problems with supersystem

alwaysonthebeer

i read doyle brunson's supersystem book, and in my first poker tournament today, came accross a few problems/questoins from it.

-firstly, for certain hands such as small connecting cards, he tells us to "limp in" before the flop. Say the blinds are 50-100, what is the maximum bet you should call to be limping in?

-in a certain hand i held 9 4 and on the board was 4 5 10 9 10, what should you do when the board pairs like this?

-if another player asks what you had do you lie or tell him to mind his own business?

-if you hold A 3 and on turn we have 5 10 8 A what do you do?

-when calculating your pot odds after the flop, say you have 12 outs so your price of hitting it on the turn is about 3/1 and price of hitting it on either the river or turn is about 5/4, which odds do you use to decide whether to bet, and can you explain why?

-i was told when you only hold about 10 times the chips of the big blind you might as well go in if you're betting at all?

-if say you have 300 chips left and 100 of these are in as your big blind, should you go all in before the flop no matter how poor your hand is?

-i know how i will play any given scenario in a full table, however say i get to the final table and the numbers drop from 10/11 all the way down to 2. how do you adapt your game and hands you play, is there any good online links telling you what hands to play/not play given the number of other players at your table?

shoutman

Welcome to the forum. It bodes well for you if after your first poker tourney you are already asking questions such as these, although they are ruddimentry knowing the answers will probably make you better then a decent percentage of poker players out there.

alwaysonthebeer wrote: »

i read doyle brunson's supersystem book, and in my first poker tournament today, came accross a few problems/questoins from it.

-firstly, for certain hands such as small connecting cards, he tells us to "limp in" before the flop. Say the blinds are 50-100, what is the maximum bet you should call to be limping in?
People's opinions on playing small connecting cards differ, some people think that in 98% of situations limping preflop is always bad, if you want to play by the book and in this case the book is supersystem, then the answer would be dependant on how much chips you have and how much chips your opponents have, (if you have 5000 and your opponent has 4000, then the effective stacks are 4000 as this is the most you can win from the hand, if you have 6000 and your opponent has 12000 the effective stack size is 6000. The reason I bring this up is because there is no point limping at 50/100 with small connectiing cards if the effective stack sizes are low, these small cards are played to win big pots for the most part with the odd time you take it down with a semi bluff, if your opponent doesnt have a lot of chips or you dont then there is no point getting involved with these hands, you also have to take a number of other things into consideration including: If I limp will somebody after me raise? If they raise will I still have the implied odds to call?
-in a certain hand i held 9 4 and on the board was 4 5 10 9 10, what should you do when the board pairs like this?
Firstly unless you are in the blinds, 94 should never be a starting hand that you should consider playing, it will only lose you money in the long run. When the board pairs like this you just look at the hand you have now, you no longer have two pair 9's and 4's you have two pair 10's and 9's with a bad kicker. Anybody who has a nine in his hand now in all likelihood beats you and anybody who had top pair on the flop has you crushed. You do not have a very good hand at the moment, but given that we dont know who you are playing against, what happened preflop or on the flop its hard ot make a judgement on what to do.
-if another player asks what you had do you lie or tell him to mind his own business?
I reccommend not saying anything, that way your opponent can't gain anything from the answer. Also bare in mind, if you told the truth your hand is declared void so in essence you actually have to lie if you were to say anything specific.
-if you hold A 3 and on turn we have 5 10 8 A what do you do?

-when calculating your pot odds after the flop, say you have 12 outs so your price of hitting it on the turn is about 3/1 and price of hitting it on either the river or turn is about 5/4, which odds do you use to decide whether to bet, and can you explain why?
This depends on a few things, generally just use the hit by turn odds, as a lot of the time if you miss and check your opponent might bet and you will be forced to fold, if your opponent is passive and doesnt bet much then you might be able to use the hit b river odds as you may be given a free card.
-i was told when you only hold about 10 times the chips of the big blind you might as well go in if you're betting at all?
For the most part this is held to be through if the stacks are deep, but there are cases when pushing with 10bb isnt great.
-if say you have 300 chips left and 100 of these are in as your big blind, should you go all in before the flop no matter how poor your hand is?
This is a no brainer, if you have 72 and you know your opponent has you beat you call every time.
-i know how i will play any given scenario in a full table, however say i get to the final table and the numbers drop from 10/11 all the way down to 2. how do you adapt your game and hands you play, is there any good online links telling you what hands to play/not play given the number of other players at your table?I'm sure someone can give you a link or something but generally as the number of players drops the starting hand requirement increases, ie you can play worse starting hands as you are more likely to beat your opponents hand ranges then you would if there was a full table.

Hope this helps.
Good luck

Also you should pick up harrington on hold 'em series, its a better book then supersystem imo..

TommyGunne

imo forget the books and start reading internet forums. They have much much better advice. Go to www.twoplustwo.com, or read some of the advice here.

The answers to all your questions are really it depends. I know thats not much help but you gotta be able to differentiate between different situations.

Slash/ED

Your questions really are too vague. You're better off positng up the HH of the hands that bothered you as best as you can remember and people can give you both advice on what you should do in that spot and how you've played the hand up to that point which could help plug some other leaks. Just post, post, post in the HH forum, its the best way to learn

nicnicnic

I could be wrong and apologise if i am but i think this is a spam prequel, i saw the exact same post on another forum earlier

Ste05

Linky??

As of now, I think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the OP.

nicnicnic

Ste05 wrote: »

Linky??

As of now, I think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the OP.

was on the betfair forum so cant link, dunno could be grand

Ste05

I deleted some trolling from our Friend DBC, so this thread can be clear of crap

Headspace

I read supersystem soon after i started playing as well, this book is meant for more experienced plrs, it totally threw me off my game. I went back two yrs later and read it and it made much more sence. Imo it is good for cash games and it teaches relentless aggression, i have read the book three times. I would reccomend getting more experience before trying to apply what is in that very good book.

alwaysonthebeer

not a bad call with the small connecting hands.

im thinking of maybe using a formula to work out how much i should call with these cards, taking into account the probability of me hitting a hand and the amount of chips i can get into the pot if i do so.

what would the probability be of hitting any of top pair, a two pair, trips, a straight, a straight draw, a flush or a flush draw on the flop given that i hold say 57 suited?

then the amount i should call should be just less than the amount i can get into the pot multiplied by the probability of hitting any of the above hands?

alwaysonthebeer

also in relation to calcutating the pot odds, lots of my mates told me to go by the odds of hitting the card at all in either 4th or 5th street.
lets say i'm playing against someone i dont know and dont have a clue if he's gonna bet or check after the turn.
should i use the by turn odds or odds to hit at all? or should i use a combo of both them?

robinblinds

Never ever raise "to see where you are".

Ste05

Deleted more crap from our friend...

Ace2007

nicnicnic wrote: »

I could be wrong and apologise if i am but i think this is a spam prequel, i saw the exact same post on another forum earlier

for the record, i know the OP and he has never really played before and so he isn't trolling or whatever you guys call it.

Ace2007

Ste05 wrote: »

Deleted more crap from our friend...

?

Ste05

Ace2007 wrote: »

?

Our resident troll DBC, check the BBV thread for posts from him, I haven't bothered deleting his posts in there...

Pulsar Eagle

robinblinds wrote: »

Never ever raise "to see where you are".

How do you find out where you are in a hand so????

robinblinds

Pulsar Eagle wrote: »

How do you find out where you are in a hand so????

Just ask ffs...

Pulsar Eagle

robinblinds wrote: »

Just ask ffs...

lol, no but seriously what do you do???

robinblinds

Fold first ask questions later.

Lurker1977

There are 4 reasons to bet.

a) As a value bet and folding to a raise
b) As a value bet calling any raise or reraising
c) As a semibluff and folding/calling/reraising any raise - opponent specific
d) As a pure bluff

If you are unsure as to which of the above your bet is for, then you should probably check. And the last time I checked, chips win you tournaments, not information. Why would you give away one, when you can learn the other by watching what they do when you DON'T bet?

zuutroy

I thought super-system was simplisic rubbish tbh

dwayman

zuutroy wrote: »

I thought super-system was simplisic rubbish tbh

Super System is dated. Yes. But to dismiss the whole book as simplistic rubbish is a bit harsh. It covers a good middle ground but isn't relevent to the modern online game.

But for live cash it certainly gets bad loosers on the right track. Brunson himself puts alot of things down to feel etc and it is probably overrated.

Also the main problem is that he doesn't refer to stack sizes as from his point of view the games are always deep. So he doesn't mention the folly of playing suited connectors againest 4 students with their last 55 euro waiting for a PP.

It is good to get you going and the PLO section is an excellent introduction to the game with the same info as other books just better presented.

Macspower

A summary of supersystem.... bet/raise/bet/raise again/bet again/raise/raise and finally bet some more....

Supersystem has moments of pure genius but I'm not sure it stand up to the current games...

T_o_r_r_e_s

I think a lot of the content in super system is geared towards cash games. i played awful after reading it first time cause i was playing cash and tournaments. i would recommend reading harrington on holdem volumes 1 & 2 (excellent books for tournaments) then read super system again in a few months you should have a much better understanding of the differences between cash and tournament play. you will have a better idea which concepts to use for both to suit your style of play

Mellor

In the foreword to SS2,
Doyle gives details of a hand he once played.
Limit hold'em
He has AA, board is A,4,2
betting max'ed

Turn is a 2
its bet, raised, into DB (limit remember, so getting about 8/1)
Doyle says he folds, that is a terrible fold imo, and sets the tone for the book.
its there for the basics, but the play isn't that advanced compared with other resources available

H8GHOTI

Mellor wrote: »

In the foreword to SS2,
Doyle gives details of a hand he once played.
Limit hold'em
He has AA, board is A,4,2
betting max'ed

Turn is a 2
its bet, raised, into DB (limit remember, so getting about 8/1)
Doyle says he folds, that is a terrible fold imo, and sets the tone for the book.
its there for the basics, but the play isn't that advanced compared with other resources available

What? No way he folds a Full House here
You must be joking!

Mellor

H8GHOTI wrote: »

What? No way he folds a Full House here
You must be joking!

Page 76 SS2

pocketdooz

Mellor wrote: »

Page 76 SS2

.

H8GHOTI

Mellor wrote: »

Page 76 SS2

That's in the History of Hold Em section.
Found it last night, after you gave me the page it wasn't too hard.
Thanks.

Unreal! I can't believe he folded. It turned out he was beat but still.
A four on the river as well and the quad 2's were beat by pocket 4's.
Crazy hand.