Where are the wider roads.

kluivert

With vehicles getting longer and wider with every new version introduced when are they going to widen the roads to accommodate them.

Take an average car, and compare a 10-15 year old car and compare it to todays model. The new Astra is wider than the first Astra but you can guarantee the roads arent.

Well not in Monaghan anyway.

alias no.9

There has been a massive amount of road widening over the last 15 years. Methinks a trip back in time would open your eyes. Even apart from the motorway network and national primary road network, the worst sections of many small roads with high traffic volumes have been improved. Sure there are sections of road all over the country that haven't changes much in that time, but these generally have low traffic volumes. The changes have been slow and incremental in many places but to say there have been none is very short sighted.

Run_to_da_hills

Maybe down certain parts of the country but certainly not in urban Dublin where they have made roads narrower and more treacherous for motorcyclists in the last 10 years at the expense of QBC's and cycle lanes. Example: along the grand canal. Merrion road, Northumberland road. etc.

Stealdo

Surely car manufacturers should be building cars that fit on the roads provided, rather than the state running around trying to build roads wide enough to accomodate the cars that the manufacturers have built?

L1011

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Maybe down certain parts of the country but certainly not in urban Dublin where they have made roads narrower and more treacherous for motorcyclists in the last 10 years at the expense of QBC's and cycle lanes. Example: along the grand canal. Merrion road, Northumberland road. etc.

'for motorcyclists who weave through traffic rather than keeping their correct position on the road', I presume you mean?

blackbox

Stealdo wrote: »

Surely car manufacturers should be building cars that fit on the roads provided, rather than the state running around trying to build roads wide enough to accomodate the cars that the manufacturers have built?

In general, cars are safer when they are wider:

Better road-holding
Less likely to roll over
Better crumple zones to protect occupants in the event of an impact

WHITE_P

Cars are getting wider because of all the extra safety kit that is being fitted to them, Side Air Bags and Side Impact Protection Beams etc.

Our roads for the most part will never be up to best practice standards, as long as our government and councils / corporations continue to redevelope / improve them at the snails pace they currently are.

Where possible all road works should work 24 hours a day and be properly project managed, with least impact to existing roads.

Esel

Stealdo wrote: »

Surely car manufacturers should be building cars that fit on the roads provided, rather than the state running around trying to build roads wide enough to accomodate the cars that the manufacturers have built?

Think about what you wrote!

"Available now: the 2008 Mercedes Benz range in Irish size: 7:8 scale, just to fit those narrow roads...". Those pesky manufacturers.

badlyparkedmerc

Cars are getting bigger also because manufacturers want someone who's been happily driving an Astra, Focus or Golf but now needs or wants a slightly bigger car to consider now buying the "same" model which has probably been reliable for him in the past and is now bigger.

In this way buyers can buy the same model and trade up in size simultaneously.

Otherwise that buyer may need to change model, and if they're changing model are more likely to consider changing manufacturer as well.

cyclopath2001

blackbox wrote: »

In general, cars are safer when they are wider:
Better road-holding, Less likely to roll over, Better crumple zones to protect occupants in the event of an impact

That's all true, but it's based on people's current aspirations to have powerful comfortable (and expensive) cars that the manufacturers are happy to sell.

There is another way: just lower the maximum speed limit.

The safety equipment needed for 120kph+ driving adds to weight and fuel consumption. Unnecessary speed adds to risk and also to fuel consumption.

Reduce speed and driving gets cheaper for everyone and traffic will flow better too as merging will be easier and safer.

I think 90kph is the most fuel efficient speed now?

bman

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's all true, but it's based on people's current aspirations to have powerful comfortable (and expensive) cars that the manufacturers are happy to sell.

There is another way: just lower the maximum speed limit.

The safety equipment needed for 120kph+ driving adds to weight and fuel consumption. Unnecessary speed adds to risk and also to fuel consumption.

Reduce speed and driving gets cheaper for everyone and traffic will flow better too as merging will be easier and safer.

I think 90kph is the most fuel efficient speed now?

You're hilarious!!

L1011

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's all true, but it's based on people's current aspirations to have powerful comfortable (and expensive) cars that the manufacturers are happy to sell.

There is another way: just lower the maximum speed limit.

The safety equipment needed for 120kph+ driving adds to weight and fuel consumption. Unnecessary speed adds to risk and also to fuel consumption.

Reduce speed and driving gets cheaper for everyone and traffic will flow better too as merging will be easier and safer.

I think 90kph is the most fuel efficient speed now?

Is it possible for you to make a post where you don't fundamentally attack motoring?

The safety equipment for a car to do 90kmh is no larger, heavier or more complicated than that for 120kmh. If we dropped our speed limits, the specification of cars sold here would not change - has it not dawned on you that we haven't manufactured cars in Ireland for about 20 years or more?

The fuel consumption of doing 120kmh over doing 90kmh in a modern car is barely different.

Merging is not a major issue on the few roads here with 120kmh limits - motorways or high quality dual carriageways. The only motorway with a large number of junctions is the M50, which carries a 100kmh limit.

The safety differential between doing 120kmh and 100kmh on a motorway or HQDC - which are the safest type of road possible despite higher speeds - would be immesurable. You just don't - and can't - have head on collisions, this is where terminal speed has the most importance.

So, none of your post has any weight at all. Funny, that...

biko

Since the designers of BMW and Chrysler don't live in Monaghan I don't think it ever dawned on them that roads could be narrower than in Germany or US.

It's because the consumers (us) wants big cars to reflect our sudden wealth.
Sure if everyone drove Micras there wouldn't be a problem.

WHITE_P

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's all true, but it's based on people's current aspirations to have powerful comfortable (and expensive) cars that the manufacturers are happy to sell.

There is another way: just lower the maximum speed limit.

The safety equipment needed for 120kph+ driving adds to weight and fuel consumption. Unnecessary speed adds to risk and also to fuel consumption.

Reduce speed and driving gets cheaper for everyone and traffic will flow better too as merging will be easier and safer.

I think 90kph is the most fuel efficient speed now?

Good god man do you ever give up with your anti speed rubbish, I never seen such anti motoring BS in all my life, the only bit of this that makes any resonable sense is "traffic will flow better too as merging will be easier and safer" and this would really only apply on single carriageway roads, as for the rest of it same old crap as usual from you.

Speed has little to do with the width of our roads.

Anan1

MYOB wrote: »

Is it possible for you to make a post where you don't fundamentally attack motoring?

WHITE_P wrote: »

Good god man do you ever give up with your anti speed rubbish, I never seen such anti motoring BS in all my life, the only bit of this that makes any resonable sense is "traffic will flow better too as merging will be easier and safer" as for the rest of it same old crap as usual from you.

Speed has little to do with the width of our roads.

I love driving, and i'd hate to see cyclopath2001's proposals introduced. He does have a perfect right to his point of view though, particularly seeing as he's actually right (if it were done worldwide).

WindSock

Surely it would be easier to ban Hummers being purchased rather than widening every single road in the country to accomodate them.

L1011

Anan1 wrote: »

I love driving, and i'd hate to see cyclopath2001's proposals introduced. He does have a perfect right to his point of view though, particularly seeing as he's actually right (if it were done worldwide).

He's not right in the majority of his post (safety equipment) and barely right in the rest (fuel consumption, merging - its just as safe assuming people merge at the right speed, which nobody in Ireland does)

That and he's bundled it all together with his standard anti-motorist vitriol. Can people be banned from Motors for trolling?

Robbo

MYOB wrote: »

That and he's bundled it all together with his standard anti-motorist vitriol. Can people be banned from Motors for trolling?

How about just appending a disclaimer to each of his posts?

"The views espoused here are about as well founded as King Herod's views on childcare"

Anan1

MYOB wrote: »

He's not right in the majority of his post (safety equipment) and barely right in the rest (fuel consumption, merging - its just as safe assuming people merge at the right speed, which nobody in Ireland does)

Ah lookit, he's as right as most people are here most of the time.;)

MYOB wrote: »

That and he's bundled it all together with his standard anti-motorist vitriol. Can people be banned from Motors for trolling?

Just because you (and maybe I) don't agree with it doesn't make it trolling. Do you really want a happy-clappy forum where everyone holds hands?

WHITE_P

Anan1 wrote: »

I love driving, and i'd hate to see cyclopath2001's proposals introduced. He does have a perfect right to his point of view though, particularly seeing as he's actually right (if it were done worldwide).

I used to love driving, before all this PC crap became the main focus of public attention, we had cars that were not loaded with so called safety features, roads that were no where near as well constructed as they are now (even if we still have a long way to go), and most people minded their own business. So while he is just as entitled to his opinion as any of the rest of us, must he try and turn every post he makes on the motors forum into a "Speed Kills" or similar post.

Anan1

WHITE_P wrote: »

I used to love driving, before all this PC crap became the main focus of public attention, we had cars that were not loaded with so called safety features, roads that were no where near as well constructed as they are now (even if we still have a long way to go), and most people minded their own business. So while he is just as entitled to his opinion as any of the rest of us, must he try and turn every post he makes on the motors forum into a "Speed Kills" or similar post.

You need balance in these things. I loved the old way too, and I milked it to the max. Still do, when conditions allow. There was and is a price to be paid though, and it's hardly a crime to be reminded of that once in a while.

L1011

Anan1 wrote: »

Just because you (and maybe I) don't agree with it doesn't make it trolling. Do you really want a happy-clappy forum where everyone holds hands?

Its possible for someone to hold differing views and not be a troll. However, someone who holds and agenda, does not post on anything other than that agenda, and twists as many threads and topics as possible to that agenda is a troll.

peasant

To steer this discussion back on topic ...

Ireland is not the only country with narrow roads.

Any traditional village in France or Italy would make your standard Irish road appear like an autobahn.

Certain mountain roads in Switzerland, Italy or Austria also spring to mind.

Anan1

MYOB wrote: »

Its possible for someone to hold differing views and not be a troll. However, someone who holds and agenda, does not post on anything other than that agenda, and twists as many threads and topics as possible to that agenda is a troll.

No they're not, they're just opinionated. I mean come on, look at his user name!:D

Anan1

peasant wrote: »

To steer this discussion back on topic ...

Ireland is not the only country with narrow roads.

Any traditional village in France or Italy would make your standard Irish road appear like an autobahn.

Certain mountain roads in Switzerland, Italy or Austria also spring to mind.

How right you are. I've had Garmin try to send me down French tracks that I physically couldn't fit a Mondeo estate into.

cyclopath2001

peasant wrote: »

Ireland is not the only country with narrow roads.

So do we destroy or beautiful countryside or find a way to use the space more effeciently?

New, 'outside-of-the-box' thinking is needed and old assumptions need to be challenged.

peasant

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

So do we destroy or beautiful countryside or find a way to use the space more effeciently?

New, 'outside-of-the-box' thinking is needed and old assumptions need to be challenged.

Neither, actually

You will find that the "market" adjusts itself.

You will find that in regions with lots of narrow roads people simply buy cars that fit.

Maybe a re-adjustment is due in Ireland, now that the economy is slowing and people will remember how much easier it was to get around in their old Micra compared to the new, flash bloatmobile.

WHITE_P

peasant wrote: »

flash bloatmobile.

Now that is funny. Go on ya good thing.:D

L1011

WHITE_P wrote: »

Now that is funny. Go on ya good thing.:D

I prefer Mr Pudding (I think)'s term for it - Luxobarge. Sounds like an actual brand from the 1920s, when a boat maker decided 'we better make road vehicles'

peasant

well ..a Luxobarge implies that it is somewhat luxurious ...however you can buy bloated cars that are far from it.

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

'for motorcyclists who weave through traffic rather than keeping their correct position on the road', I presume you mean?

There are motorcyclists that weave in and out of traffic and there are others that filter through traffic, theres a difference.

Pete67

Surely if the roads are roads are suitable for commercial vehicles and buses, then even the largest cars should not have a problem negotiating them?

cyclopath2001

When I see a Hyundai Santa Fe, I'm always reminded of the 'Canyonaro' from the Simpsons.

WHITE_P

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

When I see a Hyundai Santa Fe, I'm always reminded of the 'Canyonaro' from the Simpsons.

That's actually small in terms of 4x4's. Me thinks you have spatial awareness issues.

Robbo

WHITE_P wrote: »

That's actually small in terms of 4x4's. Me thinks you have spatial awareness issues.

Maybe it's because it's endorsed by misguidedly avaricious clowns?

WHITE_P

Robbo wrote: »

Maybe it's because it's endorsed by misguidedly avaricious clowns?

I'm not endorsing the Santa Fe or any other 4x4, even thought I do drive a 4x4 for work purposes, and it does spend alot of time off road.

My point was that the Santa Fe is small by comparison to many other 4x4's. Where as the Canyonaro was ludicriously over sized, even by American standards.