The Trouble with Limerick Hurling

Amazotheamazing

Limerick has the third highest numbers of hurlers in country, behind Cork and Galway. It is the main sport of the county, it's two main third level institutions, LIT and UL, are serious contenders for the Fitzgibbon Cup. It should be a powerhouse of hurling. It should be competing with Kilkenny, Cork and Tipperary for the the top level honours, but instead, like Galway, it is lying dormant and unlike Galway, it may be facing terminal decline.

Why? What is fundamentally wrong with Limerick hurling and why should every hurling fan be worried?

Limerick's finest moments were in the first half of the last century, and it has been a progressive decline since then, with only one All Ireland win in the last 60 or so years. It has lost finals since then, and if it had rallied and won one or even the two finals they contested in the 1990's things might have been different. Now Limerick hurling is in serious trouble for the same reason football counties worry which of their stars may end up playing rules in Australia. The route professional sport has been opened, albeit this time it's rugby and the success of Munster rugby. Of the 7 secondary schools in Limerick city, 4 can offer serious rugby teams, only two can offer even decent hurling teams.

Rugby can now offer a young athlete a chance to make a livelihood from sport, it can offer a chance to play for your country and it can offer to play on occasions arguably as big as an All Ireland final, a HEC final.

Of the Castletroy College team that won the Munster Rugby Senior Cup this year, all have played one or both codes of GAA. Predictably, the best athletes have prospered in each code. One player who's main sport was hurling prior to this year has been offered to go on a rugby exchange to New Zealand, what can the GAA offer these players to make them refuse the life rugby can offer them?

Were this isolated to Limerick, I'm sure most people wouldn't be too worked up, but it's not. In the Munster team, Tipperary's Donnacha Ryan only started rugby to bulk up for hurling, Tomas O'Leary captained the Cork hurlers at u-21. Rugby is clearly draining away top athletes from hurling and this is weakening the sport, it is simply more obvious in Limerick because Limerick currently has a stronger rugby club network. Even this is changing, in the past few years, it's been county rugby clubs like Nenagh Ormand and Bruff that have been rising through the divisions. Rugby is spreading, and it's possibly spreading at the expense of very top level GAA.

The GAA will always be the main sporting institution in Ireland, but will the standard of it's very highest tier drop as the more naturally gifted athletes are attracted by the pro lifestyle rugby can offer? Look at the Irish team, Horan, Hayes, Leamy, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Horgan and Kearney all left GAA behind to play pro rugby. We're a small country, as Limerick have shown, the talent can be spread too thinly.

i firmly believe that from the very earliest age, Limerick's best athlete's are drifting towards rugby and it's top level hurling teams are suffering as a result. If Limerick had arrested the decline before Munster took off, things might have been different, but they didn't and they mightn't get the chance again. Of the UL team that won the Fitzgibbon Cup two years ago, only one was from Limerick, roughly the same figures with LIT. The best players are leaving the sport and the standard is dropping. When was the last time a Limerick senior hurling club even looked like winning an All Ireland Club title? There's no point having the third highest number of senior players if all the better ones have already left the sport.

lanod2407

This has to be the winner of the 2008 "Stating the Obvious" Award - last won on April 14th, 1912, when a ship's Mate said "Captain, I think we may be taking on water"!!

So, what's the solution?


How do clubs keep the cream of the crop playing hurling at under-age levels from 14 right through to 18 and 21?
Success of rugby is certainly going to draw people towards the sport, but where's the strategy to stem the flow and win back the "customer" at under-age level?

If Tesco were losing custom to Superquinn on a daily basis they'd have a plan within the week to correct it -- the problem is that the GAA set-up in Limerick does not have the demonstrated capability to tackle this.

Limerick has always been a county where hurling, rugby and soccer have each had a strong following - and now that rugby is benefiting from major success and the arrival of a professional code the local GAA heads do not appear to have the ability to create and execute an effective strategy to maintain numbers and retain the cream within the code.

If this was happening in one of the larger counties there'd be a major iniative from Croke Park, but our place in the pecking order does not warrant such activity.

Amazotheamazing

lanod2407 wrote: »

This has to be the winner of the 2008 "Stating the Obvious" Award - last won on April 14th, 1912, when a ship's Mate said "Captain, I think we may be taking on water"!!

So, what's the solution?


How do clubs keep the cream of the crop playing hurling at under-age levels from 14 right through to 18 and 21?
Success of rugby is certainly going to draw people towards the sport, but where's the strategy to stem the flow and win back the "customer" at under-age level?

If Tesco were losing custom to Superquinn on a daily basis they'd have a plan within the week to correct it -- the problem is that the GAA set-up in Limerick does not have the demonstrated capability to tackle this.

Limerick has always been a county where hurling, rugby and soccer have each had a strong following - and now that rugby is benefiting from major success and the arrival of a professional code the local GAA heads do not appear to have the ability to create and execute an effective strategy to maintain numbers and retain the cream within the code.

If this was happening in one of the larger counties there'd be a major iniative from Croke Park, but our place in the pecking order does not warrant such activity.

While it's obvious to those of us who follow both, I'm a bit concerned that the GAA aren't really reacting in a broader sense. Surely the sight of a the son of a Cork hurling legend and a former u-21 captain (O'Leary) playing for Munster in a HEC final is enough to get some sense of the change that is happening. my point is it's more pronounced in Limerick, but it's happening all over Munster.

This year guys were crying off playing for the Limerick minors to play rugby with their school instead, that hasn't really been happening before. it only takes the loss of two or three top level athletes from a minor team to turn them from potential winners into also-rans. It's not the numbers we're losing I'm worried about, it's the type of player we're losing. As I said, Limerick still has a huge number of senior hurlers, the problem is they are of a lower quality.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the GAA can do, except to get proper underage coaching in the schools, make a concerted effort to bring more city schools and clubs to a higher standard and hope to raise the general level of player so the loss of a "star" player won't be as keenly felt.

Ultimately if they don't come up with a solution in Limerick, you'll see the same effect drain away the better players in the rest of Munster. The last thing hurling needs is to see it ebb in what's meant to be it's heartland.

lanod2407

Is there any mileage here - Under-age rugby teams are regularly rewarded with weekend trips to England, France, Spain to play a couple of matches .......... a massive reward for their participation in the code, and what do we see in the GAA - a challenge match against Toomevara or Sixmilebridge, and major money spent re-vamping the Gaelic Grounds ..... which we'll have the opportunity to see filled to capacity every five or six years, maybe!!!!

People under-estimate the impact of small things in the under-age set-up. Which will motivate a teenager more - a weekend in London playing rugby, or a trip to the Gaelic Grounds with 7,500 people in attendance??? Go figure!

thirdmantackle

JP should spend his money on underage GAA and forget about the seniors

Keano

Tbh comparing rugby and hurling cant be done. Rugby being a worldwide game means of course you can bring teams abroad to play matches.

DAC

IMO there are 2 ways to improve hurling in Limerick & across the country for that matter - 1 - get rid of the "back door" revert back to a straight knockout competition - the senior club player has been treated extremely poorly as a result of the current All-Ireland system, basically club matches are at the mercy of the Inter-county results, its impossible to know for sure when you are out in the championship bar maybe for the first round, when Limerick were strong in the "recent" past it coincided with a strong club scene - i.e Patrickswell Ballybrown Kilmallock winning Munster Clubs - ditto for Clare Doora Barefield & Wolfe Tones. As it is the senior Club Player is training for weeks & months at the height of the summer with no match of consequence, the hurling season can start as early as January & go through to October & you may well you wind up not getting out of your group in the SHC why wouldn't he switch codes, Players want to play not train. Same goes for getting commitment from managers / selectors its a diluted club scene as a result of the current inter county system.
You could argue the fixtures committee are guilty of incompetence in this area also!!
2 - The GAA should pay primary teachers (that wish to get involved) to train the kids for an hour or so 2 days a week.

grenache

DAC wrote: »

2 - The GAA should pay primary teachers (that wish to get involved) to train the kids for an hour or so 2 days a week.

There are a number of factors as to why Limerick hurling has been in the doldrums for such a long period, but the above mentioned problem is one of three main reasons. When i was in primary school, we played soccer, and only soccer at lunch time, and i'm sure this was repeated in school yards across the county. We had a teacher take us hurling training for maybe an hour or two a week but it was little or nothing compared to the amount of soccer we played. There are very few schools in Limerick actually putting an emphasis on hurling, the only ones i can think of are CBS Sexton St and Doon CBS. Powerhouse counties like Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp have it sorted when it comes to promotion of hurling in the schools, catch them young and there's a good chance they'll have a stick in their hands for life.

Secondly, GAA in Limerick City, population of 90,000 is poorly promoted, and has been neglected by the County Board for many years. Its very much the third sport, well behind rugby and soccer. City clubs give very little to the senior hurlers, so it is left to the county to supply the necessary players. Where once you had city clubs such as Claughaun regularly winning senior county titles, today you have the likes of Na Piarsaigh and Monaleen, struggling just to preserve their senior status. The County board is simply unable to counter-act the tidal wave that is Munster rugby in the city and its environs. Junior soccer is also extremely strong in the city. There are currently 4 city-based players in a Limerick hurling squad of over 30. That tells you everything you need to know about the state of hurling in Limerick City.

The final point, is that the bigger towns in the west of the county, such as Newcastle, Rathkeale and Abbeyfeale, are all dominated by either gaelic football, rugby or soccer. The first two are former garrison towns, and GAA will always struggle with soccer/rugby in such places.

thirdmantackle

that is not true about garrison towns

take Mullingar for example

2 senior football clubs, one senior hurling team, a ****ty rugby club and the same with soccer

GAA by far the biggest sport in the town

grenache

thirdmantackle wrote: »

that is not true about garrison towns

take Mullingar for example

2 senior football clubs, one senior hurling team, a ****ty rugby club and the same with soccer

GAA by far the biggest sport in the town

The exception rather than the rule. By and large, in garrison towns, soccer or rugby is king - i.e. Cobh, Nenagh, Athlone, Sligo, Derry.

gucci

Just my 2 cents here:
1. For me the major reason in fall out of GAA players (both football and hurling ) to sports like Rugby and Soccer is organisation. As a player of football, soccer and rugby (albeit as very poor schools level!) The one thing that pisses me and many lads off is the calling off culture and ridiculous fixture farce in club gaa. Fellas can be planning for a match on a friday and saturday evening just for the match to be called off on the Sunday morning because someones cat got run over in the next parish or some player from the other team had a wedding or a birthday to go to and their club twist up something to get the game called off. This means many a ordinary joe soap completely wastes his weekend, hanging around for a game and then have nothing to do In rugby and soccer this would not be tolerated!
There are many other organisational things like farcical management and refereeing that leaves fellas to just pack it in and join up with a soccer or rugby club, where of course politics in management are also strong, but not as bad (in my experience)

2.How easy is it for guys in limerick to play more than one code? Remember a few years back alot of friction between football and hurling codes, if the GAA cant agree among themselves, fellas would get pissed off and loose interest too. (Not trying to stir sh1t, just an enquiry)

3. I'm not sure how amatuer sports can compete with the glamour of professional sports. I have been saying for years that players need to be looked after better regarding scholarships etc, which has improved, but after that, im not sure how far they can go without threatening their amatuer status. No county footballer/hurler should ever be without a job anyways, and in my experience, most are looked after in this regard.

grenache

gucci wrote: »

Just my 2 cents here:
2.How easy is it for guys in limerick to play more than one code? Remember a few years back alot of friction between football and hurling codes, if the GAA cant agree among themselves, fellas would get pissed off and loose interest too. (Not trying to stir sh1t, just an enquiry)

It is not easy at all. The friction of a few years ago was caused by the hurling boss at the time, Padjo Whelehan. At the start of the 2004 season, he laid down a marker - players on his panel should commit themselves 100% to the hurling panel and give up the playing of other codes/sports, otherwise they would not be considered for selection. Obviously the dual players at the time - Brian Begley, Mark Keane, Stephen Lucey, Mike O'Brien, Conor Fitzgerald and Mark O'Riordan - were left with a dilemma. For that season the latter four chose to play football only, while the first two stuck to the hurling. The next season, all four footballers reverted to playing hurling only, and the footballers have struggled ever since without them. Whelehan was in no mood to compromise and his decision caused a lot of unnecessary hassle at the time, i'm sure the players were affected by it.

More recently, Limerick footballer Stephen Kelly has been starring for Shannon RFC. He topped their try scoring charts last season in league and cup. He returned to the Limerick football panel this season after an absense of 2 years, mostly spent concentrating on his rugby career. There is talk of him being drafted onto the Munster squad in the coming few months, whether this idle talk has any foundation or not, remains to be seen. For the moment he's back with the footballers, and we're delighted to have him back. His pace and runs are invaluable, he tormented Cork last Sunday week and the footballers can ill-afford to be without a player of his talent. But alas, should bigger things come calling for him on the oval ball scene, we may have to make do without him.

Amazotheamazing

Stephen Kelly swapped over too late to make much of an impact, but he already has got games for Munster A so they are keeping an eye on him.

He'll almost certainly ensure other players go across younger, but Limerick football has always lost players to rugby, and fairs fair, football is a made up sport which (imo) is far inferior to rugby. What's worrying me is hurling is losing players to rugby.

grenache

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

football is a made up sport which (imo) is far inferior to rugby. What's worrying me is hurling is losing players to rugby.

Is rugby not a 'made up' sport too? Weren't all sports not made up at some time.... :cool:

Amazotheamazing

grenache wrote: »

Is rugby not a 'made up' sport too? Weren't all sports not made up at some time.... :cool:

Sure, but rugby is, how to put this, good?

grenache

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Sure, but rugby is, how to put this, good?

I think you're being unfair to the big ball game there.

gucci

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Sure, but rugby is, how to put this, good?

Lads I think we should leave the "which sport is better" debate for another day, obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion on which sport is better, and guys will make their mind up which to play on the basis of this too.
But its the other factors we should be discussing and exploring. What makes playing rugby better option than Gaelic football or hurling?
As well as the professional and semi-professional element of rugby there is also the discipline and in my opinion, more consistent refereeing (not necessarily good, but consistent)