Checking motherboard for bad joins and components

Jackovarian

i was just wondring if anybody has a method for quick checking a motherboard for broken solder joins or damaged components?

im not looking for a lecture from people who say its a bad idea.

its not in warrenty, its gona have to be replaced anyway. so im guna have a look at least to see if i can spot the problem.

symptoms are boot issues, sometimes it hangs for ages prepost, but with all lights on, then it takes into post. sometimes it hangs after the windows load screen and resets. all boot issues. it causes windows to re-recognise the computer itself. acpi uniprocessor pc has just been re-installed.

anyways, not sure what component. i fixed it for a while before by messing around at the board. any ideas or tips for searching?

Ruu_Old

You could try stripping it down to just the hard drive and graphics card, see if it performs any differently. Then add other components one by one. Reseat the RAM and maybe grab another power unit if you have a spare or one you can borrow.

blackgold>>

Check if the heatsink on the cpu is loose, that can cause what your describing Look for bulging capacitors .
A multimeter would help you out loads aswell ytou can check broken connections i.e continuity with that

Anti

blackgold>> wrote: »

Check if the heatsink on the cpu is loose, that can cause what your describing Look for bulging capacitors .
A multimeter would help you out loads aswell ytou can check broken connections i.e continuity with that

Unless your involved in motherboard manufacturing or a wizz at electronics a multi meter wont help you out at all, as you'll just be testign random points. What ruu suggests it probebly the best idea. And also flash the bios as they can become corrupt.

blackgold>>

First off if the bios was corrupt it wouldn't boot.
Secondly it can help you fix problems ie capacitors resistors crystals ic's etc etc etc.

Anti

blackgold>> wrote: »

First off if the bios was corrupt it wouldn't boot.
Secondly it can help you fix problems ie capacitors resistors crystals ic's etc etc etc.

A bios will laod when corrupt, to a stage. And like i said in my above post. Unless the OP knows what he's doing a multimeter will be pointless to him.

blackgold>>

He asked the following.

method for quick checking a motherboard for broken solder joins or damaged components?

What would you suggest he use for that so?

A bios will laod when corrupt, to a stage.

To a stage? The bios will do some basic stuff and then before doing anything major check itself against a crc code and if iut fails it's not going to get as far as he said with his symptoms.

Shiny

blackgold>> wrote: »

He asked the following.

What would you suggest he use for that so?

I will tell you what he will use, fcuk all.

Motherboards have up to six layers of PCB's stacked on one
another. If the motherboard is damaged on one of the layers
in between then it cannot be fixed no matter how great you
are.

blackgold>>

Really? Do you think somehow these layers could be seperate?.
Do you even know what your talking about?

Jackovarian

hahahahaha, i didnt want top start world war 3! hehehe.

yeah, i understand how complex mobos are. i already stated that i need a new one.

the problem has been fixed again by myself last night by poking in the same area as before. the fix lasts for a while, or until the board heats up really well then cools.


interestingly, i didnt know that about heatsinks. would too little heatsink gel cause that?

(laptop mobo, didnt want it in laptop section as its the motherboard im focusing on, and im looking at it from a technical point of view, not a laptop point of view. so please dont move it mods.)

by poking the two power pins, which also connect above the battery slot, it seems to fix it. but if one of those pins were to come loose it shouldnt turn on. ive treid with and without battery, so im baffled.

ive been through tonnes of tests on a previous thread, as i thought it was the cmos battery. and i just changed it yesterday. the machine worked fine for a while and then started its freakouts.
its also being very strange now during operation. the mouse is sticking now and again, the machine itself is very slow.
anyway. would loose power pins cause this problem? the boot issues vary, but they are all repeats of previous ones.

ive done bios resets, flashes, jumpers, ram, hdd, dvd, battery. some aggrivate the problem or change its characteristics, but none the cause.

so, ive narrowed it down to a loose component on the board. and poking around the power pins area seems to give a temporary fix.

blackgold>>

Nah not ww3 it's just people don't know what there talking about
I've very little experience with laptops but ya overheating could cause that.
Your messing with pins i dunno what they are lol.
Hope someone can help you though.

Jackovarian

yeah, ahh there two pins on the centre top of the board beside the battery slot. a cable connects to them from the dc jack input.

i dunno.

blackgold>>

But if there to do with power then would't your laptop just power off when they come loose instead of giving you errors .
Just curious are you even getting into windows for a time?
Have you tried just loading the bios and staying in that and seeing if it reboots freezes etc

Jackovarian

i agree, if it was the power it shouldnt turn on.
im using it right now to type this!
its working fine today, coz i fiddled wiht it last night. and it will eventually boot into windows most days. sometimes it wont boot a few times and will come up a weird blue screen (not b.s.o.d.) and restart, other times i will get an error for a split second, sometimes ill get a blue screen with an error code on it. i checked that code and found no clue to what it was.

also, tried to reinstall windows th other day. it installed, and then began its final reboot where upon i recieved the message that the display driver did not initialise. that kept happening until i reinstalled windows again.

its a very strange situation. i wish i had a multimeter! the one thing i have noticed though is that after a boot failure windows reinstalls acpi uniprocessor pc. i.e. the machine itself. so, i think this may be the clue as to what it is.

the problems have changed from what they were when all this started by the way. originally they just made the machine hang during post, and or after post. but after a few weeks the porblems changed and now they only seem to occur duriong windows boot.

i thought i may be the ide controller, but it wouldnt casue some of the porblems.

Jackovarian

speedtyping is never a good idea... the state of some of that spelling!

blackgold>>

So it works for awhile atleast thats not too bad. I thught you were cripeled.God your computer is getting strange alright one thing i was thinkin about have you tried to disable acpi in the bios at all?

Jackovarian

cant, bios only has a few options. i was going to before with windows, but its a sony recovery version and i have no option to not install acpi during installation. ahh well.
the problem can occur pre post. the machine will hang there for ages doing nothing, then jump into life.

maybe a dying capacitor? it used to only be a cold boot problem, but now its indiscriminate of heat.

Shiny

blackgold>> wrote: »

Really? Do you think somehow these layers could be seperate?.
Do you even know what your talking about?

Motherboards have from 4 layers up to as many as 10 layers.

PS I'm am Electronic Engineer

blackgold>>

Thats a pitty you haven't many options .
I'd say your best bet since you tried everything is bring it to a technician atleast he can have a good look at it.
It could be anything.

blackgold>>

I will tell you what he will use, fcuk all.

Motherboards have up to six layers of PCB's stacked on one
another. If the motherboard is damaged on one of the layers
in between then it cannot be fixed no matter how great you
are.

Motherboards have from 4 layers up to as many as 10 layers.

PS I'm am Electronic Engineer

Haha I'm sure you are.

Shiny

Yep.
And that guy in your picture is "testing".
I dont see a soldering iron anywhere!

Jackovarian

yeah, i think it may be a good idea. how much do you think a repair would cost? thats if the place would even do it coz i know most wouldnt!

blackgold>>

Some guys have a no fix no fee policy. I'd say you could be looking at 20 quid before he looks at it and whatever then on top of that say another 30 or 40 thats assuming he fixes it.

Is it older than 3 years? (Warranty).

Jackovarian

3 years max. 2nd hand like. no warranty. got it thinkin i could fix it. ahh well.
its annoying coz it works most times, and its a deadly machine. Its one of those problems that cant be narrowed down because everything affects it!
the only certain fix ive found is fiddling with the board in that power area.

so... i dunno. yeah, ill have a look at places in laois to see who might be able to fix it. i have a feeling they will be lazy though and just try get a new motherboard for it.

blackgold>>

By the sounds of it you gace it a good shot at trying to fix it.
When you bring the laptop to a pc repair shop tell them you want a quote if and when they find the problem because some fellas will just fix it and then hand you a hefty bill.
I hope you get it sorted and hope they don't have to replace anything major.

Jackovarian

thanks for your help blackgold. yeah, its time to bring in the professionals!

Jackovarian

UPDATE

I was googling acpi and ways for turning it off, and i figured out that you can do it through control panel, although it does mess with some drivers and whatnot. anyway, i set the machine from acpi uniprocessor pc to just standard pc.

now, it even with driver updates and whatnot its not working like it would normally, like, it cant find wireless networks, its slightly slow, etc.

anyways, no boot issuse thus far. ive messed with the battery and cold starts and everything, and even this morning it boots fine.

so, obviously, the machine can no longer support acpi. for some strange reason.
the original problem happened just after post or pre post, then porgressed on to windows boot. which to me, meant it couldnt have been acpi as its implimented in windows not bios on this machine. at least, theres no options or mentions of any power control in the bios. Having said that, linux worked pretty well on it. only trouble i had was the keyboard usually doesnt work until you get into windows for some reason. it does sometimes, and i had linux on a dual boot. so i had to choose it each time.

Timeline:
1.Machine b.s.o.d.
2.Boot issues begin.
3.All hardware checked and double checked
boot issues change

4.different os's tried. no issue with linux (but couldnt properly test as i could only boot linux after a succesful boot with keyboard) different issues with differnt copies of windows.

5.blanked it again. tried for boot sector viruses and bios viruses.

6.reflashed bios up and down versions, changed the pattern and type of boot issues.

7.took machine apart to check cmos battery, powered battery to refresh it a small bit. pushed certain objects on the board. machine worked fine for 5 days.

8. same problems began again. thought it was s.p.3. update that fecked the machine this time as it was a new boot issue again.

9. tried new windows install, it installed but upon first reboot it said display driver didnt initialise. this kept happening until i reinstalled windows (current install)

10. new cmos battery installed. bit more poking.

11. fixed for day.

12. last night uninstalled acpi. works fine so far using checks that would usually cause boot problems.

in conclusion, a power surge or something must have messed up something on the board which has rendered the machine incapable of using any advanced power options.

i am now living in 1995.