What's the latest on the broadband upgrade (originally for June 08)?

c0y0te

There was lots of talk about 4-6 months ago about an impending upgrade that was supposed to take place by June. I'm based in Malahide, currently getting a 3mb down/384K up DSL service via Magnet and I was wondering if this is going to change anytime soon?

paulm17781

The UPC (cable) upgrades are ongoing this month, people are definitely getting them. There is a huge thread in here about the Eircom upgrades. I think Magnet are LLU so any upgrades would be up to them.

smellslikeshoes

Eircoms upgrades won't do anything for you if you're on magnet.

BlackWizard

Yeah I got a letter in the post saying I'd be upgraded to 8mb in June.

Praetorian

Someone in the know said weekend of July 4th for the upgrades. We've no other info to the contrary.

dub45

BlackWizard wrote: »

Yeah I got a letter in the post saying I'd be upgraded to 8mb in June.

People should be very wary of this - many lines will simply not be up to those speeds.

Gonzo

it will be similar to the uk where everyone can avail of an 8meg service but in reality many are struggling to get 3meg when they run their speedtests.

Praetorian

Well the big difference is that they were using ADSL1 for a long time so practically nobody got close to 8m/bit. In our case ADSL2+ will help a lot of people. This doesn't take away from the fact that we're years behind the rest of europe, the new packages are much slower than those offered by Smart or UPC and officially we're in the dark about what's happening. All very unsatisfactory.

dub45

Gonzo wrote: »

it will be similar to the uk where everyone can avail of an 8meg service but in reality many are struggling to get 3meg when they run their speedtests.

Speaking of which:

http://http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/doubts-remain-over-broadband-speeds-as-voluntary-code-agreed-841478.html

dub45

Praetorian wrote: »

Well the big difference is that they were using ADSL1 for a long time so practically nobody got close to 8m/bit. In our case ADSL2+ will help a lot of people. This doesn't take away from the fact that we're years behind the rest of europe, the new packages are much slower than those offered by Smart or UPC and officially we're in the dark about what's happening. All very unsatisfactory.

But I can assure you that adsl2 is not a panacea - I am on Smart and have regular problems with my line as have loads of others:

http://http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=2052

One of the great things about Smart is that you can get individual attention through the forum/

c0y0te

I think Magnet are LLU so any upgrades would be up to them.

Anyone else here on Magnet? If so - do you know what their intentions are and whether or not the benefits of the upgrade are being passed on to customers or will it be an additional cost?

smellslikeshoes

c0y0te wrote: »

Anyone else here on Magnet? If so - do you know what their intentions are and whether or not the benefits of the upgrade are being passed on to customers or will it be an additional cost?

How can they pass benefits of of the Eircom upgrade onto their customers if they aren't going to benefit from it at all. Magnets Equipment is independent of Eircoms so the impending Eircom upgrade won't do anything for you or magnet, other than maybe push them to upgrade speeds/lower prices to compete.

kaizersoze

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

How can they pass benefits of of the Eircom upgrade onto their customers if they aren't going to benefit from it at all. Magnets Equipment is independent of Eircoms so the impending Eircom upgrade won't do anything for you or magnet, other than maybe push them to upgrade speeds/lower prices to compete.

Magnet sell Bitstream aswell as their LLU. It currently only seems to be offered to businesses but they would have alot of residential customers from the Netsource days.

tanora78

This post has been deleted.

tech

still on 2mb with BT, meant to be 3mb before month end

dubmick

tech wrote: »

still on 2mb with BT, meant to be 3mb before month end

+1

rogue-entity

Still on 3M/384 and eagerly awaiting a jump to 7.6 (for the love of all things good, eircom, why 7.6, why not just go the full 8 and be done with it).

And perhaps it would be a good idea to merge this thread with the older eircom one, since its basically two threads now, discussing the same thing, which is the speed upgrades.

Fighting Irish

Praetorian wrote: »

Someone in the know said weekend of July 4th for the upgrades. We've no other info to the contrary.

Everyone on boards likes to think they're in the know

Fighting Irish

dub45 wrote: »

People should be very wary of this - many lines will simply not be up to those speeds.

Theres no extra charge, so any upgrade is welcomed

Grumpy Bob

tech wrote: »

still on 2mb with BT, meant to be 3mb before month end

I am also on BT 2mb and asked them on the phone about 2 months ago but the guy was a script monkey and knew nothing. I asked again through their website about two weeks but BT did what they do best........they ignored me!

I know that I am not going to see a huge improvement from 2 to 3mb but it is at least in the right direction.

flamegrill

Eircoms upgrades are coming in 2 parts.

1) 1/2/3 meg existing packages are going to 2/3/7.6 on RADSL
2) 4/6 meg existing packages are going to 10/12meg on ADSL2+

The reason for 7.6meg on RADSL is line quality issues. As such I believe the upgrade was said to be postponed because some quality checking on the 3meg upgrades was prooving less than desirable results by eircoms techies.

<edit>

I meant to also mention that people on 3meg now will get very very mixed results because of line issues. So 7.6 meg might only be the reality for a small percentage of people. Only time will tell though.

</edit>

I've not heard anything to the contary since so we'll just have to wait. I myself am currently on 3meg so 7.6 will rock and according to my google skillz I should get full speed based on my line attenuation and db margins.

Paul

Gonzo

why are the residential packages still only gonna be on radsl and the business on adsl2+? Surely it would be handier to put everyone on adsl2+ which should offer a smoother service with a higher chance of getting the genuine speed?

flamegrill

Line cards cost money, residential services don't make ISPs as much money as business packages do so that's greed driving this choice. Plus a lot of the afore mentioned line cards are relatively new in a lot of places, it would be a waste of money (that could be spent elsewhere!!) upgrading everyone. Plus ADSL is good for upto 8Meg.

I had gotten an ADSL2+ modem in and all for the upgrade (only last week) but I heard that it's only the business packages on ADSL2+

smellslikeshoes

flamegrill wrote: »

Line cards cost money, residential services don't make ISPs as much money as business packages do so that's greed driving this choice. Plus a lot of the afore mentioned line cards are relatively new in a lot of places, it would be a waste of money (that could be spent elsewhere!!) upgrading everyone. Plus ADSL is good for upto 8Meg.

I had gotten an ADSL2+ modem in and all for the upgrade (only last week) but I heard that it's only the business packages on ADSL2+

It makes sense, but I have not seen this confirmed one way or the other. There has been a whole lot of speculation and I wouldn't take anything for granted unless straight from the horses mouth.

Macker1

flamegrill wrote: »

Eircoms upgrades are coming in 2 parts.

1) 1/2/3 meg existing packages are going to 2/3/7.6 on RADSL
2) 4/6 meg existing packages are going to 10/12meg on ADSL2+

The reason for 7.6meg on RADSL is line quality issues. As such I believe the upgrade was said to be postponed because some quality checking on the 3meg upgrades was prooving less than desirable results by eircoms techies.

<edit>

I meant to also mention that people on 3meg now will get very very mixed results because of line issues. So 7.6 meg might only be the reality for a small percentage of people. Only time will tell though.

</edit>





I've not heard anything to the contary since so we'll just have to wait. I myself am currently on 3meg so 7.6 will rock and according to my google skillz I should get full speed based on my line attenuation and db margins.

Paul

Not sure what my stats mean but maybe you can shed some light on what I can expect with the upgrade. I have posted my details below. I'm currently on the 3mb package. Hopefully it will improve with the upgrade.

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 12.00 17.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 18.50 12.00
CRC Errors 33 15

dub45

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Theres no extra charge, so any upgrade is welcomed

I agree that upgrades are welcome. But most people are unaware of the possible problems associated with increases in speed and for a lot of people upgrades will actually cause problems - particularly increases in the frequency of disconnects.

dub45

Macker1 wrote: »

Not sure what my stats mean but maybe you can shed some light on what I can expect with the upgrade. I have posted my details below. I'm currently on the 3mb package. Hopefully it will improve with the upgrade.

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 12.00 17.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 18.50 12.00
CRC Errors 33 15

Have a look at the links I gave here : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56323673&postcount=41

It is worth getting familiar with the background to the stats.

conceited

I'm sure eircom know what their doing.
If they say we are getting upgrades in june then we are getting upgrades in june.
Laugh joke and say whatever you like but you lads haven't a clue.:D

rogue-entity

Gonzo wrote: »

why are the residential packages still only gonna be on radsl and the business on adsl2+? Surely it would be handier to put everyone on adsl2+ which should offer a smoother service with a higher chance of getting the genuine speed?

Well that isnt quite true, its not a case of giving business customers DSL2+, its more the case of not wanting to spend money on the line-cards for slower speed connections, which ADSL v1 can handle, if the line conditions are good enough. DigiWeb supplies 4 and 6Mbit broadband to home users as well as business customers, and our DSL line at work is only 1Mbit.

But in any case, I wont be complaining, since the line I have is pretty decent considering.

Macker1 wrote: »

Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 12.00 17.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 18.50 12.00
CRC Errors 33 15

Downstream/Upstream
Sync: 3072/384
SN Margin (dB): 35/15
Line Attenuation (dB): 18/13

lucernarian

flamegrill wrote: »

Eircoms upgrades are coming in 2 parts.

1) 1/2/3 meg existing packages are going to 2/3/7.6 on RADSL
2) 4/6 meg existing packages are going to 10/12meg on ADSL2+

The reason for 7.6meg on RADSL is line quality issues. As such I believe the upgrade was said to be postponed because some quality checking on the 3meg upgrades was prooving less than desirable results by eircoms techies.

<edit>

I meant to also mention that people on 3meg now will get very very mixed results because of line issues. So 7.6 meg might only be the reality for a small percentage of people. Only time will tell though.

</edit>

I've not heard anything to the contary since so we'll just have to wait. I myself am currently on 3meg so 7.6 will rock and according to my google skillz I should get full speed based on my line attenuation and db margins.

Paul

So 7.6 mbps will be provided on ADSL1?? Yes indeed it's because of line quality issues. Eircom must like people going through disconnects. I don't really care if eircom are offering 7.6 mbps somehow, as the majority of people with 3mbps are going to have problems. They make a small percentage of their customer base, so eircom should cop the f**k on and put more people on more modern standard DSL equipment.

ADSL2 would have mitigated the upgrade problems. Delaying the rollout will do nothing to the fact that the majority of lines will not sync at 7.6 mbps on G992.1. Eircom techies can't overcome physical limitations any more than your average bear can.

I know at least 2 people will be contacting me to find out why their DSL reliability's gone to ****, given their attenuation currently. Thanks eircom:mad:


And one final thing: I'll laugh when people who had to downgrade from 3mbps because their line was faulty or too long, suddenly get upgraded again and give eircom support an earful.

smellslikeshoes

I'm really not convinced that they are going to have the 1,3 and 7.6 packages on Adsl and the others on Adsl2+. Where is the proof of this? Just seems like speculation to me.

flamegrill

The information is correct as of end of May as was communicated by eircom to the people in each OLO (BT, Magnet, Strencom, Perlico, Imagine etc). Today there was an announcement that there will be no upgrades in June.

As for speculation, the fact is Eircom could change their mind and go "testing has shown that 80% of upgraded 3meg test lines encounter issues on RADSL" and the fix could be to move them to ADSL2+.

But as I said above, as of end of May it was RADSL for the "mass unwashed" and ADSL2+ for business customers on 4mbit or higher (current packages).

lmimmfn

flamegrill wrote: »

The information is correct as of end of May as was communicated by eircom to the people in each OLO (BT, Magnet, Strencom, Perlico, Imagine etc). Today there was an announcement that there will be no upgrades in June.

As for speculation, the fact is Eircom could change their mind and go "testing has shown that 80% of upgraded 3meg test lines encounter issues on RADSL" and the fix could be to move them to ADSL2+.

But as I said above, as of end of May it was RADSL for the "mass unwashed" and ADSL2+ for business customers on 4mbit or higher (current packages).

where?

kaizersoze

lmimmfn wrote: »

where?

Internally and to the OLO's most likely.

Bohrio

flamegrill wrote: »

The information is correct as of end of May as was communicated by eircom to the people in each OLO (BT, Magnet, Strencom, Perlico, Imagine etc). Today there was an announcement that there will be no upgrades in June.

As for speculation, the fact is Eircom could change their mind and go "testing has shown that 80% of upgraded 3meg test lines encounter issues on RADSL" and the fix could be to move them to ADSL2+.

But as I said above, as of end of May it was RADSL for the "mass unwashed" and ADSL2+ for business customers on 4mbit or higher (current packages).

This is apparently true. Eircom has postponed indefinitely the upgrade as they have encountered problems with their trial customer when upgraded to 7.6 mbps. The problem, as it has already been said, is to do with RA (Rate adaptive) ADSL.

Apparently they wont be using ADSL2+ with all customers. This is probably due to the cost involved. A high percentage of their routers wont work with ADSL2+. So the procedure will be if you are a new customer and your exchange has an adsl2+ DSLAM then you "might", and only might, be given ADSL2+, if you are an old customer then you will stay on ADSL1 (g.dmt).

This will explain the problems they said the encountered as RA g.dmt (ADSL1) is less permissive than RA ADSL2+, this is most of the times due to the quality of the copper wires (unstable lines). In order for a person to obtain 7.6 mbps on G.DMT the line has to be fairly close to the exchange, also, ADSL2+ deals much better on RA than on G.DMT.

I find this a bit sad, I think there is a lack of ambition from Eircoms side. I dont know, maybe is just me but I was hoping that, as others ISPs (such as Smart, Magnet and even BT) had already started offering this service, Eircom was planning a major counterstrike but apparently that's not possible.

Bad news I am afraid. At the moment Eircom wont be giving any more explanations until July. I will see what I can find out.

Blindpew

If the government hadn't stupidly sold Eircom and had put money into building a proper infrastructure for broadband we wouldn't be so far behind the rest of the world today. The money they would have made from all the providers would have paid for it over time. It's no good blaming private companies now for not doing what our own shortsighted leaders wouldn't do.

Gonzo

I take it then that Eircom really have gone back to the drawing board on this and it could be anything up to a year before we see our upgrades now:(?

azzeretti

Bohrio wrote: »

This is apparently true. Eircom has postponed indefinitely the upgrade as they have encountered problems with their trial customer when upgraded to 7.6 mbps.

Are you having a laugh? Postponed? You mean canceled?

smellslikeshoes

Overreactions and speculation, that is what this thread is entirely composed of.

Fingleberries

I wonder how they will communicate this to their customers (and how all the other BitStream ISPs will do it, too). I know BT sent a fancy pack telling everyone of the 'free' upgrades - I'm sure they got a bunch of people to change to their 3MB packages to get up to 7.6.

Probably won't even get a mention from them.

Bohrio

azzeretti wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? Postponed? You mean canceled?

Just postponed, at least until July.

Personally I think that 7.6 mbps on adsl1 is aiming to high... for Irish standards at least... 6 mb will be more reasonable.

Nevertheless I was expecting Eircom's upgrade to be a bit more ambitious... I mean, I knew they were not going to upgrade all their Exchanges to ADSL2+ and that they were going to use adsl1 in some of them but not the other way around.

tripswitch

Fingleberries wrote: »

I wonder how they will communicate this to their customers (and how all the other BitStream ISPs will do it, too). I know BT sent a fancy pack telling everyone of the 'free' upgrades - I'm sure they got a bunch of people to change to their 3MB packages to get up to 7.6.

Probably won't even get a mention from them.

That's an interesting situation for BT and the other providers. As a BT customer I received the same letter recently. I'm now a hair away from switching to Smart because of this. Just as you suggested, I've been on the hook since Eircom's vapourware announcement back in Jan/Feb. Foolishly back then when I upgraded to 3mb I let BT talk me into staying on Eircom's equipment instead of taking the few days down-time and switching to theirs (my exchange is LLU). Dumb move in retrospect.

(BT's broadband service is very good, but their billing system is still so inaccurate that it'd almost be worth it for that alone.)

Sponge Bob

Bohrio wrote: »

Just postponed, at least until July.

Personally I think that 7.6 mbps on adsl1 is aiming to high... for Irish standards at least... 6 mb will be more reasonable.

Well it was supposed to be 6 but the chairman, danon, wanted parity with BT who once fired him. BT were selling 8 .

So it had to be 7.6 . now danon has just gone and a flurry of internal emails indicate it may actually be 6 when it eventually does goes ahead ....soon enough I hear .

flamegrill

They just as easily go with 8Meg ADSL2+ which if they have upgraded any kit at all then they might aswell continue with the 3Meg people. That package was originally for home offices anyway, so potentially it's a business product. I know that's what we give all our engineers for when they're on-call and stuff.

Sponge Bob

They _could_ but they have enough ADSL1 Line cards bought for the Alcatel Chassis to service about 500,000 connections and they have no intention of chucking them out .

(all aggregate figures are eircom wholesale including resold Bitstream)

They only have enough ADSL2+ Line cards to do at most 200,000 connections and have bugger all money to buy any more this year .

350,000 of their customers only have a 1mbit connection so the ADSL1 gear has plenty of life left in it

They need to shoehorn the 3 Meggers onto those ADSL1 cards somehow .