NV scopes

ivanthehunter

Night Vision Scopes for hunting!
I'd like to own one, although they are very expensive they would be a massive aid when hunting after hours.

What scopes are currently available here in Ireland.?
It seems that Gen3 scopes sold in the USA are not sold for export but there are certain exemptions to some countries, some how the UK seems to come to mind.

When applying to the powers that be, How might one justify the need for such a device?

Also what do people know of the new digital versions?

Regards Ivanthe(night)hunter:D

Sparks

Remember that NV scopes require a licence for use in Ireland. From the firearms act, Section 1:

the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),

It wasn't me!

Another point is that they're very delicate and very easily destroyed.

Vegeta

I have seen some very impressive bits of kit used in the UK, Archer is one brand that springs to my mind.

There are so few things which can be hunted at night that I would think most folks would not spend the money on them.

Have never heard of one licensed so cant help you there. Maybe the ranger lads might have them though, if you were doing it on a professional level then you'd want the best gear.

CJhaughey

You posted this here
Have you forgotten?
The relevant legislation is here

chem

Had one. It was made by Dedal. Gen II+. Not worth the money TBH. No depth perseption as its an image on a flat screen. The only way they would be of real use is with a IR lamp. Plus mine packed in after a year so I demanded a refund. One thing I can say about them is, when you turned it to the sky on a stary night it was amazing the amount of stars you could see.

ivanthehunter

chem wrote: »

Had one. It was made by Dedal. Gen II+. Not worth the money TBH. No depth perseption as its an image on a flat screen. The only way they would be of real use is with a IR lamp. Plus mine packed in after a year so I demanded a refund. One thing I can say about them is, when you turned it to the sky on a stary night it was amazing the amount of stars you could see.

Can i take that you mean rifle scope? and if so how much bother was it to licence?

IRLConor

chem wrote: »

No depth perseption as its an image on a flat screen.

Wouldn't this be the case for all scopes/sights though? You're only using one eye so you don't get any depth perception, right? I know that there are some monocular elements to depth perception, but how many of them work at night/in poor light through a regular scope?

I know my depth perception degrades at night anyway, even using both eyes. Any time I played football at/after dusk as a kid it used to get much harder to judge where to kick the ball to.

ivanthehunter

CJhaughey wrote: »

You posted this here
Have you forgotten?
The relevant legislation is here

No i haven't forgotten anything CJ. That post never discussed the hoops that a person might have to jump through in order to satisfy the local boys in blue.

Sparks

No hoops. You just have to put your case to the local superintendent.

NoNameRanger

The Rangers have military spec head sets for chasing poachers. Do not use night scopes for shooting cos we're not allowed to shoot poachers yet:);), (waitng for an ammendment to the act on that one:D:D;)). Seriously though, they are of little use. Firstly you still need to use an infra red lamp with them and their only real use is for shooting lamp shy foxes. It is illegal to use them on a protected species.

Grizzly 45

If you have about 5k stirling to play around with.I can recommend the LongBow set up.A somthing like 6X12x50 scope with a Gen 2 monocular on the back,with a joint unit to allow the scope to be used both day and night.It is mil spec too.Trouble is,you would want a dedicated rifle to this system,as it is a time consuming process to set up properly.
There are cheaper options availabe here all right.I got to play around with one here last year.We had one mounted on asuppressed 22lr.What you pay for is what you get.It wasnt the best.The scope reduced the clarity of the NVG or vise versa,to a point that the X hairs were just discernable in the green glow.Unless you have an active IR lamp to boost the scopes capability,it is a pretty poor set up.Plus if you are doing anything naughty,shining an active IR light source is as good as shining a full blown search light to folks like No name Ranger.OTOH,he will be using the same technology as well,so you should be both able to meet/avoid each other with no bother:D:D
Gen 3 is freely available in the US over the counter,just not for export outside CONUS,ditto thermal scopse.IMO a much better concept,as they are immune to all the NVD failings.
Anyways,by and large unless you want to spend thousands for a so so system that you can use on a preset distance,I wouldnt bother .IF you do want a NVG system that is Legal to own here and works pretty well.Would suggest a NVG compatable Holo sight and a pair of NV goggles.It is what the US GI is using in Iraq,and it works well.

johngalway

NoNameRanger wrote: »

The Rangers have military spec head sets for chasing poachers. Do not use night scopes for shooting cos we're not allowed to shoot poachers yet:);), (waitng for an ammendment to the act on that one:D:D;)). Seriously though, they are of little use. Firstly you still need to use an infra red lamp with them and their only real use is for shooting lamp shy foxes. It is illegal to use them on a protected species.

*coughcough*

Been a while since we disagreed so here goes

Have a mate over in Englad, he's got a Starlight Archer. It's not a night scope, it's a night vision "add on" monocular to his existing scope. We spotted a fox out at 450 yards with it. He's shot many foxes using it, actualy he divides the cost of the unit per fox and now it's become more economical...

Stg£70 per fox I last heard lol...

If you've a lot of foxes, and a lot of muppet "snipers" who can't hit the broad side of a battle ship they're a lot of use. He uses a laser on his, not an IR lamp which aren't great anyhow. Foxes can also become "laser shy" in some cases.

Don't think you'd get granted permission for one here being just a regular shooter to be honest.

As far as I am aware, you can legally have a night vision unit which cannot be attached to a rifle scope. That's the important bit, not that is isn't attached to a scope, but that it actually can't be attached. I do believe there is also a legal problem with lasers and night vision here.

Grizzly 45

Yeah,great things one can do in the UK.How much is a fox bounty in Ireland anymore..Or is there one??
The Archer system is the cheaper version of the Long Bow concept,there are now a good half doz copies of this idea in varying prices and quality.
The system is legal over here as it is a two part unit,becomes liscensable when you put the two units together.But unless caught with the two units together in a working system,which is difficult to do as it comes apart with a twist of the wrist.
Lazers,again a good idea in theory,in practise not so brilliant.Either lost in too bright conditions,diffuse in the rain,fog,mist.Are a pain to mount on the gun or scope and then to get them both focused and alinged to the same point can cost a bushel full of spent ammo.I set mine up for snap shots on a rifle i had in the US.If the target was too close for scope useage,if you could get the beam onto fur,you were assured a hit.

IRLConor

johngalway wrote: »

As far as I am aware, you can legally have a night vision unit which cannot be attached to a rifle scope. That's the important bit, not that is isn't attached to a scope, but that it actually can't be attached. I do believe there is also a legal problem with lasers and night vision here.

The critical phrase is "designed to be fitted to". Lasers, light amplification or infra-red devices all count. They're under the same section of the Firearms Act(s) as moderators, so the same process presumably applies.

As far as the Wildlife Act goes, by my understanding they're treated the same as lamps. Anything you can't use a lamp on, you can't use night vision kit for. NoNameRanger, you'd understand the application of this law better than I, is that a correct interpretation of the laws as far as you know?

NoNameRanger

IRLConor wrote: »

As far as the Wildlife Act goes, by my understanding they're treated the same as lamps. Anything you can't use a lamp on, you can't use night vision kit for. NoNameRanger, you'd understand the application of this law better than I, is that a correct interpretation of the laws as far as you know?

Spot on!;)

johngalway wrote: »

*coughcough*

Been a while since we disagreed so here goes

Can't see any disagreement there John:D. I'm familar with the infra red laser used through the standard scope with NVG's, laser projects crosshairs onto target and is seen by NVG's, excellant system, no re-zeroing! But i'm hardly going to start ye tips on how to break the law:D.

Grizzly 45

[


.

I'm familar with the infra red laser used through the standard scope with NVG's

,
That would be a very rare piece of kit indeed here.:eek: Infra red laser is invisible totally to the naked eye,and in any weapons aiming device is still controlled under export liscenses etc.Have only ever seen one ,and that was about 15KDollars.

laser projects crosshairs onto target and is seen by NVG's, excellant system, no re-zeroing

Not quite.... lazer unless it has a gimmicky X hair projector, like those pointers with UFOs,I LUV U signs etc projects a "blob" of light onto the target.You are supposed to see it in your day scopes X hair and then fire.
Problems is as I found them.
Off set laser to sight.IE taking into account the height of the laser in it's mount over/beside the scope you have to adjust the laser to some extreme settings to get it to even be seen in the scope,and somtimes it wont have enough adjustment travel.The idea of getting laser,bullet and X hairs on one spot is ideal,but somtimes impossible to set up.
For it to work dead on IMO you would need the laser almost intregrated into the scope or NVG,IOW another restricted device here.
Getting this to print anyway on the black is hard work.Getting it dead zero and holding the zero ...well you are a better man than I.
Gave up and set it up for close in shots as I described.

Darkness;the projected beam looks bigger than it is thru either day/night scopes.It can really confuse you on distance to target.Plus it suffers from "pulse" in the NVG,so any tremor with the beam on makes it look all streakyIts not the best set up standing alone.You do need an active IR source to improve the quality of the scope,unless you can get restricted Gov LEO equipment.:cool: And that isnt that wonderous either at greater distances,unless you have a Leopard 2 tank:D

NoNameRanger

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[


. ,
That would be a very rare piece of kit indeed here.:eek: Infra red laser is invisible totally to the naked eye,and in any weapons aiming device is still controlled under export liscenses etc.Have only ever seen one ,and that was about 15KDollars.



Not quite.... lazer unless it has a gimmicky X hair projector, like those pointers with UFOs,I LUV U signs etc projects a "blob" of light onto the target.You are supposed to see it in your day scopes X hair and then fire.
Problems is as I found them.
Off set laser to sight.IE taking into account the height of the laser in it's mount over/beside the scope you have to adjust the laser to some extreme settings to get it to even be seen in the scope,and somtimes it wont have enough adjustment travel.The idea of getting laser,bullet and X hairs on one spot is ideal,but somtimes impossible to set up.
For it to work dead on IMO you would need the laser almost intregrated into the scope or NVG,IOW another restricted device here.
Getting this to print anyway on the black is hard work.Getting it dead zero and holding the zero ...well you are a better man than I.
Gave up and set it up for close in shots as I described.

Darkness;the projected beam looks bigger than it is thru either day/night scopes.It can really confuse you on distance to target.Plus it suffers from "pulse" in the NVG,so any tremor with the beam on makes it look all streakyIts not the best set up standing alone.You do need an active IR source to improve the quality of the scope,unless you can get restricted Gov LEO equipment.:cool: And that isnt that wonderous either at greater distances,unless you have a Leopard 2 tank:D

Listen here, i've used the system i've described from 10 meters out to 250 meters. It works!!!! You may not understand what i'm refering to. It is a simple system and it costs about €4000 to set up properly. Believe it if you like!!! Laser is shone through the scope, scope is set to lowest magnification 2.5 or less. Millitary spec NVG's and you will see the crosshairs of the scope on the target. I do not bullsh1t:D:D

thelurcher

Often thought of getting a NV monoculars - would be very handy for calling in a fox - turn on the main lamp when it's close enough and shoot or slip the lurcher.

Not insinuating that anyone here would be out poaching :rolleyes: but if you found yourself in a position where you thought some civil servant was scanning the land around you with their NV - a digital camera can show up the infra red beam from the lamp on it's screen.
Point your TV remote at one and press a button and you'll see it flash.

Grizzly 45

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Listen here, i've used the system i've described from 10 meters out to 250 meters. It works!!!! You may not understand what i'm refering to. It is a simple system and it costs about €4000 to set up properly. Believe it if you like!!! Laser is shone through the scope, scope is set to lowest magnification 2.5 or less. Millitary spec NVG's and you will see the crosshairs of the scope on the target. I do not bullsh1t:D:D

Then please enlighten me[no pun intended] :)a trade name,web page somthing like that.
4K is not exactly a simple system ,friend.Thats a chip of change in anyones books.You are starting to get into now thermal image scope prices.
So as I understand this you have a lazer beam projector firing thru a day scope?This projects the cross hair reticles onto the target at selectable variable distances?This is then picked up by a NVG?[Civvie or military WILL pick up both visible or infra red laser.]

Can I ask,how big is the X hair projection on the target at say,100meters?
As laser diffuses if it is not in a straight uninterrupted beam.Thats how we get laser shows and SF in night clubs.By putting a pattern over the laser beam,the further out the bigger the pattern.If that makes sense. Is this all incorporated into one unit or is the NVG seperate?
Not extracting the urine,just really curious as to this set up.:).
Sounds good,but it still falls foul of the act.In a telescopic sight projecting a light beam onto the target.

Grizzly 45

Not insinuating that anyone here would be out poaching :rolleyes: but if you found yourself in a position where you thought some civil servant was scanning the land around you with their NV - a digital camera can show up the infra red beam from the lamp on it's screen.
Point your TV remote at one and press a button and you'll see it flash

At room distances friend Lurcher.:) The TV remote gadjet has been used by us Spook types for about the last ten years.:D Great if you want to check a room for hidden CCTV cams.Trouble is you need one that flashes at differnt pulse speeds to detect some of the more crafty cams out there these days.
The big trouble with NV is the units power to "see" without a extra IR source.It's the same with normal light.You can see in the dark of night as there is still some ambient light.[Unless you are down a mine shaft or darkend room,but we generally dont hunt there:p]But you can see better with a torch.Now depending on your torchs strength you can see clearer and further than without.So just picture this without the torch,justusing IR technology.Your scope depending on its' gen and quality has got some light gathering capability.But it needs it's "torch" to see better.and thats the problem.If I am looking out for somone who has whats called Active Infra Red equipment.I will spot them by their torch beam,if I am using NV equipment as well.Thussly allowing me to avoid them as well as if they were shining a normal torch around the countryside. If they have Passive IR gear,somtimes generically called Starlight scopes.These devices take the ambient light and magnify it thousands of times to create the picture in the scope.They are better scopes for not being detected,but cannot "see" into really dark areas,like under a heavy tree canopy etc.They then need an active IR source to see better into the dark place,and then you have lost the advantage of the stealth of the starlight scope,if you suspect somone is looking for you.
All in all with the cheap equipment nowadays on the market,I wouldnt be surprised if both sides of the law are not using it.However it now comes down to which side understands the limits and strengths of their equipment to detect or avoid capture.Its the reasons modern armies are switching to thermal equipment,as the night scopes have pretty much had their day..or night?

thelurcher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

At room distances friend Lurcher.:)

That's a pity

I posted it on a few hunting forums a few years ago and a lad on there replied that he tried it out with a NV filter on his lamp and it showed up on his camera out in the field no bother - must have been bulls**t.
I've only ever used it indoors at short distances myself.

johngalway

NoNameRanger wrote: »

Can't see any disagreement there John:D. I'm familar with the infra red laser used through the standard scope with NVG's, laser projects crosshairs onto target and is seen by NVG's, excellant system, no re-zeroing! But i'm hardly going to start ye tips on how to break the law:D.

I was partly bored when I said disagree

The systems I've seen in action are the Yukon Digital Ranger and the Starlight Archer. I've seen Starlights Laser in action and a cheap knock off laser in action with both units. Both lasers were focusable, so you could have laser light in flood or spot for longer distances. Starlights laser was a hell of a sight better with both NV units.

I would say they are of a lot of use - to the right person. Say for shooting a place that has a large rabbit population causing damage. Or as I have mentioned before for lamp shy foxes. While not of particular use to myself with foxes as I'm not "minding" gunclub birds or protecting poultry farms I do see a distinct advantage in having NV for those who are. That said as long as they can licence it in their jurisdiction and justify the cost.

The Archer unit can be used as a monocular to scan around an area. Mount it to the scope and twist one dial for proper focus I believe and you're on for your shot. The Ranger unit can't be attached to the scope.

I've been sat out watching lampshy bunnies with the Digital Ranger for ages and not a bother on them. It's a different tactic that can be used in different situations. But, as usual, we're hamstrung with archaic laws.