Blue signs, not a motorway, 100km/h speed limit

Carawaystick

Why?
given that the N2 dual carriageway is 120kmh limit most of the way, why are these new roads not opening as national roads with the 120 kmh limits?

Why are they using blue signs on a national road? could they not have gotten their asal into gear and re-classified the roads sooner, or is the "R" ecession so bad that a few new signs would break the country?

Amtmann

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why?
given that the N2 dual carriageway is 120kmh limit most of the way, why are these new roads not opening as national roads with the 120 kmh limits?

Why are they using blue signs on a national road? could they not have gotten their asal into gear and re-classified the roads sooner, or is the "R" ecession so bad that a few new signs would break the country?

It's a temporary cost saving measure. Let me explain. The new motorways are at the moment still technically High Quality Dual Carriageways. Blue signs have been erected in anticipation of the ministerial order (coming in the autumn) that will formally change their status from HQDC to Motorway.

Until that order is given, 100kph speed limits will apply to the HQDCs. But because everyone knows that they're actually motorways-to-be, the State isn't going to waste time putting up green signage. When the time comes - before the end of this year - the 100kph limit signs will be replaced by 120kph limits.

I have this information from an e-mail I received today from South Tipperary County Council in reference to the M8 (I reproduced the email on this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56334357#post56334357 ), and I am assuming that all local councils have this strategy in mind.

Don't worry; by December we'll have 120kph motorways, rather than 100kph HQDCs.

mackerski

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why?
given that the N2 dual carriageway is 120kmh limit most of the way, why are these new roads not opening as national roads with the 120 kmh limits?

You're right to point out that a non-motorway can have a 120 limit. To do this, the council needs to approve a bye-law (and, who knows, maybe some eejit would even debate it), which they would then need to revoke. Seems simple enough, but I imagine there's all kinds of paperwork for this stuff, so maybe that's why they don't bother.

I wish they would, though.

meathstevie

It's nonsense to replace the 100 km/h signs with 120 km/h ones. Everyone knows a motorway has this speedlimit. There only should be signs when there are differetiations of the limit.

Carawaystick

so furet, one set of signs are being replaced (100kmh -> 120kmh) which could be correct speedlimit on a national road; while the blue motorway signs which are completely incorrect to be used on a national road are not being replaced?




There are two different problems, the speedlimit is independent of the motorway status of the road.
I know of motorways with speedlimits of 50, 60, 80, 100 and 120 kmh (M4,M50) and national roads with exactly the same limits, (N2,N6)

MeathStevie, the limit is signposted at every entrance onto the road to tell drivers the limit that applies, as above the limit is not always 120 on a motorway.

E92

Why don't they just open these roads with a 120 km/h speed limit? Just cause it's not yet a Motorway doesn't for a second justify these roads being slapped with a 100 km/h limit, since they are legally allowed to be 120 km/h if the county council so wishes.

The sooner the Motorway orders come in the better either way though. Who thought allowing cyclists or tractors on a road designed for relatively high speeds was a good idea?

Amtmann

Carawaystick wrote: »

so furet, one set of signs are being replaced (100kmh -> 120kmh) which could be correct speedlimit on a national road; while the blue motorway signs which are completely incorrect to be used on a national road are not being replaced?




There are two different problems, the speedlimit is independent of the motorway status of the road.
I know of motorways with speedlimits of 50, 60, 80, 100 and 120 kmh (M4,M50) and national roads with exactly the same limits, (N2,N6)

MeathStevie, the limit is signposted at every entrance onto the road to tell drivers the limit that applies, as above the limit is not always 120 on a motorway.

I totally agree that the roads should be 120kph from the second they open. I was just trying to explain why the signage is blue when the roads are still technically 'N' designated (and so really should be green).

Chris_533976

They should be 120kmh N roads, that would make sense, but theres special orders to be applied for and its really not worth the effort. Everyone can read a blue sign and everyone can drive at 100kmh until it goes through.

icdg

The problem is that while speed limit signs are legally prescribed for, the only thing prescribed for in directional signage is that Irish langauge text **must** be in italics.

The old style directional signage (the cast-iron signs) were legally prescribed for as recently as 1962, but this signage design was never replaced in law with the new Warboys Committee-style designs, and the old signage design was only repealled in the late 1990s. The Warboys designs still haven't been prescribed for.

The Minister for the Environment has issued a Direction to road authorities (councils and the NRA) in the form of the Traffic Signs Manual 1996 which apart from the chapter on roadworks (which has been replaced) is still in force, but this isn't a law and road authorities have flouted it since the day it was published and even more so recently (for example, neither the Dodgey Gantries or the more recent style have ever form part of the TSM which prescribes that we use UK-style gantries).

Thus, its perfectly legal for blue signs and the letter "M" to be used on signage on all purpose roads, because no-one's ever passed a law saying that its illegal for them to do so.

Sean9015

meathstevie wrote: »

It's nonsense to replace the 100 km/h signs with 120 km/h ones. Everyone knows a motorway has this speedlimit. There only should be signs when there are differetiations of the limit.

They may know it, but they don't respect it..... If signs are there, it is one less excuse.

murphaph

With the price of fuel going the way it is, it might make more sense to tip along at 100! :eek: