Unfairly Banned From Driving...

adriansmith

I was convicted of dangerous driving in my opinion Very unfairly

What happend:

I was driving down a small road in a town that was being resurfaced, the road had just had the new tarmack layed and it looked like a brand new road just without the road markings,

I get to a blind corner and the road dips to where they scraped away the old tarmak, about 7" drop bearing in mind this is at 11pm in febuary on a blind corner so i didnt see the dip there was no signs at the drop to say that the road was dipping here, i hit the brakes and skidded, one of my wheels hit a raised man hole grid in the road and my car rolled over.

This happend in Feb 07 and it took well over a year of court appearences for the final verdict - Dangerous driving and a 12 month ban and 9 points

During the trial the key evidence was given by a crash investigator and he said on the stand, "I have not included reaction times in my calculations as i feel that from the point of contact with the manhole grid the defendant would have not been able to do anything to stop the accident from this point"

How could i have been driving dangerously if there was nothing i could have done?!?!?

There was no eye witnesses, and the crash investigator never went to the scene, he only looked at photos, the next day the road surfacing was completed before any evidence could have been taken by the police.

I feel that this is an unfair verdict.... Do you?
What can i do to reduce or remove my ban?

Any ideas or help would be greatly apreciated

Adrian

Hagar

If you were in a town I'm assuming you would have been driving below the 30mph ,or metric equivalent, hitting the brakes and skidding at that speed shouldn't be too serious, probably not serious enough to roll over a car.

Was speed a factor? What were the weather conditions like?

Ste.phen

I think you need to talk to a solicitor, anything people tell you here is likely to just be their opinion.
And as you say, there's no concrete evidence either way...

Dexterm99

Do you have any pictures of the road in question?

Can you share this accident black spot here. Again, a photo would be good.

http://www.gripes.ie/node/19

seamus

Although it does sound like you just got caught out, the standard mantra of conducting your driving in a manner befitting the road conditions probably comes into play.

I'm assuming that all the way through the town, there were signs indicating roadworks/resurfacing.

How could i have been driving dangerously if there was nothing i could have done?!?!?

The dangerous driving judgement was no doubt given because of your conduct up to that point. If you hadn't been driving at the speed you were, and if you had reacted appropriately to the hazard/road conditions, then you wouldn't have hit the manhole cover in the first place.

The judgement sounds pretty harsh, but you have to make a pretty big **** up to turn your vehicle over. Also, if you were clearly contesting the charge in court, the judge may have imposed a heavier penalty to drive the message home.

The fact that you still seem to think that you did nothing wrong that night says that there's no reason why this wouldn't happen again.

Ham'nd'egger

Without commenting on the aspects of the case, you have 14 days from conviction to appeal a driving ban so get back to your legals pretty quick regarding same. If they felt that the conviction is unsound, they would be lodging an appeal for the relevant grounds on your behalf already.

murphaph

Did you not have legal advice going into court OP?

Newly laid asphalt (especially solid mastic asphalt) can be very slippery and even more so when wet.

Nobody will really be able to say much more given we don't know what kind of signage was present or if it was correct but I'm willing to wager my house that the signage at the works most likely did not conform to the Traffic Signs Manual and if I were to appear before a judge for such a thing I'd have fully documented the scene with hundreds of photographs, marking each and every breach of the TSM regulations. I'd also have employed a suitably qualified engineer to measure the available friction of the road surface.

In a country where it is public knowledge that one can avoid penalty points for speeding on a technicality, it is quite easy to 'get off' many more offences under the Road Traffic Act(s). Get a decent solicitor asap!

adriansmith

The road was not actually in the town center it was a road that went round the side with houses on either side.
It had signs up for a few weeks before but not on the night that i went down, when i went back to look at the road the next day after being released from hospital the signs were on the pavement face down probably kicked down by kids as it was running parallel to a park.

It had been raining earlier that night but not at the time of the accident, but it was dark.

I did have legal representation during the trial and he (the solicitor) felt that it was a harsh verdict he thought that i would get driving with out due car and attention as to be convicted of dangerous driving you have to be seen as "driving far below the standard of a competent driver"
He thought i would get driving without due care and attention like i did.

I just wanted to know what other peoples opinions were. As this case has already cost me a LOT of money and i don't know weather to appeal or wait out the ban .... If other independent people feel that i was driving "dangerously" i wont carry on the case.

It was raining earlier that night but not at the time of the accident. But it was very dark and the road was not very well lighted.

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|64%20cottage%20lane#map=53.56768,-2.89386|18|4&loc=GB:53.56768:-2.89386:17|Cottage%20Lane,%20Ormskirk|Cottage%20Lane,%20Ormskirk%20and%20Skelmersdale,%20Ormskirk,%20Lancashire,%20England,%20L39%203

*Above* A link to a map of the scene the drop in the road was just after redgate on the corner.

My car was a Citroen C2 GT that was weight reduced a LOT it only weighed 780KG.

When i skidded on the cut away surface it was like driving on marbles so when i slamed onto the brakes the car didnt skid in a straight line due to it being on a corner and when one wheel (back left) hit the manhole grid that was 7" above the level of the road the car rolled instantly.

The road surfacing company continued with the work the next day so no pictures of the road in the condition of the accident could be took as i was in hospital till the next afternoon (No injury but just precaution).

I got my own independent investigator to check the results of the crash investigator and he came to the conclusion that there was not enough evidence of the exact scene to give an accurate prediction of what happened in the accident.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]Due to the fact that his calculations were only theoretical

e.g
He used calculations to work out the deceleration of the car on all 4 wheels and rolling but they don't have any statistics for an accident on a road in repair.
He was also only working from measurements and not actually from the scene itself.

All i want to know is if it is worth carrying on appealing against the verdict or if all of you think that i should just wait it out...

mrsconnolly

Think you need a solicitor - seems fairly harsh

jimmycrackcorm

i've a lot of sympathy with the op. Years ago i had a Citroen ax that was so light that it could barely keep straight on a road in any bad conditions. I think ao appeal with another solicitor can find enough weaknesses in the case to overturn the verdict.

murphaph

Given your second post I feel you were treated very harshly OP. Signage on the ground is as good as no signage at all so you can ahve a reasonable expectation not to encounter a 7" solid obstruction on the road just after a 7" drop. I'd document the scene as best you can and get a copy of (the old) chapter 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual (the new chapter 8 is online but no use as it was not in force) which can be ordered through your library (bigger libraries have copies on the shelves).

Simply illustrate what was present in the form of signage to warn of the hazard and then llustrate what should have been there. Was there any 3rd party injury/damage btw? It seems extra harsh if you only damaged your own property?

It's easy for us to say "appeal". I know how expensive legal proceedings are so I understand you coming on here looking for independent input but if it was me I'd appeal.

Edit: scratch the chapter 8 thing. I just clicked your map and realise you're in England. You need to consult a UK TSM. In fact your case should be even stronger there as it is a legal requirement (the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions) and not just a recommendation to sign roadworks in very specific ways. Good luck.

MarkR

What speed were you doing going around this blind corner? What was the posted speed limit for this stretch of road during / before construction?