Big 4 or small practice?

schumacher

im finishing my degee next year! if i get offers from the big 4 and small practices which would you recommend? most ppl say big 4 but im unsure! is it a really big advantage to have it on your cv?

You will get a broader training in a (good) small practise. In Big 4, you may be restricted to doing certain parts of files, eg stock, debtors, etc. I know Big 4 students who did their 4 years without ever doing a VAT return for example, or other basis tasks.

If you get into a good small practise, I really think it prepares you for anything that post-qualification work can throw at you. However, I am probably a bit biased, so tak to Big-4 alumin too

shewasoctober

I think in all honesty, go with your gut. There are pros and cons for training with a small practice and a Big4. Take interviews with firms of all sizes and get a feel for the place when you are there. Honestly, if I would have been able to attend interviews earlier (I'm from the States), I would've preferred a medium size firm. Don't forget about the mid-tier firms. I hear you get the best of both worlds there, if you can get into the right one. See about talking to current trainees at the firms you interview with and really get a feel for the place. Everyone is different.
Good luck! Cheers!

Hanley

shewasoctober wrote: »

I think in all honesty, go with your gut. There are pros and cons for training with a small practice and a Big4. Take interviews with firms of all sizes and get a feel for the place when you are there. Honestly, if I would have been able to attend interviews earlier (I'm from the States), I would've preferred a medium size firm. Don't forget about the mid-tier firms. I hear you get the best of both worlds there, if you can get into the right one. See about talking to current trainees at the firms you interview with and really get a feel for the place. Everyone is different.
Good luck! Cheers!

QFT.

ShoulderChip

I hear spurs might break into the big 4 this year.

Legend100

ShoulderChip wrote: »

I hear spurs might break into the big 4 this year.

Priceless!!!

Im in a small firm and the training is pretty broad which is an advantage but your gonna get a lot more money in the Big 4 so thats the flip side

chump

Legend100 wrote: »

Im in a small firm and the training is pretty broad which is an advantage but your gonna get a lot more money in the Big 4 so thats the flip side

The big4 is clearly the way to go.
Start in the bigger companies, move downwards.

"I know Big 4 students who did their 4 years without ever doing a VAT return for example, or other basis tasks."

So the big 4 students may not have done a VAT return. Fkkkkkkkkkk

Things you may do in the big four if you go into audit
- Audit an entire range of clients, from multi-million dollar listed to small-euro big idea domestic companies
- Do controls work in the biggest companies in the world, learning how there systems work
- Review contracts and learn about the transactions these top name clients partake in
- Senior on large engagements, managing people, liaising with big people
- Learn to suck up the greatest pressure you are ever likely to experience

Areas to watch for when joining a big four
- don't join financial services if you have no interest in it
- try to get into a broader group that has a variety of clients

Other perks
- the best trainee salaries
- excellent HR and L&D services
- the best study leave

And more importantly than all that
It is FAR easier to go from big to small than vice versa
If you want to do something more commercial after your contract, experience senioring teams doing an audit of a fairly complex multi-entity group that is listed or Brand name is going to look quite good on your CV.
In pretty much all the companies I have audited, the top people are CA's who trained in the big four.

Do not underestimate the experience.


Personal experience;
The stress and strain and pressure may not be worth it, but there is no doubt that if you want a top career, it IS the right choice.

ankles

I joined a mid-tier firm as for illness reasons my grades dipped in 2nd year and the big firms wouldn't touch me. (not bearing a grudge grrr) I agree that you got both sides there, that is got to do everything but also got big jobs, the crazy hours etc. I would say though that if you want the big jobs some of them advertise Big 4 only. Its a snobbery thing but that's life. I would also agree with the comment about financial services. If you go into it you'll be buried in it for your entire contract. You could do well out of it but if you don't like it it will drive you insane. it's all mad numbers and no reality. I've seen mistakes of 10's of millions and no one noticing. It can be soul destroying but if you get the buzz you could grow to like it. Very small firms are a waste of time, no good experience, no pay, no study leave, and no name for the CV when looking for the next job

kluivert

I worked in a small practice worked on large clients.

Seen new clients come with audit files from one of the big four, not half enough tests and recording of results done, crossing referencing was non existent.

I thought that their file would have more detail than ours, it depends on the practice really.

Like everything else there are good ones and bads one.

I now work in the industry, this is my second year, working my way up in that direction. Good to have the experience from both sides.

It also depends what you are interested in yourself to specialise in ie tax audit financial management etc.

dooloo

Depends on what you want to do after you've qualified.

If you want to stay in practice and fancy setting up on your own, you would be better off going to a smaller size firm or medium size firm to get the overall broad experience of audit, bookkeeping, taxation which you would not get in a larger firm. Also keep in mind that once you have qualified from a small firm, the Big 4 are always on the look out for qualified seniors. On this point, you would probably be better off having qualified in a mid tier firm as this would give you a better chance of getting in to the Big 4.

On the other hand, if you would prefer to work in a large company in industry or to go travelling once you have qualified, then train in the Big 4 if you can. The opportunities are endless.

Can only speak from my experience. I went into big building contractors after training in small practise, and was part of a team of 10 accountants, and about 20 trainees. Of the 10 qualifieds, the top 2 or 3 were all from small practise, and had the best handle on drafting and analysising an actual set of accounts.

hockeygirl

Ive been following this thread with interest. The opinion of small or big4 practice varies alot.

I have to say Im a bit confusued and worried. Is there anyone here who has worked in both?

I am starting a ACA training contract within a small family run firm in dublin in August
I have a 2.2 in physics... if I had a 2.1 or a 1st I might have been lucky to get into a big4 as I have financial experience behind me. but it was not to be, so I count myself lucky to have been offered a trainee position in the small firm

Im abit worried about progression to the big 4 or midtire firms once Ive qualified. Also the fact the I was told in the interview that 2 of last years trainees have left mid contract. Is it unusual for trainees to up and leave or is this a reflection on the firm?

Legend100

I wouldn't worry about the fact that people left mid contract. It happens in almost all firms and more often than not it's just because they found out accountancy wasn't for them. I have friends in Big 4 firms who said people leave all the time because it's not for them once they get a hang of it. Some leave because they don't like the firm but i'd say overall that its not a reflection on the individual firm but more on the actual work itself.

The decison on Big 4 or small firm really depends on what you would like to do afterwards. Being trained in a small firm will give you more of a rounded training as you will touch on all areas especially accounts prep whereas in the big 4 you'll be in a specialised area and will learn more about that area. It does really help to be Big 4 trained if you intend on moving into industry in a bigger fim though as there is often a tendancy to cherry pick the top Big 4 trained accountants.

Unfortunately no matter which one you go with you still have to do the exams and they are a pain.....totally failed my prof 3 MABF today!

hockeygirl

Thanks Legend100!

I think Im just worrying myself. It could be the case that the trainees that left were fresh from college and weren't used to high pressured work environment. Im 26 and out of college 2 yrs and have experienced all that already so hopefully I'll be ok from that respect.

I have no idea in general what to expect though. I hope I'll do well. Its mad really. I have a friend who is audit trained and qualified through E&Y and he found it difficult to get into a small practice as the werent willing to match his high salary as they would have to re-train him in some things
He eventually settled in one though so good for him

Are you sure you failed you exam??? You probably did better than you think. I have heard they are very difficult. Ive no exemptions so starting from scratch

Are the classes on every weekend?? I play hockey and it would suck if I missed all my matches… but these are the sacrafices you have to make.

It will be worth it in the end once I qualify… if I qualify that is

schumacher

thanks for all the advice! its so hard to know because i dont really want to live in Dublin for 3/ 3 and a half years,

hockeygirl

schumacher... dublins not all bad... loads of nice peeps... take me for example!!

Honestly though. The training salary for an accountant is quite poor. So youd be living on the poverty line for a year. If you go to a small practice whice is not in dublin you could be on considerably less.

I know a girl in Galway that started last year on 16k!
Unless your Big4 where the salary is probably standard for all offices....

Jees just realised the time... burning cd for a friend... what the hell am I doing

Good luck with your decision