Bible verses you never understood?

loozinfat

"Jacob I loved but Esau I hated before the twins were even born"

JimiTime

Could you supply the location of this line, just so I can read the context. Cheers.

Dave!

Romans 9:13.....

10Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[d] 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."[e]

loozinfat

JimiTime wrote: »

Could you supply the location of this line, just so I can read the context. Cheers.

Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:13

Splendour

loozinfat wrote: »

"Jacob I loved but Esau I hated before the twins were even born"

This has to do with that 'often debated amongst Christians' topic of pre-election. This passage refers to unborn twins and how they would react to Gods calling. Before these twins were born God knew which one would love him and which twin would turn against him.

Both of these babies were descendants of Abraham, but that didn't necessarily guarantee them a 'get out of jail free' card.

In todays standards, I suppose it is the equivalent of people thinking if they're born into a Christian family, they are assured of gaining entry into heaven.

wolfsbane

Splendour wrote: »

This has to do with that 'often debated amongst Christians' topic of pre-election. This passage refers to unborn twins and how they would react to Gods calling. Before these twins were born God knew which one would love him and which twin would turn against him.

Both of these babies were descendants of Abraham, but that didn't necessarily guarantee them a 'get out of jail free' card.

In todays standards, I suppose it is the equivalent of people thinking if they're born into a Christian family, they are assured of gaining entry into heaven.

The Reformed explanation of God's choice here is that it was not based on Him knowing what each would do, but entirely unconditional.

He chose whom He wished.

Left to themselves, neither would have followed God. But He chose Jacob and worked in him so that he would love and follow God.

Splendour

wolfsbane wrote: »

The Reformed explanation of God's choice here is that it was not based on Him knowing what each would do, but entirely unconditional.

He chose whom He wished.

Left to themselves, neither would have followed God. But He chose Jacob and worked in him so that he would love and follow God.

Hi wolfsblane; Gods love is unconditional-agreed, but then are you saying Esau had no choice?
'He worked in Jacob...' - have to say even though a believer, I find this difficult to accept-kinda makes me give up on praying for folk...

wolfsbane

Splendour wrote: »

Hi wolfsblane; Gods love is unconditional-agreed, but then are you saying Esau had no choice?
'He worked in Jacob...' - have to say even though a believer, I find this difficult to accept-kinda makes me give up on praying for folk...

No, Esau, like all sinners, had a choice. The choice he made, however, was determined by the sort of nature he had. An evil nature will not choose to do good, spiritual good in the sense of hating sin and loving God.

Jacob had the same nature - but God changed his heart, gave him faith to believe and turn from his sin. So it is with every child of God - they have to have their hearts changed before they are willing to obey God's word.
Acts 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 16:14Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

It is the nature of the New Covenant:
Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

But why should it cause you to stop praying for folk? God uses means to accomplish His ends - your prayers being one of them. It should encourage your prayers, knowing that nothing - neither ignorance, hostility, delusions, nor fear in the person prayed for can stop God saving them if it is His plan.

You know He has commanded us to pray for all men; you know He has chosen some of them - so rejoice that you are doing His will and may be used of Him to bring some of His elect to faith, and to those who refuse our word we are His witness against them.

2 Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. 15 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?

philologos

Could someone explain this to me. I'm looking in the Gospel of Matthew at the Sermon of the Mount.

Matthew 6:22 wrote:

"The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light; but if your eye is unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!"

PDN

Jakkass, the most common interpretation of that passage is that the physical eye is the avenue by which light is received and so all your bodily activities are dependant on the eye being OK. If your eyesight goes then all your other physical activities will be out of whack.

If your inner moral compass is corrupted and in darkness then everything else you do, including your morality and rationality, will be affected by that.

The passage occurs smack in the middle of teaching that warns about being over-materialistic and having an unbalanced attitude to wealth. So, going by the context, Jesus was saying, "If you let the love of money get a hold on you then your moral compass will be corrupted and your morality will suffer in other areas." I think that is a word that needs to be heeded by the Christian church today. It is noticeable to me how many prominent evangelists that major on money etc. seem to end up losing their way in other areas of morality (eg Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart etc).

santing

loozinfat wrote: »

Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:13

I think reading it in context makes it easier. Malachi is the last (written) book of the Old Testament, and the first time it is said that God hates Esau. That's more than 1000 years after Esau died, and 1000 years in which Esau and Esau's offspring have shown themselves to be enemies of God and enemies of God's people.