Dogs Used by Gardai

Vas_Guy

Just out of interest has anyone seen any protection work demos done by the Gardai dog unit, or has anyone seen them in action on the street.

I'm interested in German Shepherds and the Gardai dog unit is a little heard of unit.

Also do the Airport Police still use dogs, I know they used to.

sunnyjim

There are plenty of dogs in the gardai, mostly culchie women :pac::D

The airport have dogs. There is a training ground for them around the grounds of the airport. Saw them training a few weeks ago, they're big dogs!

Dr_MaSoN

sunnyjim wrote: »

There are plenty of dogs in the gardai, mostly culchie women :pac::D

made me laugh

opti76

ya AGS uses german shepherds - general purpose,drug,explosive,tracking and cadaver

springer spaniel -drug ,explosive cadaver ,tracking

belgian malinois- extraction, destruction

labrador - drugs, explosive, cadaver.

Eru

They patrol Dublin city centre with the German sheppards inside the van. Only seen them taken out once during a mini riot (2 warring families). No one was bitten but they tend to make you think twice about fighting.

ojewriej

opti76 wrote: »

ya AGS uses german shepherds - general purpose,drug,explosive,tracking and cadaver

springer spaniel -drug ,explosive cadaver ,tracking

belgian malinois- extraction, destruction

labrador - drugs, explosive, cadaver.

What do you mean by extraction and destruction?

And how many dogs is there in total?

I was always wondering how does it work for dog handlers. Are you one for a long time, I mean, can the dog adapt if the handler changes often?

Fyr.Fytr

Speaking with a knowelege of customs dogs maybe ags differ.

But dog and handelers are partners 24/7, on and off duty.

Dogs wont work nearly half as well with a different handeler.

ojewriej

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Speaking with a knowelege of customs dogs maybe ags differ.

But dog and handelers are partners 24/7, on and off duty.

Dogs wont work nearly half as well with a different handeler.

So once you decide to be a dog handler, do you have to be one until the dog is gone? This doesn't make sense really i suppose - I imagine it just takes time to retrain the dog for a different handler?

Fyr.Fytr

Dogs are trained from pups with the handeler, they are used to the handelers way of giving commands, body language and actions of the handeler and the handeler can read the dog like a book.

Same way most dogs never really settle when re-homed, never the same as they were in the first place.

On average you get a 7 year working life out of the dog anyway, not that long, considering he does all the work

Vas_Guy

sunnyjim wrote: »

There are plenty of dogs in the gardai, mostly culchie women :pac::D

The airport have dogs. There is a training ground for them around the grounds of the airport. Saw them training a few weeks ago, they're big dogs!

The Irish German Shepherd Society also have a training ground there and tehy do schutzhund (protection dog) training there as well.

I never knew the Gardai used Belgian Shepherds as well. I've seen the K9 patrol van in town.

Here's a clip of mal in action used by a special police unit http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=LbD3qzMcJxA

Vikings

When I had my local with one of the sgt's in my station he asked what area I would like to get into and I said the Dog Unit - he basically said good luck! That it was such a small unit and that positions rarely open up in it, I think he said the figure 19 to me so in or around that many I would imagine.

accEb

I think it's rediculous... German Shepherd dogs are among the few dogs on the restricted/ dangerous dogs list... and as a result, there are so many restrictions put on the owners of these lovely creatures (i.e. muzzle in public, no under-16's can handle them, always leashed, can't own them if living in certain council estates, etc.) when really they don't deserve it... (it's usually not the dog that's nasty but the person who owns and neglects it). Also, because these dogs are on aforementioned list, technically to do the schutzhund (man work/ protection work/ bite work) with them is against the law (although some clubs have ways around that)... YET... the Gardai use these dogs in some of the abovementioned ways (and they have the Schutzhund training as well).

I'd like to know how this is justified... I'd also like to know how they justify even putting these dogs on any such list (especially compared to some of the other breeds on it) and why the huge restrictions on them... (sorry, I've gone off the track a bit... this is just something that really bugs me!)

Zambia

Woah there tiger

As for schutzhund I see no piont in the sport. Why spend hours training your Dog to chase and take down people when you don't ever intend to. I have met one guy who did it and he he was world class twat. His dog GS was far to nervous to even be considered for protection work.

K9 and schutzhund should be even mentioned in the same breadth.

accEb

Zambia232 wrote: »

Woah there tiger

As for schutzhund I see no piont in the sport. Why spend hours training your Dog to chase and take down people when you don't ever intend to. I have met one guy who did it and he he was world class twat. His dog GS was far to nervous to even be considered for protection work.

K9 and schutzhund should be even mentioned in the same breadth.

Hello Zambia,

I'm guessing you don't follow the GSD breed that closely?

German Shepherd dogs are part of the "working group" (originally used for herding but also used by organizations in search & rescue, etc.) The point of training a dog, a working dog, is to utilise the dog and have it doing what it is meant to. Work.

The dogs, if properly trained, treat their Schutzhund training as a sport or a game (they enjoy it - just as they enjoy catching a ball). These dogs are no more or less vicious than dogs without the training, again, if they are properly trained. Therein lies the problem - when people train their dogs in Schutzhund without knowing how to do it properly. This is how the GSD community ends up with bad labels (by the few egits out there who shouldn't own any dog, especially a German Shepherd).

In order to do Schutzhund a dog must be intelligent and must have drive/ motivation. Not all German Shepherds are up to a Schutzhund status. Also, Schuzthund isn't just about the bitework - it also incorporates agility and obedience (i.e. if you attended a show where dogs must have their working qualification, you would see that aside from the bite work tests they also do others, such as off lead work beside their owner/ trainer). These dogs, like others, must be able to sit, stay, come, etc. (which is ALL part of the Schutzhund... what's so dangerous about that?) In order to show dogs in Germany they must have this training and as Germany is the "mecca" for GSD lovers, that's what many of us aspire to, even in Ireland, especially if we want to show our dogs in Germany. Some people actually use GSDs for work (i.e. herding, tracking, etc.) and it's nice to know they have an intelligent dog with a good work ethic who is TRAINED to obey their commands. (A properly trained Schutzhund dog WILL stop whatever it is doing on command - that's where the obedience part of Schutzhund comes in).

Schutzhund isn't about training a dog to be dangerous; Schutzhund is about training a dog, full stop. We have a dog in our kennels who is of Schutzhund quality but who has never hurt a fly. We have children and we allow our children to play with all of our dogs, supervised. They also help to feed them, clean out their kennels, exercise and train them. The GSDs all love playing with the ball, getting a treat and a rub, etc. If we thought Schutzhund training was dangerous, or if we thought the dogs themselves were dangerous, we simply wouldn't do it or have them in our kennel. Full stop.

My whole point was that these dogs are unjustly on the dangerous/ restricted dogs list without due reason (other breeds are found to be much, much more aggressive than GSDs, but because of their size they have been unfairly labelled), YET the Gardai is still able to utilize these dogs and even train them in Schutzhund when no one else in the country is legally entitled to do so. This is where I have a problem. It is one law for one and another law for everyone else and it just doesn't make sense. Whether you agree with their being any point in training your GSD or not, how can you justify that some are allowed to do it by law and others are not, no matter how experience, how qualified and how responsible they are?

CharlieCroker

Dr_MaSoN wrote: »

made me laugh

You'd know better than most!!! ha ha ha ha ha

Zambia

accEb wrote: »

Hello Zambia,

I'm guessing you don't follow the GSD breed that closely?

German Shepherd dogs are part of the "working group" (originally used for herding but also used by organizations in search & rescue, etc.) The point of training a dog, a working dog, is to utilise the dog and have it doing what it is meant to. Work.

The dogs, if properly trained, treat their Schutzhund training as a sport or a game (they enjoy it - just as they enjoy catching a ball). These dogs are no more or less vicious than dogs without the training, again, if they are properly trained. Therein lies the problem - when people train their dogs in Schutzhund without knowing how to do it properly. This is how the GSD community ends up with bad labels (by the few egits out there who shouldn't own any dog, especially a German Shepherd).

True I dont follow that breed that closely. I actually agree with 90% of what you said the GSD is a working dog and should be worked and worked as much as possible. Especially in regards to the training and obedience you describe.

Is issue I have with Shutzhund is the actual training I have seen of dogs trained to take down running men. Why does a private citizen need a dog trained to this degree? A man running away from you is no threat to you so why have the ability to unlease a dog to bring him down. In essence its assault and a serious one at that.

Its sounds like you are a responsible dog owner why do you feel you should have a dog trained to this degree of violence? Never mind the legal implications if your dog did actually bite someone and it was discovered you trained your dog to do this.

In answer to your actual question though the reason that the Gardai can train dogs on bite work and that private citizens can not is the same way. Gardai can be trained to fire and carry handguns and private citizens cannot.

Here in Victoria the GSD only comes under the dangerous dogs act once it is trained to bite. It can only be trained to bite legally by the Police/Armed Forces or Licensed Security Operatives. As a result shutzhund is banned. The attempts to unbann it are actually blocked more by other GSD owners and associated clubs. As the state goverment looks to these bodies to advise them on how best to handle breeds.

I would be interested however in your views on the breeds actual diminishing lack of agression and suitablity for police K9 work? Its been said here that due to the constant breeding for show that the breed has suffered in the more agressive qualities needed for this type of work. So much so that in every 100 dogs inspected by a few trainers I know about 5 would be suitable and 1 very good. As a result we have seen a lot of imports of the Belgian Malnois.

accEb

accEb wrote: »

I think it's rediculous... German Shepherd dogs are among the few dogs on the restricted/ dangerous dogs list... and as a result, there are so many restrictions put on the owners of these lovely creatures (i.e. muzzle in public, no under-16's can handle them, always leashed, can't own them if living in certain council estates, etc.) when really they don't deserve it... (it's usually not the dog that's nasty but the person who owns and neglects it). Also, because these dogs are on aforementioned list, technically to do the schutzhund (man work/ protection work/ bite work) with them is against the law (although some clubs have ways around that)... YET... the Gardai use these dogs in some of the abovementioned ways (and they have the Schutzhund training as well).

I'd like to know how this is justified... I'd also like to know how they justify even putting these dogs on any such list (especially compared to some of the other breeds on it) and why the huge restrictions on them... (sorry, I've gone off the track a bit... this is just something that really bugs me!)

Did a thread from 2008 need to be dragged up for this point to be made? Is there not a more appropriate forum for this conversation?

cushtac

accEb wrote: »

I think it's rediculous... German Shepherd dogs are among the few dogs on the restricted/ dangerous dogs list... and as a result, there are so many restrictions put on the owners of these lovely creatures (i.e. muzzle in public, no under-16's can handle them, always leashed, can't own them if living in certain council estates, etc.) when really they don't deserve it... (it's usually not the dog that's nasty but the person who owns and neglects it). Also, because these dogs are on aforementioned list, technically to do the schutzhund (man work/ protection work/ bite work) with them is against the law (although some clubs have ways around that)... YET... the Gardai use these dogs in some of the abovementioned ways (and they have the Schutzhund training as well).

I'd like to know how this is justified... I'd also like to know how they justify even putting these dogs on any such list (especially compared to some of the other breeds on it) and why the huge restrictions on them... (sorry, I've gone off the track a bit... this is just something that really bugs me!)

Take it up with your local TD, the Gardaí don't make the law. And the Gardaí use dogs in the manner described above because the job requires it, just like the job requires Gardaí to carry batons & pepper spray.

petergfiffin

Had read in a few sources before that Kerry Blue Terriers had been used by AGS in the past (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Blue_Terrier#Temperament) Anybody know if this is true?

Ian Beale

petergfiffin wrote: »

Had read in a few sources before that Kerry Blue Terriers had been used by AGS in the past (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Blue_Terrier#Temperament) Anybody know if this is true?

You know its Halloween when the zombie threads come back up :pac:
Have a read of this link the Gardaí don't have the best of luck with those dogs:P.
They cost €3000 and they aren't exactly tough dogs, superintendents pet perhaps?:D

deadwood

Ian Beale wrote: »

Have a read of this link the Gardaí don't have the best of luck with those dogs:P.

Did the guard get "blocked"?:D