Depression (Medication V's ????)

Shortlock

HI there folks,
I have been suffering from depression for the last 18months and I just don't feel I am getting any better. I have suffered from it before and it cleared up after a number of months while taking various anti-depressants. This time however they don't seem to be working. I am currently taking Efexor, Zyprexa and Zimovane and have been taking my current dosage of them for 6 months. Is it time to start looking for help elsewhere? and if it is where can I go? AWARE don't have meetings in Limerick. I have tried councelling but to no effect. I am at my wits end, and any suggestions would be greatfully recieved.

Nevyn

Medication won't 'fix' you ( unless you are bi polar and even then it regulates).
It should provide you some abilty to be able to function better so that you can make the changes and start the processes to figure out and 'fix' yourself.

Have you tried finding a different cousellor to work with ?

Shortlock

I have been to two councellors, neither seemed to do anything for me, I just don't think I am a "touchy feely" type of person. The medication has certainly helped a bit in that I am sleeping more I am just not getting back to where I feel I should be.

ash xxx

Hi, really sorry to hear that you are down. I dont know much about the first two but are you on Zimovane to help you sleep? My doctor prescribed these to me and only had me on them a couple of weeks, she said the effect of them lessens once your body becomes used to them after the first month.

Shortlock

Thanks for the replies,
I know that medication isn't the be all and end all, the medication I am taking is the same (with the exception of the Zyprexa) that I was taking before.

The Zimovane is indeed to help me sleep, and I know I certainly do sleep better after I take it then if for some reason I don't.

The Black Oil

Regular exercise helps some people. Try not to get caught up on too many self-imposed 'shoulds' either.

Shortlock

I do try to get excersise when possible, not always easy given work etc. Saddly where I am working is a huge factor in how I am feeling, but if I don't go in I don't get paid. this has turned into a vicious circle... Work -> Feel worse -> not work -> no money -> feel worse etc.

I am looking for a new job, but saddly with my current outgoings I need to find one with a comparable salary to what I am on. Again not an easy task.

So I am again left in the situation regarding the medication. I do think that maybe it is time to change to something else, but that requires a period of "coming off" my current cocktail of medication and "weaning onto" my new ones, this could take up to six weeks to complete.

I am just stumped.

econ08

Shortlock, go back to your doctor and tell him/her you are not getting fully better on the medication you are on. He will most likely change your prescription. It takes time to find the right medication. You were very lucky you found the right medication so quickly the last time.

Talk to your doctor before you change your treatment. Counselling is only likely to work where there is a clear cut precipitating factor for your depression (E.g. Unemployment, bereavement, etc). Counselling is not a substitute for medication in the treatment of mood disorders.

Thaedydal wrote:

Medication won't 'fix' you ( unless you are bi polar and even then it regulates).

Thaedydal, precisely what point are you trying to make? Bipolar disorder and severe recurrent depression are biologically based illnesses which can be very effectively treated with medication. No drug can completely eradicate mood disorders, no more than any drug can eradicate diabetes. Would you prefer psychosurgery?

Thaedydal wrote:

It should provide you some ability to be able to function better so that you can make the changes and start the processes to figure out and 'fix' yourself.

No, there are different types of depression. Some people (a minority) get reactive depressions. They will be more upset in the evening time, have difficulty getting to sleep, have an obvious upset in their life, and will not have the more biological symptoms, such as loss of libido, fatigue etc. Their depressions tend to be of the milder variety. They can benefit from counselling.

However, for most people who get severely depressed it is primarily biological. There isn't any precipitating factor and there is nothing to figure out. Its simply a matter of taking the prescribed medication. Anyone with a clinical mood disorder will, by definition, be unable to 'fix' themselves. Also I don't know why you put 'fix' in inverted commas because the OP didn't use that word. Are you suggesting that a sufferer is taking the easy way out by taking medication and that he should 'work through' his 'issues'. Research has shown that unless there is some very obvious cause for the depression the sufferer would be wasting their time.

light123

Hi Sherlock,

Why don't you think about significantly reducing your outgoings and if you own a house renting it out completely and if you own a car that you are paying for every month sell it and get a cheap one.

Why all this? Because if you do this I would highly recomend leaving you job if that is the biggest cause of you depression. Solving this would help.

Your state of mind is a lot more important than some job and some outgoings.

Do this for yourself. I had a similar problem. The drugs didn't help and two GPs didn't really help either. I needed to solve the bigger problem myself.

Good luck with it all....

Shortlock

Thanks for the advice Light. It is something I am looking into alright. Saddly not as easily done as it sounds.

econ08

light123 wrote: »

Hi Sherlock,

Why don't you think about significantly reducing your outgoings and if you own a house renting it out completely and if you own a car that you are paying for every month sell it and get a cheap one.

Why all this? Because if you do this I would highly recomend leaving you job if that is the biggest cause of you depression. Solving this would help.

Your state of mind is a lot more important than some job and some outgoings.

Do this for yourself. I had a similar problem. The drugs didn't help and two GPs didn't really help either. I needed to solve the bigger problem myself.

Good luck with it all....

Before leaving your job you should find another job first. Unless you are happy to be unemployed for a while. Either way I think you should talk to your doctor about it first.

Your job may not be the cause of your depression. All work seems dull and boring when you're depressed. Your attitude to your work could change when your mood lifts.

Shortlock

Thanks Econ,
For sure I could not afford to leave my current job without having another one in the pipeline. That would just make a bad situation even worse.

I have made an appointment for later this week to see the psychiatrist and I will discuss my options regarding the medication at that time.

light123

Hi,

Of course it's not easy, if it would have been you would have quit ages ago and not have got depressed, things like this are always hard, very fec king hard, I know.

Anyway good luck with it all. This will take time. Don't worry about not working for say a month as you may need the time to chill out. But things might work out differently and you might land on your feet and be able to turn this around. Don't ever ever ever think this is too big a problem or you can't handle this, do this one step at a time and it should work out.

Always have good rest every day and good food / meal every day. Reduce your alcohol intake and go for walks as much as you can, especially at the weekend. Talk to as many people as possible especially family.

Mad or silly as it might sound read books like the power of positive thinking or popular psychology books like this. Why? Because other people have gone through the same stuff you are going through now. Also these books should reenforce the idea that this is not your fault and help you think a little outside of your situation. If you don't like books like these, no bother.
Anyway try also to find thinks that make you feel positive even if its playing with toys.

Anyway enough for now...

LegacyUser

Hi OP,
It might be useful to try a few different councellors before you find the right one, I know from my own experience, it took me three until I found one that suited me. I thought all counsellors were the same so it put me right off, but when you find the right one it actually seems to work very well, I disliked the thought of councelling so much that I never thought I'd actually be recommending it as a way to go!
I'm sorry for your situation, do go to your GP and explain that you don't feel the medication is working, maybe you can try something else? I probably wouldn't recommend coming off of the tablets altogether because you might hit a bad low then. But what I would recommend is to try and start looking for help elsewhere to go along with the medication.
Unfortunately if there is an underlying problem, it is not going to go away with medication alone, so you're going to need to face it and deal with it straight on, or the depression is just going to come back in cycles. Depression might be classed as mild mental illness, but it is just the body's way of telling you that there is a problem here that needs to be dealt with. It might even go away, and then come back all of a sudden, leaving you more down than before because the medication no longer seems to be 'working'. I'm speaking from my own experience on this one, it was one of the reasons that I avoided councelling for so long.
If you really feel like councelling is not the way to go for you, another thing you could try is Reiki. Be aware that there are frauds out there, and people just in it for the money, as it goes with all of these professions, so it might take you a while to find someone that's right for you again. But I would fully recommend Reiki, it has helped me immensely to get to a point where I could actually start dealing with and talking about what was causing my depression. Basically it's a non-invasive treatment, where the therapist places their hands on or over your body. It helps to shift energy blockages, blocked emotions, speeds up the healing process, but only when you're ready. You know you've found a good Reiki therapist when they go over the allotted time-slot with you, or they're intuitive and are able to pick up specifically where you may be blocked. It might not be for everyone, I know from my own experience I was very sceptical at first, but it has helped to make such a massive change in my life, I'd always recommend it.
A book that may be helpful for you is "Depression: An Emotion not a Disease" by Michael Corry and Aine Tubridy. It gives down to earth guidelines of how to cope with depression, and ways to help treat it, what can cause it, etc.
Good luck OP, please don't despair, there is help out there if you look for it, and you will come out of this.

econ08

Treeme wrote: »

Hi OP,
It might be useful to try a few different councellors before you find the right one, I know from my own experience, it took me three until I found one that suited me. I thought all counsellors were the same so it put me right off, but when you find the right one it actually seems to work very well, I disliked the thought of councelling so much that I never thought I'd actually be recommending it as a way to go!
I'm sorry for your situation, do go to your GP and explain that you don't feel the medication is working, maybe you can try something else? I probably wouldn't recommend coming off of the tablets altogether because you might hit a bad low then. But what I would recommend is to try and start looking for help elsewhere to go along with the medication.
Unfortunately if there is an underlying problem, it is not going to go away with medication alone, so you're going to need to face it and deal with it straight on, or the depression is just going to come back in cycles. Depression might be classed as mild mental illness, but it is just the body's way of telling you that there is a problem here that needs to be dealt with. It might even go away, and then come back all of a sudden, leaving you more down than before because the medication no longer seems to be 'working'. I'm speaking from my own experience on this one, it was one of the reasons that I avoided councelling for so long.
If you really feel like councelling is not the way to go for you, another thing you could try is Reiki. Be aware that there are frauds out there, and people just in it for the money, as it goes with all of these professions, so it might take you a while to find someone that's right for you again. But I would fully recommend Reiki, it has helped me immensely to get to a point where I could actually start dealing with and talking about what was causing my depression. Basically it's a non-invasive treatment, where the therapist places their hands on or over your body. It helps to shift energy blockages, blocked emotions, speeds up the healing process, but only when you're ready. You know you've found a good Reiki therapist when they go over the allotted time-slot with you, or they're intuitive and are able to pick up specifically where you may be blocked. It might not be for everyone, I know from my own experience I was very sceptical at first, but it has helped to make such a massive change in my life, I'd always recommend it.
A book that may be helpful for you is "Depression: An Emotion not a Disease" by Michael Corry and Aine Tubridy. It gives down to earth guidelines of how to cope with depression, and ways to help treat it, what can cause it, etc.
Good luck OP, please don't despair, there is help out there if you look for it, and you will come out of this.

I totally disagree with this post. "Depression might be classed as mild mental illness, but it is just the body's way of telling you that there is a problem here that needs to be dealt with." No. Depression can be mild, moderate or severe. People with severe depression can hear voices telling them to kill themselves or can become catatonic. Depression is not the body's way of telling you there is a problem - its a disease, pure and simple.

Are you suggesting that people who are incapacitated with depression and receive disability payments from the State are not actually ill? Should the State stop their benefits? Should hospitals refuse to treat them? Either they are ill or they are not. Which is it?

Do not read Dr. Corry's book, its unhelpful.

As for Reiki, there is no evidence to say it helps with depression. The likelihood is that you would hand over your money and not feel any better, certainly not in the medium to long-run.

JuliusCaesar

econ08 wrote: »

Depression can be mild, moderate or severe. People with severe depression can hear voices telling them to kill themselves or can become catatonic. Depression is ... a disease, pure and simple.

<SNIP>

I disagree with econ08's post - <SNIP>

For objective evidence on the treatment of depression, go to the National Institute of Clinical Excellence's guidelines:

http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/index.jsp?action=byID&o=10958

LegacyUser

Excuse me, econ, but I've been going to Reiki for a long time, have you ever actually tried it? It has helped me immensely. If it is of no help, why are hospitals increasingly employing Reiki practioners these days for complimentary treatment these days? There has been countless research projects in this subject area, even using it as a placebo has proved to have positive effects on patients. I wouldn't recommend giving your opinion so freely on something you've obviously never actually tried.
I have to say I actually disagree with almost everything you say. Classifying it as a disease, just means there is no hope. The one thing that has united all of the counsellors that I've been to see, and they were all psychotherapists, is that they all agreed that medication is not the only way of helping to alleviate the symptoms of depression, and all forms of depression are fundamentally linked to some sort of deep-set trauma in the system, ranging from schitzophrenia, bi-polar disorder, the list goes on. Simple as that. The OP has just said that the medication is no longer working for him and that he's looking for alternative help. I gave him suggestions as to what has helped me, actually helped me, not numbed me. Thanks to Reiki, and only recently, councelling, I feel like I can actually overcome the depression, and continue on with my life, do what I want to do, and feel good about myself again.
It took me several years to actually accept that I had depression, but it is not a disease. It is a problem that can be overcome. And I wish the OP the very best of luck in finding something that works for him/her. Obviously take everything with a pinch of salt, and do your own research, see what works for you, but something will come up in all of this.

Shortlock

Thanks all for your posts, I wasn't trying to stirr up anything by my initial post. I was just looking for (and got) some usefull opinions. Just the act of sitting down and typing out my problems and thoughts helped me reach the decision to go to the doctor again. I hope this might help.

Thanks again all.

econ08

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I disagree with econ08's post - it's opinionated, libellous and unhelpful.

For objective evidence on the treatment of depression, go to the National Institute of Clinical Excellence's guidelines:

http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/index.jsp?action=byID&o=10958

This is a quote from Dr Corry's book Going Mad, co-written with Aine Tubridy, he states that "medicine is on the threshold of an expansion from a mind-body focus to embrace the dimension of spirit. An increasing knowledge of the chakra system, the influence of past life experiences and the place for distant healing is evidence that that expansion has begun" (pg 140).

He states that "[the chakra system] is where karmic imprints are stored from previous lives".

He states (in the same book) that "symptoms at whatever level - be it mind, body or spirit - can be traced to the chakra system, whether it be a heart attack, cancer or a schizophrenic state" (pp. 136-137).

The chakra system is an imagined energy system for which there is no objective evidence. Dr Corry's interpretations of serious conditions such as endogenous depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder are esoteric and without scientific foundation. His symptom logic includes the attribution of cause to episodes occurring in past lives.

Enough said.

As for Reiki:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1742-1241.2008.01729.x

econ08

Treeme wrote: »

Excuse me, econ, but I've been going to Reiki for a long time, have you ever actually tried it? It has helped me immensely. If it is of no help, why are hospitals increasingly employing Reiki practioners these days for complimentary treatment these days? There has been countless research projects in this subject area, even using it as a placebo has proved to have positive effects on patients. I wouldn't recommend giving your opinion so freely on something you've obviously never actually tried.

Look I'm not denying Reiki or yoga or any other complimentary treatment can improve patients lives. But you go on to say something different: "all forms of depression are fundamentally linked to some sort of deep-set trauma in the system". I'm not quite sure what you mean by that but it seems to imply the Reiki has the answer and it does not.

Treeme wrote: »

I have to say I actually disagree with almost everything you say. Classifying it as a disease, just means there is no hope.

No its a treatable disease.

Treeme wrote: »

Thanks to Reiki, and only recently, councelling, I feel like I can actually overcome the depression, and continue on with my life, do what I want to do, and feel good about myself again.

I think thats great. However, fifty years of research into mood disorders shows that what has worked for you will not work for most sufferers.

Treeme wrote: »

It took me several years to actually accept that I had depression, but it is not a disease. It is a problem that can be overcome.

You obviously had a fairly mild depression and you don't see it as an illness. Thats fine. Its a question of degree. Its like the difference between someone running a high temperature and someone else having a full blown fever. Depression is a disease. It tortures and kills people. What about patients who have to be sedated or locked in their room to be restrained from killing themselves? What about mothers with post natal depression that want to kill their children? What about patients that are so depressed they cannot eat or drink? The fact that you don't see your depression as a disease does not mean that depression generally is not a disease.

Wibbs

Look I don't care what high horse you're staring down from or sacred cow you believe in or don't. The OP came for advice and so far so good, now this is being dragged way off topic. If you want a debate take it to the humanities or medicine or phsychology fora. It will not be tolerated here. Any more debate and I'm handing out bannings. It's as simple as that. That goes for everyone.
<SNIP>

LegacyUser

Absolutely not, I would never say Reiki is the answer, it is by no means a quick fix. I would however recommend it, if you want to start the healing process. I think it's a very long process, nothing will go away over night.
In response to your comment on the degrees of depression, why are you assuming I've had a 'mild' depression? I haven't told you anything about my situation, so perhaps you should stop making assumptions.
On your comment about the chakra system...its frequencies can be measured by Hz, it's not some hairy fairy spiritual jargon. Research has been done in this field by a number of scientists, the most recent one I read of is by a group of students from the University of Shanghai.

LegacyUser

Hi OP, I forgot, also if it is any help, depressionforums.org provides a good service. You can see posts from people in similar situations, just so you don't feel as alone in your situation.
Best of luck.