Laser/Credit Card Surcharges

popebenny16

I have done a search and nothing shows up... so.

Many of my local shops have started to put up notices that purchases on Laser or Credit Cards will incur a small surcharge. In one shop it's 20c if buying under €10 worth of stuf, in others the amount you have to buy and the surcharge is different (eg €10 and 50c or €20 and 20c or €20 and 80c).

On what basis is this being done? Who can be complained to about it?

Sam Vimes

that's odd. i didn't think shops were charged for laser cards transactions like they are for credit card ones. i thought that was the reason that lidl only takes laser and not credit cards. hmmm

ScouseMouse

Shops are charged a percentage of the value if its a credit card and a flat fee of 15c if its a laser card. In my shop, we only take cards for 10 euro minimum and that excludes phone credit, lotto and cigs. A guy once tried to buy 20 john player off me with a credit card and I declined the sale.

If I make 8% on something and then loose whatever percent on the card, its not worth my while.

The shop is within its rights to do this. It is not unreasonable to request cash in these circumstances. If something is not worth a shops while, they will not do.

This is a sign of things of the times. Business is getting tighter and tighter, and any way of cutting costs must be looked at.

Legally, I believe it is legal, hey, its been happening for years with the airlines and travel agents.

Run_to_da_hills

Supermarkets that operate through the EFT (Electronic Fund Transfer) are benefiting by having less cash about for robberies etc. That is partly why many larger places accept Lazer and Visa without passing on the surcharge on to the customer. The same reason they will offer you cash back. This eliminates the risk on their staff and cuts down on security bills.

craichoe

Here in the Netherlands its common too.

You can use PIN (Maestro) if its over 10 euro for free.. if its under ten euro its 25c extra on the transaction.

Only large stores and restaurants/petrol stations takes Visa.

You can use ChipKnip for small transactions on your cards, its an electronic wallet on your ATM card that you load up with cash and pay without pin, basically the same as cash in electronic format.

antoinolachtnai

It also takes time at the counter to process the transaction, and this limits the amount of business the shopkeeper can do with the staff and space he has.

There is a proposal to ban surcharges. But this is not a great idea. You'd end up with there being a 50c transaction fee on all sales which would be waived for cash transactions.

craichoe, is the chipknip system commonly available/used in NL?

calex71

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It also takes time at the counter to process the transaction,

Not to mention annoys the people in the Q behind you, in my local tesco there is no sign but there is a €10 min. spend on lazer, the amount of times
over the last couple of weeks i've been stuck behind some one in the self service trying to buy one item with lazer and watch them feed the card into the machine over and over , in the last instance it was a chocolate bar, i felt like going up and saying heres 50c gtfo :mad:

I guess even if there was a sign these guys would still try and use the card.

Trampas

i thought i heard it somewhere that the government might be making a law that its illegal to pass on the surcharges onto the customer.

I could be wrong

Johnmb

I thought the credit card companies themselves had it in their terms and conditions that if you (i.e. the shop) want to receive credit card payments, you cannot add a surcharge on. They certainly don't encourage it, but I was sure they actively discouraged it in their T&Cs.

maps and atlas

Trampas wrote: »

i thought i heard it somewhere that the government might be making a law that its illegal to pass on the surcharges onto the customer.

It's perfectly legal. There was a plan by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to introduce legislation banning card surcharges but they withdrew the plan as such legislation would not be compatible with EU law. That was in early May 2008.

It is a pain in the ass if you're a card customer but then again why should cash customers effectively (and stealthily) subsidise card customers?

Interestingly, The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment have commissioned a survey of the public (which is currently taking place) to establish whether people would like to see 'handling / service charges' for concert tickets included in the advertised ticket price. Some ticket agents charge a handling / service fee online which is effectively a proxy for a card charge (as you can only pay by card online) in addition to the booking fee. Introducing such legislation to include these charges in ticket price would appear to run contrary to the EU law if these fees are deemed to be proxy card fees.

It's a pain in the ass to see a ticket advertised for sale at €25 including booking fee and then when you go online to buy it from some ticket sites it's € 28.35 - an extra € 3.35 in fees in addition to the € 2.50 or so booking fee just to buy online!

So if you want to complain to someone contact the DETE about that and you might be able to get them to revisit the idea of banning card surcharges, in general.

Spocker

Apparently this is legal and above board, so long as the same amount is charged, regardless of the card type (debit or credit)

consumerconnect.ie wrote:

So, for example, if it is possible to pay for goods in cash or by credit card, you cannot be charged more for paying by credit card. It will continue to be legal to impose a charge for payment by credit card if there is no alternative method of payment or if the charge applies to all methods of payment, but the price quoted must include such a charge.

Full link (see "may not charge consumers more"): -> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-rights/unfair-commercial-practices/

popebenny16

Thanks for the replies. What I find interesting is that superscout say that one the one hand the shop is charged 15c flat fee on laser. So, why are shops charging 50c or 80c? Also, my laser is not charged it (say, €10 15C for a €10 bill) so where does the charge go?

Also, why differenciate and say no tobacco, phone credit or cigarettes? Surely it dosnt matter what you're buying? Also, the minimum spend seems totally arbitrary.

As for Tesco, them and Dunnes seem to be able to process Laser in a second so I dont understand why you have to wait for ages for the shop next door to process it (and yes, I mean you the shops in Thurles Shopping Centre).

I just sind the entire thing to be a little loophole shops have found to get a few quid out of you. They've had laser for years, after all.

BC

popebenny16 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. What I find interesting is that superscout say that one the one hand the shop is charged 15c flat fee on laser. So, why are shops charging 50c or 80c? QUOTE]

Retailers can negotiate different rates with their credit card providers based on a number of factors including how likely fraud is to occur in their particular organisation. So while it might be a 15c flat fee for one retailer it might be 10c or 20c for another.

My company doesn't pass on the charge to customers. They are happy to accept the cost as they feel they are making savings elsewhere by getting credit & laser card payments.

Ian Beale

popebenny16 wrote: »

Also, the minimum spend seems totally arbitrary.


I just sind the entire thing to be a little loophole shops have found to get a few quid out of you. They've had laser for years, after all.

Factor in the cost to the retailer the monthly rental of the unit that takes the cards,paper,electricity and the % the bank takes out of each transaction they get a flat fee of €Xc depending on the type of card and then take a % too so say a person buys something for €100 and they take their flat fee and then say 2% so now the retailer loses out on €2 whereas paying by cash no surcharges and no profit loss.

The other week a man came into my shop and bought something at about 1 euro and he wanted to pay by credit card :rolleyes: and if a credit cards flat fee is 20-25c (I think its more i'll have to check my booklet) then I would have lost out on nearly 30c,doesn't seem like a whole lot but I actually would have only gained 5c,and even then that doesn't come close to covering the cost of the machine so i'd be literally giving the stuff away and still be losing money.

And anyone that complains about surcharge on cards go to an atm,its cheaper and faster.

ScouseMouse

popebenny16 wrote: »

Also, why differenciate and say no tobacco, phone credit or cigarettes? Surely it dosnt matter what you're buying?

Because a shop makes very very little on these items. The margins on these items are tiny so anything that reduces that margin is a definate NONO.

For example. A shop makes 6% on lotto. If a customer pays with a credit card, the shop makes practically nothing.

With seven and a half grand running expenses A WEEK, I dont think so.

jhegarty

popebenny16 wrote: »

So, why are shops charging 50c or 80c? Also, my laser is not charged it (say, €10 15C for a €10 bill) so where does the charge go?

It comes from the money the shop gets ... eg. your charged €10 , shop gets €9.85.....

ScouseMouse

My recent statement from the bank had a breakdown of money in - money out.

The difference between what was put through the machine, and what I got, was over 40 euro!

foggy_lad

it is going the same way that mobile phone top-ups went with some retailers charging €1.80-€2 extra for a €20 top-up. this is due to nothing more than the greed of many "poor" shopkeepers who want us to become accustomed to paying such surcharges which line their pockets!

oneweb

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is going the same way that mobile phone top-ups went with some retailers charging €1.80-€2 extra for a €20 top-up. this is due to nothing more than the greed of many "poor" shopkeepers who want us to become accustomed to paying such surcharges which line their pockets!

The unfortunate thing is that there are always going to be people who just pay whatever charges are there, and as long as that happens, extra charges will always exist and always increase.

I remember when I worked in a well-known catalogue shop, I came across a Visa or Mastercard document which had information on charges etc. I was annoyed to read that the shop gets more money for the same item from a cash-paying customer than a credit card-paying one, thus subsidising the cost of cc transactions.

I limit my card use to online or abroad but still, the fact I could have to pay yet another charge when I already pay €30 per year plus 20c per card transaction is awful!

As long as consumers are willing to pay for convenience, retailers will be more than willing to take as much of a cut as they can for the privilege.

Ian Beale

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is going the same way that mobile phone top-ups went with some retailers charging €1.80-€2 extra for a €20 top-up. this is due to nothing more than the greed of many "poor" shopkeepers who want us to become accustomed to paying such surcharges which line their pockets!

And why shouldn't we charge a surcharge for using cc's?It costs us a lot more for your convenience and eats into our time and profits then paying by cash,we have to keep every single transaction receipt for months and if we were to lose 1 and were requested to show it we'd be in serious trouble.

If you don't want to 'line their pockets' use 1 of the free standing machines that charge no extra for top ups or go to xtravision.As for the surcharge on anything other then top ups use cash there ya go no surcharge and less hassle for the shop.Shops don't legally have to take cards its a choice given to customers,if theres a surcharge added on well tough its a convenience for you not the shops.

ScouseMouse

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is going the same way that mobile phone top-ups went with some retailers charging €1.80-€2 extra for a €20 top-up. this is due to nothing more than the greed of many "poor" shopkeepers who want us to become accustomed to paying such surcharges which line their pockets!

While not intending to open up an old thread, the above comment really psss me off.

The phone companies used to pay me, a shop, 10%, appoximately. When I now charge someone a surcharge it is because I now get about 3-4 % margin.

Where has the rest gone ?

I'll give you a clue !

I dont have it so then who could have it.

The phone companies kept it for themselves at my expense.

So. I am not being greedy in surchargeing you, the customer, I am maintaining the status quo.