I'm lost

LegacyUser

Hi everyone, I really hope someone can help me out here. I'm a little bit lost in life.

I'm 39 years old, male, married and have one young child, I absolutely adore and worship my wife and child, and have said in the past that if anything ever happened them, I would make sure they had a nice send off, then plan my own & follow them. I have a nice home & a not unreasonable sized mortgage (by today's standards). We own our car outright & the bills we have are just regular ones.

Four years ago I was working in a great company & was earning a decent living (about 40k a year). I liked what I did - network admin and it was generally untaxing & enjoyable. However a change of management, meant the one person I didn't get on with in the company (a middle manager) was promoted to be my direct manager, and within three months he had made my position redundant.

I secured a new job on about 10% higher money within about six weeks so all looked good, however the new company really had what I would class as ethical issues, I didn't agree with their sales techniques & although I wasn't in the sales department I couldn't reconcile myself working for them, so I left after six months. I left & went to work for myself (not in IT), and for two and a half years was doing quite well, unfortunately some family issues around that time (Grandmother passed away & my brother's marriage was in trouble), meant I took my eye off the ball & suddenly I wasn't doing so well, I ended up having to abandon working for myself but was lucky enough to get back into a small IT company paying me 40k a year, again, things didn't go the way I hoped & the company folded after I was there three months (I'm beginning to sound like a bit of a jinx). I applied for unemployment benefit, but because I was self employed, wasn't entitled to anything, so I took the first job that came along (sales) & I absolutely hate it. It pays 30k a year & I'm barely getting by. It's soul destroying, but I have no qualifications, no certification & no prospects. I think I'm going to get let go from this one too because my targets are not being met (or anything close to it).

I'm utterly lost & really think that I would be better off dead at this point. My mortgage would be paid off & my wife would get a six figure sum which would mean my child would be well looked after so at least I would have done something right, even if I wasn't around.

I recognize that I have a touch of depression here, but everyone always sees me as being upbeat & strong & that's the outward shell I have to put on. I really don't know what to do. I need to work, but even now, I'm supposed to be calling people setting up appointments & I can't bear to do it. One of the office staff just called & I let it ring out.

I'm applying for loads of IT jobs, but I think because I'm so old & so long out of the industry I'm not even being considered. What can I do ?

I feel a little better having typed this up, but I know the dark clouds will come back... If only I hadn't been made redundant by that bastard four years ago. My (working) life was so much better then.

RedXIV

A few things you should know that will brighten your outlook. I'm in the middle of an IT degree but every place i've applied for wants experience, not qualification. something you have, i don't. Experience counts for ten times more than a cert, and thats a fact.

Also, do you really think that a six figure sum is going to replace a father and a husband? have you ever heard the phrase, money can't buy happiness. Times are tough in your house, and that i understand but the option you're suggesting may end up causing more hassle than you realise. You say you're getting by, that's good, that means you can stay in your job until something better comes along. so devote your time to keeping your eyes open for jobs that would suit you. Consider teaching IT if there isn't a service nearby for extra cash.

But most importantly, remember your wedding vows. you swore to stick together for better and for worse. Time to prove you meant what you said on that day

Gone West

Lost In Life wrote: »

I'm utterly lost & really think that I would be better off dead at this point. My mortgage would be paid off & my wife would get a six figure sum which would mean my child would be well looked after so at least I would have done something right, even if I wasn't around.

From the start, where you said that you'd kill yourself (in not so many words) if your wife + kid died, alarm bells were ringing.
Then, considering how much money they would get, etc later on in your article made further bells go.

Get therapy. Thats all I can say to someone considering such a thing.

Sidenotes:
Also, don't top yourself just so your wife + kid will have some money, they will lose something more valuable, abiet a little less tangible.
Also, if you do, theres no guarantee that the insurance company won't cop it and refuse to pay out.

GirlInterrupted

OP, I'm pretty sure that to your wife and child you are priceless. Nobody would be better off without you.

You need to see your doctor and tell him/her that you have these thoughts. It doesn't matter if you are depressed because you can't cope, or you can't cope because you're depressed, you need help.

Don't let one more day go by without getting medical advice, then this will be the first day of things getting better for you. It all starts with that first step.

aye

could you not set up a small IT consultancy company?
lots of companies use to consultants for projects and they will look to experience more than a qualification.

if you nearly made a success of the business first time, whats stopping you making a success of it this time around.

impr0v

So you got unlucky a few times and made a few bad choice in terms of work, it's hardly the end of the world. You have a house and a car that you can sell/downsize if the worst comes to the worst; sure you'll lose some money but that's not the end of the world either.

You have a good family life which is far harder to fix than being in a job you don't like, so count your blessings and quit the apocalyptic reasoning you seem to be indulging in.

After you got unlucky with the guy's promotion and your subsequent redundancy, or even while you still had the job, you should have invested some time and money in becoming certified, i.e. getting some paper to back up your experience. If this is still possible, with your income and time then do it now, or at least investigate your options. Someone with a patchwork quilt cv sets off minor alarm bells with recruitment drones, so having some letters after your name should help muffle them.

You do need to think about ways to extract yourself from your current job, staying there will take too large a toll on your mental health and self-esteem, but think about it as a temporary inconvenience rather than your true position.

Perhaps consider emigrating to somewhere that will value your experience. It may not fit with your wife's plans, but I'm sure she'd rather that than a six-figure payout and a fatherless child.

There's a line in Sun Tzu's Art of War which says something along the lines of, and hopefully the purists will forgive me if my memory has butchered it; When you are surrounded and have no chance of success, have your men shave their heads, tell them all is lost, and charge out of your fortress at the enemy's position.

I've a feeling I butchered it, but the essential point is that men with nothing to lose can suddenly cast off the shackles of their situation, think freely and fight with a new-found vigour, inspired by nothing more than the new light in which they see themselves after shaving their heads.

MJOR

Hi Op,
I understand totally where you are coming from. Firstly killing yourself is not really an option... It's just a thought but not a valid solution.

I know that being unhappy in work is awful, sales can be tough and really you either love it or hate it.

Call into a recruitment agency and get some advice. You need to sell yourself big time!

Personally I have retrained and had to take a 10k drop in salary for the meantime but trust me its worth it if you can do something you like and you can climb the ladder again.

There is no assurance policy that can replace you, can teach your child to ride a bike, can make your partner feel loved or cherished. So please take stock of what you already have and stop living in the past. You need to focus on your future!

sunnyside

impr0v wrote: »

so count your blessings and quit the apocalyptic reasoning you seem to be indulging in.

.

That's not fair. The guy knows exactly what the blessings in his life are-he listed them in his post.

OP you have a lot of experience and sound very employable to me. Maybe you should try going back to being self employed, sounds like you were good at it and working for yourself would make you feel more motivated.

Please stick around for your wife and children, it's clear you love them very much. The money situation is causing problems but that's very unlikely to be long term. If you take your life that'll be forever. Give yourself another chance to fix things, you've done it before, you can do it again.

LegacyUser

op all is not lost!.... im coming form a spiritual perspective(not religious but spititual) when something goes 'wrong' like this we seem to think failure and disaster... from my own experience out of my darkeness came great light... i had an awful lot of traumatic things happen to me some things others would not come back from-i was sucidal and depressed too it was a very dark time for me... but looking back there was something working for my highest good,and i see this happening for you too....

maybe deep down you really wanted a change from your first job so all of these changes started to happen to you...your soul sounds like it wants more fullfillment,you just need to find a way of fullfilling that... easier said than done says you because you have bills to pay,but you do have options... would you do something like release some equity in your house to set up your own business,or try and find a business partner? what ever you choose you need to start seeing yourself in a more positive light and the way to start that is learning to accept yourself....

very often when things have happened in our past and we have been working and not really processing some of the inner feelings they get lost and re surface in moments of crisis.... so the things that happen dont really have anything to do with the obvious- because feeling sucidal has more to do with what is obvious in front of you and more to do with how you really feel about yourself...

this was where i did some therapy and it can be very effective to help get some perspective on your life and to see yourself in a more positive light...

another thing i did was to read up on some books helping with soul searching.. what i discovered was that the more you can invite gratitude into your life the better the world looks-it encourages you to see life very simply.... i just want to point out that i have completly healed from being on the brink of suicide,i have no depression anymore,i listened to my needs and i carried out what i needed and my whole life and world has changed...

all is definitly not lost you just have to get creative about your life and start making some changes for you.....

McGinty

I'm utterly lost & really think that I would be better off dead at this point. My mortgage would be paid off & my wife would get a six figure sum which would mean my child would be well looked after so at least I would have done something right, even if I wasn't around.

Before I respond to the main thrust of your post, I ask that you please don't kill yourself, I say this because my sister killed herself, there was no note and whilst we knew she was depressed and had some idea of her reasoning, we will never know for sure. I can say with certainty that your wife will not give a fig about a paid mortgage and your child would much rather her wonderful loving father than a financially secure future. I can empathise with your desperation being a job you hate and feeling under financial pressure, but at the end of the day money is money, people and loved ones are what matter. Your wife and child would be devasted if they lost you to suicide, I can also say that with certainty. Talk to your wife, lean on her I am sure she would desperately want to help you, isn't that what being with someone is all about, being there for the good times as well as the hard times. She is not looking for a superman, just an open and real husband.

As for your job situation, it sounds to me that you hate it with a passion, you have been unfortunate, but by no means are you old or out of the loop for an IT job, it sounds like you have lost your confidence and that is probably why you can't get a job you want at the moment. I was sacked from a job years ago (one that I loved and I was very depressed for a year) I applied for all types of jobs (even cleaning) and no one would employ me, I had crippling low self esteem and potential employers can sniff this. Eventually I did some voluntary work and a course in business admin and that boosted my confidence, I now go with the attitude that I have a huge amount to offer a company and they would be lucky to have me. Now I know that sounds a huge leap to make from feeling you can't get a job you want to 'they'd be lucky to have me' but is it possible to fake this attitude until it becomes real for you. I also feel if you spoke to your wife about your fears and concerns that your load will be eased and she will be glad to help, because I can be fairly confident that she will have sensed the change in you.

I hope some of this helps OP, please look after yourself and I really hope you get away from the crappy job. Hugs to you.

econ08

OP have a chat with your GP so you can sort out which feelings are being caused by adverse circumstances and which are being caused by what might be depression. A doctor could be very supportive in a time like this.

LegacyUser

First off I want to thank everybody. You've been very supportive apart from "improve" who was kinda supportive but I get where you're coming from

OK, so what happened? Well about 40 minutes after I posted that I was talking to my wife about visiting the doc that night (to get back blood test results), out of the blue she said to me, "you know you should maybe talk to him about how you've been feeling" (I honestly didn't know she knew how I was feeling, guess she knows me better than I thought), I asked her what she meant and she replied "I know you've been down about work & money & I understand you don't want to worry me so say it to him tonight..."... Honestly I was gobsmacked. I told her I would & we said our goodbyes etc.

I went to the doc that night, got my test results & he asked me if there was anything else so I said I wanted to talk to him about depression, so he sat back & I talked, and talked & he asked some questions & I talked & cried & talked some more.

He offered counseling and if I really felt I needed it, an anti-depressant, but warned me it's a six month commitment with fortnightly chats & checkup with him. I took the prescription off him & it's still sitting downstairs because I really don't feel like I need it now.

I'm after offloading & I think that's my issue, I don't offload, I keep it all in until I pop a valve & have a mini-meltdown. This has been going on the better part of a year without mentioning it to anyone.

As of today, I'm feeling great, I got a phone call off a mate of mine last night who told me that his place is recruiting & can I get him a CV ASAP. Another mate called & offered me a higher paying position in the same company as I'm in (subject to my current boss releasing me - don't really see that as an issue TBH). I made dinner for my beautiful, brilliant, sexy Wife last night & I played hide and seek for two hours with my child.

Thank you for listening & taking the time to reply. You should feel very good about yourselves (including improv)

Beruthiel

Lost In Life wrote: »

I asked her what she meant and she replied "I know you've been down about work & money & I understand you don't want to worry me so say it to him tonight..."... Honestly I was gobsmacked.

You cannot live with someone day in and day out without them knowing your every little mood. Women especially will pick up on that.

I'm after offloading & I think that's my issue, I don't offload, I keep it all in until I pop a valve & have a mini-meltdown. This has been going on the better part of a year without mentioning it to anyone.

Well, there's your problem right there then.
You have a wife, she's there for you, she's there to listen, she's there to help you work things out. She's there. Use her!
She would want you to include her and she would be upset to know that this has been going on so long in your head and you never said a word.

As of today, I'm feeling great, I got a phone call off a mate of mine last night who told me that his place is recruiting & can I get him a CV ASAP. Another mate called & offered me a higher paying position in the same company as I'm in (subject to my current boss releasing me - don't really see that as an issue TBH).

How things can change in a week!
Remember that the next time things seem bleak.
And remember also that there are people around you who will help in your time of need.

I made dinner for my beautiful, brilliant, sexy Wife last night & I played hide and seek for two hours with my child.

Keep up the good work

Good luck with the job interviews.

RedXIV

Great to hear that kind of result OP, best of luck in life and hope all goes well

allybhoy

Wow great story mate, glad things are starting to look a bit clearer. Chin up buddy because I think most of us get days like that but when you let it build up like that it can really feel like the world is against you.

Like you, I too am a systems\network administrator, the first thing I would say to you is try and get back into the field that you once enjoyed. Im sure that the fact that you are not currently enjoying the job that you are in is contributing to your depression. I totally understand that bills must be paid but at the end of the day Sales is only suitable to a certain type of person and really can be soul destroying if its not for you.

30k per annum is not really huge money for an IT position, so I couldnt see you having a problem securing a role that pays equally if not better. Eg:- Field service engineer. Trust me I dont think your age is working against you as most employers I know prefer somebody 30+ as they generally have more experience\common sense than 20 year old lads just fresh out of college with a degree. In fact some of the lads I work with in my job are 40+.

If you have gone for numerous positions and feel that you no longer possess enough knowledge of modern day technologies then you can try and update your skillset as you mentioned that you have little qualifications. Im sure you know that there are plenty of exams you can take that would be extremely beneficial towards your career, you can also study these at your own leisure and book an exam when you feel ready. The cost to sit most exams MCP\MCSA\CCNA\Server+\Network+ etc is roughly 200euro but it is definately worth it. Especially if you know these technologies inside out but havnt got anything other that references to prove it. If you have never studied for any of these before, dont worry, some of the less complicated exams A+\Net+ are relatively easy to obtain and can be studied at your own pace and in your own time. They will also act as a stepping stone to some of the more difficult exams like the CCNA.

Also if you would like some of the books or learning material ,practise exams etc for any of these exams send me a pm and I would gladly email\meet up with you and provide you with the above.

Anyhow Good luck!

Kernel32

I am glad to see you are starting to find your way again.

But I have to ask if anyone else is disturbed by the fact that a GP would prescribe an anti-depressant drug based on one chat with a patient? My mam's been on various anti-depressants for decades and any GP she has seen has handed them out like smarties. When I read about what that GP did it immediately jumped out at me how easy it is for someone to get into a situation where they can end up on them for extended periods of time.

Lost In Life wrote: »

He offered counseling and if I really felt I needed it, an anti-depressant, but warned me it's a six month commitment with fortnightly chats & checkup with him. I took the prescription off him & it's still sitting downstairs because I really don't feel like I need it now.

allybhoy

Yes id agree 100% with you Kernel, unless the GP knows the individual fairly well should he not at least be reccomending he see's a psychiatrist and gets an analysis from him before prescribing strong medication. Its pretty clear (IMO) from reading this that the OP doesnt need any form of medication just someone to talk\offload with, as after having a good long chat with his doctor he felt immediately better.

I am currently taking an anti smoking presribed drug (champix) that is meant to have mild anti deppressant side affects and I can really feel it throwing my moods at times. So much so that ive personally reduced my dose, I cant imagine what the stronger ones would be like.

impr0v

Lost In Life wrote: »

Thank you for listening & taking the time to reply. You should feel very good about yourselves (including improv)

You know I meant well!

Anyway, now that you're feeling better it's probably the time to make changes, in case the black dog comes back to your heel again.

Since the offloading, as you called it, made such a difference (though obviously the improved work prospects have also contributed) I think you should really consider the counseling that your doc talked about. It can be a great outlet to have someone just listen to you and provide you with constructive feedback, and it's definitely worth the time and money commitment.

Best of luck!

MJOR

I am thrilled for you! yipeeeeee..... Keep positive and everything else will fall into place!

silvine

Nice to read mate - fairplay.

sunnyside

OP I'm so glad your feeling happier again and I hope one of the new jobs you mentioned will work out for you.

Kernel32 wrote: »

But I have to ask if anyone else is disturbed by the fact that a GP would prescribe an anti-depressant drug based on one chat with a patient?.

I would say that's normal. What more do you expect the GP to do?

econ08

sunnyside wrote: »

OP I'm so glad your feeling happier again and I hope one of the new jobs you mentioned will work out for you.




I would say that's normal. What more do you expect the GP to do?

+1

That's how illnesses are diagnosed. The doctor examines the symptoms and if it matches the diagnostic criteria a diagnosis is made. What else would the doctor do? Become the patients best friend is it? The doctor didn't just hand out antidepressants. He said if the OP felt he really needed them he could have them but that the OP would have to commit to seeing the doctor every two weeks to be properly monitored. I think that is more than you could reasonable ask.

Contrary to common misperception doctors are not handing out antidepressants like smarties. Far from it. Research by Aware has shown that only one in three people with depression in Ireland are receiving medical treatment. This is consistent with international findings that doctors are underprescribing antidepressants and lithium to those who could benefit. Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison (leading international expert on mood disorders) writes in her book 'Night Fall Fast: Understanding Suicide":

"What is unequivoval, however, is that in every investigation of individuals who have committed suicide, researchers have demonstrated that depression has been underdiagnosed and antidepressants underprescribed. Even when antidepressants have been prescribed, they have been given at inadequate dosages or for too short a period of time for them to take effect. This gross undertreatment of depression is shown in the graph on the opposite page, a summary of seven American and European toxicology and autopsy investigations that calculated the percentage of depressed individuals actually taking antidepressants at the time they committed suicide (sorry I can't draw a graph on boards). The majority of patients had not been taking antidepressants at all, and far fewer still had been taking the theraputic amount. The undertreatment of depression is consistent with research showing that doctors in general woefully underprescribe antidepressants and lithium for patients who could benefit from them." (Pg 247)

sunnyside

econ08 wrote: »

+1

Contrary to common misperception doctors are not handing out antidepressants like smarties. Far from it. Research by Aware has shown that only one in three people with depression in Ireland are receiving medical treatment. This is consistent with international findings that doctors are underprescribing antidepressants and lithium to those who could benefit.
[/I].

Have to disagree a bit. I think doctors are very quick to write the prescriptions for anti-depressants because it's usually the only thing they can do to help and they are afraid that people could be suicidal. Doctors don't want to be blamed for people taking their own lives when medication might have helped.


The main reason only 1 in 3 depressed people are on medication is that they don't visit GP's to report the problem. Other people refuse to take the medication.

Anyway this is going off topic, hopefully the depression experienced by the OP was only a short term thing due to circumstances he's unhappy with. He has the option of taking the medication if he feels he needs it.