Appealing for a retest.

Wurly

Hi folks. I did my driving test on the 3rd June and failed. When we went back to the test centre, I was convinced I had passed. The tester gave me an automatic grade 3 for not coming to a complete stop at a yield sign. There was no oncoming traffic whatsoever so I proceeded in accordance with the rules of the road. Also during the test, I asked the tester to repeat a command which I did not understand as he muttered it. He would not repeat it - in fact he just smiled and said nothing.

I have been getting weekly lessons for ISM for the past year which is how long i've been driving. I have done ten pre-tests and passed the last 7 of those. The marks against me in my real test have never once come up in my pre tests.

I called my instructor after the test and told him what happened. He was absolutely disgusted and he knew as well as I did that I did not deserve to have failed this test. He suggested that I make a complaint.

So I did. That evening, I emailed the RSA with my complaint. I tried to follow it up with a phonecall the next day but the number was continuously engaged. One week later, having not received a reply, I sent the email again asking for a response. This time I sent it to a second email address that I found on the net concerning driving tests. Neither email has bounced back so I know they delivered and they are the email addresses on the RSA website. I have been trying to call the number over and over again but it is still engaged all the time.

With me being off the road next week, I am so mad over this. I spent a considerable amount of time and money turning myself into a competent driver. It appears that once they got my test application fee from me, they now couldn't give a rats.

Anyone any advice on what I can do about this?

Thanks in advance,
Tri

Meathlass

Did you actually make a complete stop at the stop sign? Not a rolling forward slowing before you pull out stop, mind you! If you say you did and he says you didn't then I don't know how that would proceed but I'd imagine they'd take the testers word. If you didn't make a complete stop than that's an automatic fail.

dade

it was a yield sign not a stop sign. though i guess it is good practice to stop at yield signs for a second during your test.

MrPudding

I can understand a fail for not stopping at a stop sign but not a yeild. Can anyone confirm if this warrants a fail?

As for not repeating a direction, what a tw@t. It is not a navigation or "understanding a mumbling tw@t" test, it is a driving test.

I expect the best you can hope to get is a free re-test.

MrP

Stark

Was it a yield sign at a blind junction by any chance?

You could appeal on the basis that the tester refused to repeat a command. You won't actually change the result though, they'll just give you a free retest.

dudara

Forget email. Write everything down in a formal letter and send it via registered post.

We can't judge the "yield" sign thing here, and it will be his word against yours. You won't win on that count. But I do agree with you on the not repeating a direction. I did my test with SGS and the tester told me to make sure to get anything unclear repeated. His instructions were extremely clear.

Alanstrainor

dade wrote: »

it was a yield sign not a stop sign. though i guess it is good practice to stop at yield signs for a second during your test.

If it was a situation where by you could see in both directions and there was no cars, motorbikes or bicycles etc coming that would obstruct you, you would be expected to keep moving and not stop, stopping could incur a progress fault.
From what the OP says it sounds like the examiner was out of line, but it is very hard to determine if he was or not without knowing every detail of the route, situation etc.
As already stated the appeal will only get you another free test date.

Wurly

Alanstrainor wrote: »

If it was a situation where by you could see in both directions and there was no cars, motorbikes or bicycles etc coming that would obstruct you, you would be expected to keep moving and not stop, stopping could incur a progress fault.
From what the OP says it sounds like the examiner was out of line, but it is very hard to determine if he was or not without knowing every detail of the route, situation etc.
As already stated the appeal will only get you another free test date.

Yeah, it was a yield sign and not a blind junction. There was absolutely no cars coming but I did the cautionary thing and slowed right down and rolled on into first if you get me. I didn't actually stop though. Obviously, I had a good look around etc before I proceeded to turn.

What im hoping for is another free test. I know they cant change the outcome of the test.

I applied for another test on the day I failed so im hoping they will reimburse me as I applied online and paid the fee.

It's actually getting to talk to someone that's the problem. I'll take the advice on board of sending a letter. Not much else I can do, right?

Would it be worth writing to the dept of transport or just the RSA do you think? Or both, perhaps?

wil

Along with the other suggestions above, I suggest, if your instructor is willing, that he too put some comments in writing (on company headed paper) about his impression of your level of competency and add that with your letter.
They may take more heed if there is the backing of a fully qualified instructor to give weight to your complaint.

I am sure they get many complaints from people on a regular basis, but if you have an official instructor backing yours, it may stand out from the chancers simply trying it on.

Tri wrote: »

Yeah, it was a yield sign and not a blind junction. There was absolutely no cars coming but I did the cautionary thing and slowed right down and rolled on into first if you get me. I didn't actually stop though. Obviously, I had a good look around etc before I proceeded to turn.

What im hoping for is another free test. I know they cant change the outcome of the test.

I applied for another test on the day I failed so im hoping they will reimburse me as I applied online and paid the fee.

It's actually getting to talk to someone that's the problem. I'll take the advice on board of sending a letter. Not much else I can do, right?

Would it be worth writing to the dept of transport or just the RSA do you think? Or both, perhaps?

Wishbone Ash

You need to apply to your local District Court if you wish to be considered for a retest. I'm not sure of the ins and outs of that but if you give them a call I'm sure they will guide you.

From the detail you provide, it sounds like you have a good case.

dade wrote:

i guess it is good practice to stop at yield signs for a second during your test

Not at all. If that were the case then all YIELD signs would be replaced with STOP signs.

Our man in Havana

Yes, your only recourse is to the District court. Writing or calling the RSA is a waste of time. Section 33 subsection 6 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 details the procedure.

(6) ( a ) A person aggrieved by a decision under subsection (4) of this section may appeal to a Justice of the District Court having jurisdiction in the place in which such person ordinarily resides, and the Justice may either refuse the appeal or, if satisfied that the test was not properly conducted, direct that the applicant shall be given a further test.


( b ) A decision under this subsection of a Justice of the District Court shall be final and not appealable.

Advice from a solicitor may be required.

Wishbone Ash

Tri - even if you are going to appeal for a retest, apply again as normal for another test as it may be quicker than the appeal. It'll only cost you €38 - not the end of the world.

I know it's a point of principle but the appeal could be a very drawn out process and you may only be annoying yourself in the end.

Good luck.

Our man in Havana

Also a judge cannot award you a full licence, the most he can do is direct them to give you a free retest.

Wishbone Ash

..........with a different tester!

Our man in Havana

Would he know that you had taken a court action?

Just a thought, if the OP reapplied as normal, is there a fair chance of getting the same tester again? It happened to me. My heart dropped when I saw him.

Wurly

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Tri - even if you are going to appeal for a retest, apply again as normal for another test as it may be quicker than the appeal. It'll only cost you €38 - not the end of the world.

I know it's a point of principle but the appeal could be a very drawn out process and you may only be annoying yourself in the end.

Good luck.

Cheers. I re-applied on the day I failed. Its a pain in the arse being a prov driver for many many obvious reasons.

Can that happen that you'd get the same tester again after appealing? Id go mad. The man seriously was a complete and utter dick.

Our man in Havana

If you appeal thru the courts no, they have to assign a different tester. If you simply reapply thru the normal channels there is a slight chance you could get him again.

It happened to me 6 months after my first test. He passed me the 2nd time.

Wishbone Ash

Bond-007 wrote: »

if the OP reapplied as normal, is there a fair chance of getting the same tester again? It happened to me. My heart dropped when I saw him.

AFAIK, in so far as possible and assuming the applicant fills in the section asking where and when they did a previous test, they will endeavour to provide a different tester.

(This may be more difficult in the larger, less common categories.)

Re: after winning a District Court Appeal - I'm open to correction but I think these are usually conducted by a supervisor (i.e. the person who occasionally inspects examiners during tests).

Our man in Havana

I have never heard of anyone going down the appeal route before so I would not be aware of the procedures involved wrt the retesting.

When I did my repeat test some 11 years ago it was common enough for the same tester to be regularly in the same centres all the time. The might be assigned to 3 or 4 centres. I suppose in my case it was a coincidence that I got the same guy twice but in fairness to him he gave me a fair go and passed me. He did mention to me afterwards that he had remembered me from 6 months earlier.

Wurly

Ok cool. How long does the district court thing take?

Just, I sat my test 4 weeks ago. With the average time now being 8 weeks and all that......

Our man in Havana

To be honest we are heading into July and the courts don't sit in August, so I would say it won't be up until September at the earliest. The RSA are entitled to 21 days notice of the application. Depending on when the local court sits in July you could be lucky if it sits in the last week of the month you could in theory get it on for then. But the RSA could look for an adjournment if the tester in question is on holidays etc.

I would nearly say that you would get tested again before you can get it listed at the court.

Petrolium Hat

Tri wrote: »

One week later, having not received a reply, I sent the email again asking for a response. This time I sent it to a second email address that I found on the net concerning driving tests. Neither email has bounced back so I know they delivered and they are the email addresses on the RSA website. I have been trying to call the number over and over again but it is still engaged all the time.

Just because something doesn't bounce back doesn't mean it isn't delivered. Most sys admins worth their salt will remove bounce backs as an anti-spam measure. So you have no idea if they received anything. Besides that, emails are very easy to be "missed" and as already stated this is covered under statitory law so the RSA can't do anything for you. It's called seperation of powers, it's inshrined in the constitution. You have two options...

1. Seek legal advise and take your case to court.

2. Just re-take the test. Chalk it up to experience and pass the next time. In the grand scheme of things it's not worth your hassle follwoing this up. At best you'll just get a free retest. The test is subjective, he could argue that there was a car coming when you didnt stop at the yield sign, your word against his.

Our man in Havana

The test is subjective, he could argue that there was a car coming when you didnt stop at the yield sign, your word against his.

That is why you don't hear of many appeals to the courts.

JP Liz

Good Luck

Wurly

F*ck it. At this stage ill cut my losses. Quiet life and all that.

Thanks for the responses everyone.:)