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DART Fine - Can I get off?

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  • 26-06-2008 2:51pm
    #1
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭


    I got stung without a ticket around a month ago in town as I was alighting from the station. Basically I was in a huge hurry that I dashed through my station without paying and hopped on, only to remember there is no other way to get a ticket in this damn country (I used to buy them onboard in Oz) so I thought I would do the honest thing and not try to sneak past. Didn't work, they took my drivers license details (and said because I was honest they'll let me off :rolleyes:) and I yesterday a fine came in the post with the wrong first name. Do you think I could avoid it on this basis or is it worth the hassle?


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    #2
    penexpers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,038 ✭✭✭penexpers


    You were caught without a ticket. Do the decent thing and pay the fine.


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    #3
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I had been caught fair and square, actually I came clean about it myself first. What annoyed me though was the fact that they told me I wouldnt get a fine when I did. I was willing to pay the fine but they dicked me around now I am tempted to use their mistake against them


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    #4
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    WindSock wrote: »
    I got stung without a ticket around a month ago in town as I was alighting from the station. Basically I was in a huge hurry that I dashed through my station without paying and hopped on, only to remember there is no other way to get a ticket in this damn country (I used to buy them onboard in Oz) so I thought I would do the honest thing and not try to sneak past. Didn't work, they took my drivers license details (and said because I was honest they'll let me off :rolleyes:) and I yesterday a fine came in the post with the wrong first name. Do you think I could avoid it on this basis or is it worth the hassle?

    I often find the answer to being in a 'huge hurry' is to leave earlier. As well as that, Australian ticketing arrangements have little relevance in Ireland.

    Somebody else may know better but I would assume that challenging the fine could end up costing more than the fine itself. Probably better off just to take it on the chin, however annoying it is...


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    #5
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    WindSock wrote: »
    I had been caught fair and square, actually I came clean about it myself first. What annoyed me though was the fact that they told me I wouldnt get a fine when I did. I was willing to pay the fine but they dicked me around now I am tempted to use their mistake against them
    Ignore the matter and let it go to court, more than likely it will be thrown out over a technicality.


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    #6
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    WindSock wrote: »
    I got stung without a ticket around a month ago in town as I was alighting from the station. Basically I was in a huge hurry that I dashed through my station without paying and hopped on, only to remember there is no other way to get a ticket in this damn country (I used to buy them onboard in Oz) so I thought I would do the honest thing and not try to sneak past. Didn't work, they took my drivers license details (and said because I was honest they'll let me off :rolleyes:) and I yesterday a fine came in the post with the wrong first name. Do you think I could avoid it on this basis or is it worth the hassle?

    The letter you got today was probably an issue for a standard ticket charge and is not as such a criminal fine but a charge issued by Irish Rail to those who have no tickets. Irish Rail do have the legal right to issue same however so it does bear weight legally. You can choose not pay it if you so wish but bear in mind that it is a criminal offence to travel on public transport without a ticket punishable by a fine or a stint in prison and the accompanying criminal record that may follow you should you be found guilty. The cost for legals to defend you probably outweigh the fine and they have to be paid regardless.

    The fact that they have your drivers licence details does mean they know your details (even if it was issued to a wrong name, a court summons that is incorrect would be a different matter) and in all fairness, you don't have any excuse for what happened to warrant any defence in court. I'd say pay it and be done.


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    #7
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Ignore the matter and let it go to court, more than likely it will be thrown out over a technicality.

    So take a day off work/college and hire a solicitor to avoid paying a Dart fine?

    :D


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    #8
    Deadeyes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭Deadeyes


    I suppose technially you haven't been issued a fine, someone else with the same surname as you who lives at your address has got the fine. In courts people get off on technicalities for a lot less, particularly speeding and drink driving cases. However if you go that route I would imagine there is nothing to stop them from sending you another fine (maybe for more to be vindictive) with the correct name.
    As an aside can you no longer just pay the guy standing turnstiles?


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    #9
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    stovelid wrote: »
    I often find the answer to being in a 'huge hurry' is to leave earlier. As well as that, Australian ticketing arrangements have little relevance in Ireland.

    Somebody else may know better but I would assume that challenging the fine could end up costing more than the fine itself. Probably better off just to take it on the chin, however annoying it is...

    Yeah I have find that leaving earlier helps too :) but it was my first day of my new job and I got the train times mixed up. I could not afford to miss that particular Dart. I just thought that you could even buy a ticket at the other end for some reason. Well I may just have to write it off and put it down to experience. Still though, I am tempted to try the technicality because of the name thing.


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    #10
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Deadeyes wrote: »
    As an aside can you no longer just pay the guy standing turnstiles?

    This was never legal. You have to have a valid ticket before boarding. I know they allowed you do this but they were complicit in crime by allowing this.


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    #11
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    Deadeyes wrote: »
    I suppose technially you haven't been issued a fine, someone else with the same surname as you who lives at your address has got the fine. In courts people get off on technicalities for a lot less, particularly speeding and drink driving cases. However if you go that route I would imagine there is nothing to stop them from sending you another fine (maybe for more to be vindictive) with the correct name.
    As an aside can you no longer just pay the guy standing turnstiles?

    Some years ago, my aunt was issued with a speeding ticket with incorrect details on it. She took the view that it was invalid, received a summons and duly turned up in court and informed the judge that the details were incorrect and it was not applicable to her. The judge asked her name, address and if she owned the car in question; she said she did. He then told her that as she answered the summons, she was agreeing to it being accurate and fined her for speeding. A wasted day for her; she had to travel 150 odd miles to make the hearing but we still laugh at her about it :D

    My point is, it is not merely a matter of just ignoring a summons; a lot depends on the relevant judge hearing the case and your legal advice and position.


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    #12
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    WindSock wrote: »
    Still though, I am tempted to try the technicality because of the name thing.

    Could end up being an expensive bout of powah fighting over, what, a 40 or 50 quid fine?

    :)


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    #13
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I won't go down the Irish route of paying the fine and moaning just yet, I'll right them a polite letter first and see what happens.


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    #14
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    stovelid wrote: »
    So take a day off work/college and hire a solicitor to avoid paying a Dart fine?

    :D
    Its only a suggestion as this guy is determined not to cough up. :D


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    #15
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    How did it arrive? If by standard unregistered post then ignore it. If a second comes through, you'll know what it is due to the name. Pop it back in the post as not at this address. Problem solved.


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    #16
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    (I used to buy them onboard in Oz)

    There is only one form of transport (other than bus) in Oz that you can buy tickets on board and that's Melbourne trams. The reason is for this is that many 'stops on the tramway are not stations like on the LUAS - you alight on to the street - and there was nowhere to put ticket machines.

    Most Melbourne-onians complain about these ticket machines onboard as they are impossible to get to during rush hour and they take coins only.


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    #17
    dmeehan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    how much is the fine?


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    #18
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    This was never legal. You have to have a valid ticket before boarding. I know they allowed you do this but they were complicit in crime by allowing this.

    Not in all cases. My local station, Enfield, does not have a ticket office or ticket machine (I suppose we are lucky we even have a platform). Anyway, you have the option of buying the ticket on the train, or when you get off in Connolly.


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    #19
    Cathmandooo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    I got fined, eventually paid it and got a refund along with an apology from irish rail.

    If it happened me again personally I'd just pay the fine and leave it at that, unless of course there was a legitimate reason why I couldn't purchase a ticket.


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    #20
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    Not in all cases. My local station, Enfield, does not have a ticket office or ticket machine (I suppose we are lucky we even have a platform). Anyway, you have the option of buying the ticket on the train, or when you get off in Connolly.

    That's true, my bad. However it is only legal to do when you had no ability to buy a ticket, Broombridge falls into this category too. It is not legal if you are late or what not though, never was. :)


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    #21
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Cathooo wrote: »
    I got fined, eventually paid it and got a refund along with an apology from irish rail.

    Really? Do elaborate.


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    #22
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    WindSock wrote: »
    Basically I was in a huge hurry that I dashed through my station without paying and hopped on, only to remember there is no other way to get a ticket in this damn country (I used to buy them onboard in Oz) so I thought I would do the honest thing and not try to sneak past.

    I used to live in Sydney. I didn't see any way to buy a ticket on the train. Actually you can't get through the turnstiles to get on the train without putting in your ticket.


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    #23
    Cathmandooo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    Really? Do elaborate.

    It was a Tuesday morning after a Bank Holiday Monday, queue for the one manned ticket booth was very long, I queued until the train came along and boarded with the intention of purchasing my ticket afterwards as the week before you could purchase your ticket at the end of the journey in Pearse.

    Got fined in Pearse for no ticket when I asked could I pay. Got the letter in the post. I actually had 2 failed attempts at paying it as the fine office wasnt open :rolleyes: I couldn't understand why I couldn't just pay the men who you buy your tickets off and get a receipt. That angered me. I contacted all my local TD's to see what they had to say about the whole thing. In the meantime I paid it as my 21 days to pay (I think) was just up.

    My Labour TD sent numerous letters off to the head of Irish Rail saying they need to cater for commuters to purchase tickets easier and shouldn't be fining people who are looking to purchase a ticket. No joy on a refund though but at least they contacted me numerous times.

    Fianna Fail TD didn't seem to be doing much until one day I got an email saying my refund from Irish Rail will be in the post. After a few more letters to and from Irish Rail (there was no sign of a refund) I eventually got it in the post along with an apology from Irish Rail.

    Sorry that was much longer than I thought it would be.


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    #24
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    mickoneill30 wrote: »
    I used to live in Sydney. I didn't see any way to buy a ticket on the train. Actually you can't get through the turnstiles to get on the train without putting in your ticket.

    Yeah I was thinking back to Melbourne and the trams not trains. Don't know why i thought I'd be able to buy at the other end here. Fine is E50


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