacht?I suppose what I'm trying to say is can any manager, however good, turn Connacht into contenders given the resources, support and squad available?

zAbbo

Contenders for what?

They only have to overtake Ulster or finish 3rd bottom to get a play-off game against an Italian team for the HCup.

Success breeds support

toomevara

zAbbo wrote: »

Contenders for what?

They only have to overtake Ulster or finish 3rd bottom to get a play-off game against an Italian team for the HCup.

Success breeds support

Good point, well made. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, what are the realistic benchmarks for success which Connacht should be aiming for? Were I a Connacht man I wouldn't be happy with a third from bottom finish or scrapping in the basement for crumbs from the big boys' table with an Italian team...

[Jackass]

If I was a Connacht supporter (in a non-way I kind of am, like many people, would be my second favourite team, rooting for the underdog etc.) I'd like to see Connacht be able to get to at least the QF of the European Challange Cup and target to finish ahead of Dragons & Glasgow (imo will be the 2 lowest ranked teams next year along with Connacht) for a HEC spot.

Part of me winces though at the thoughts of Connacht in a group with e.g. Wasps, Ospreys & Clermont for example.... :eek:

zAbbo

toomevara wrote: »

Good point, well made. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is, what are the realistic benchmarks for success which Connacht should be aiming for? Were I a Connacht man I wouldn't be happy with a third from bottom finish or scrapping in the basement for crumbs from the big boys' table with an Italian team...

Let's be realistic, Connacht need to produce realistic results.

Finishing above Ulster was a realisitic one, based on how Ulster imploded last year, I doubt Williams will allow the same to happen this year - but they are also rebuilding.

Finishing above Dragons & Glasgow, or above Ulster, or 1/4 of the ECC are realistic benchmarks of performance - something which Bradley seems incapable of producing.

It really is make or break this year, with talented homegrown players like JOC & Gaving Duffy playing, along with the younger talent of Fionn Carr & Ian Keatley - add in Frank Murphy and the potential is really there.

Robbo

Abercrombie Dud wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story is with the highlanders centre ta'auso?The G.Advertiser claimed he was set to join.....

It's usually on other matters that the Advertiser resorts to complete fabrications (more front page than back page) but I haven't heard a word on this fellow elsewhere. I heard a rumour about Keith Earls being signed on a 1 year deal but I reckon that's at least 85% bull****.

In other news, Mike Roberts has been signed as a winger. Anyone know much about him?

toomevara

zAbbo wrote: »

It really is make or break this year, with talented homegrown players like JOC & Gaving Duffy playing, along with the younger talent of Fionn Carr & Ian Keatley - add in Frank Murphy and the potential is really there.

I agree with that entirely..another season like last year's and something radical will have to be done. I for one sincerely hope that Connacht prove me utterly wrong and make a strong case for being taken seriously. I'd really like to see two mid-table finishes this year.

zAbbo

It would be great, but it's a huge ask.

Being realistic means looking to the season after this, as bringing in so many players with little experience (regardless of talent) is going to be difficult.

Add to the fact, you couldn't be sure if Ian Keatley (u20 grand slam out half) is even going to get playing...

It will be interesting, I don't think they have the resources to stretch a respectable showing in both ML & ECC - but here's hoping.

spursman

toomevara wrote: »

Do you think that a genuinely competitive professional rugby outfit is sustainable in Connacht?I suppose what I'm trying to say is can any manager, however good, turn Connacht into contenders given the resources, support and squad available?

with a good manager of course its possible just look at edinburgh plus dont forget connacht was had some good results under gatland and eos

il gatto

Connacht need to do alot more marketing. They're sales of jerseys and replica gear is probably less throughout Connact than Leinster or Munster stuff. Pity, because the Connacht stuff is nice.
They are located in Galway and seem to be insular from the rest of the province (even in Galway county). With rugby's profile being at it's highest point in the country, it's criminal that Connact Rugby has been so lax about cashing in as the other provinces have done. At this point they may as well call themselves "Galway Rugby" or "College Road Rugby". I know alot of rugby fans around Connact who's only affiliation with the club is through the internet. The marketing people need to get match reports into local papers and on local radio. They need to play a few games around the province so people realise that Connacht actually represent them. They should be giving merchandise away via radio and competitions. They currently do none of the above.
Success may breed support, but getting into the HEC would increase interest, money and experiance. It'd be a start to making up the ground with the top teams in the ML.
That's why Bradley has to go. He should be fired for the way he let this year's shot at HEC qualification go. All it would have taken is a few results and some determination.

Abercrombie Dud

il gatto wrote: »

They're sales of jerseys and replica gear is probably less throughout Connact than Leinster stuff..

actualy connacht last season sold around 7,500 jerseys while leinster marginly beat that tally.i was told by the CEO of Elverys.

Goodluck2me

conman78 wrote: »

Will prob play against Hickey for London Irish...Two former UCD Academy guys against each other would be a great reflection on 'COLLIDGE'

I presume your referring to Fionn? Ian K would make 3 UCD Acedemy players.
You play in UCD?

il gatto wrote: »

Connacht need to do alot more marketing. They're sales of jerseys and replica gear is probably less throughout Connact than Leinster or Munster stuff. Pity, because the Connacht stuff is nice.
They are located in Galway and seem to be insular from the rest of the province (even in Galway county). With rugby's profile being at it's highest point in the country, it's criminal that Connact Rugby has been so lax about cashing in as the other provinces have done. At this point they may as well call themselves "Galway Rugby" or "College Road Rugby". I know alot of rugby fans around Connact who's only affiliation with the club is through the internet. The marketing people need to get match reports into local papers and on local radio. They need to play a few games around the province so people realise that Connacht actually represent them. They should be giving merchandise away via radio and competitions. They currently do none of the above.
Success may breed support, but getting into the HEC would increase interest, money and experiance. It'd be a start to making up the ground with the top teams in the ML.
That's why Bradley has to go. He should be fired for the way he let this year's shot at HEC qualification go. All it would have taken is a few results and some determination.

Leinster have been really proactive in this area Ive noticed and their crowdsd have swelled as a result. When the leinster website first came out you needed to sign up with e-mail address to read it so now they e-mail a littl eanzine thing every week which keeps people intereted. something like thta, whilst cheap, is veyr effective.