Where to get your PPL?

rav1410

Hi all.

I'm thinking about going for a PPL and ultimitly a career change into aviation if things go well.

I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has done this recently or even thinking about doing this,

Whats your views on the way the market is going? Do you think aviation will experience a major slowdown and there will be millions of pilots looking for a job in the coming years?

So first where would you guys recommend for me to get my PPL?

Then am I crazy for wanting to go into this industry with the way things are these days?

Positive and negative comments welcome.

PS. Im from Louth but willing to travel. Inside Ireland for PPL then anywhere for commercial training.

chickenhawk

I can't suggest anywhere in Ireland to do the PPL cause I just don't know how good or bad any places are. But once you start your PPL you will hear lots of things about where to do your CPL e.g in the states etc.

So for the moment just focus on the PPL in Weston or somewhere similar. Just visit the places near you and judge for yourself. Availability and standard of planes and instructors should be what you are looking at. When you get the foot in the door it is easier to decide where to go from there.

Flyer1

Hi there, I would reccomend staying away from Weston like it has the plague. It's a terrible training environment, it's horribly expensive and the training there isn't of a great standard. Aero Club 2000 in abbeyshrule would be reasonably near you. I would however reccomend shopping around. You could save up a few bob and pop over to Florida and do it in 3 or 4 weeks, but the training isn't exactly wonderful over there.

rav1410

Flyer1 wrote: »

Hi there, I would reccomend staying away from Weston like it has the plague. It's a terrible training environment, it's horribly expensive and the training there isn't of a great standard. Aero Club 2000 in abbeyshrule would be reasonably near you. I would however reccomend shopping around. You could save up a few bob and pop over to Florida and do it in 3 or 4 weeks, but the training isn't exactly wonderful over there.

3 or 4 weeks?

Are you serious? I was talking about it to the Mrs and was telling her about Florida, She was happy when I said we might be going over for a year or so but 3-4 Weeks????

Is your qualification then recognised in Europe?

How qualified are you after that short a time?

Thank you for your reply.

ImDave

Hi,

I have finished my PPL recently with Atlantic Flight Centre in Cork. I could not recommend them more. They have an excellent setup, really friendly atmosphere and the instructors are top notch. The aircraft are all quite new, consisting of 4 C-172's and one Grob 115. One of the 172's was purchased from new only late last year. Flying for PPL is currently €180 per hour. You are flying in an International Airport, which I feel is a great bonus as you get exposed to the working enviroment of commercial aviation from day 1. Despite the airport being fairly busy, students are accommadated quite well by the airport. A number of times I have managed 6 touch and go's in less than an hour, which isn't too bad at all. The have a good online booking system for all the aircraft, and they teach the ground school in house also. Recently, they became Ireland's first stand alone ATPL ground course. You can do the full CPL IR/ME with them also, which you can do full/part time. They have a Senaca complex twin with good availability. I'd say give them a call, or call down to have a look for yourself. Good luck.

Ockham

Hello, Just thought id throw in my 2 cents here. I went to a flight school in Tulsa Oklahoma.Has good weather and its considerably cheaper to fly there but its based at an airport with parallel runways and something like 300000 operations per year on average. Loads and loads of other training aircraft and private jets to mix with so you have that experience. I loved it took about 7ish weeks for PPL.
With regards to the state of the market it depends on who you ask really.Theres a big thread on pprune entitled something like ''evidence the downturn is upon us'' plenty of arguments back and forth there. My opinion is you have to be in it to win it so if its a dream go for it.

rav1410

Ockham wrote: »

Hello, Just thought id throw in my 2 cents here. I went to a flight school in Tulsa Oklahoma.Has good weather and its considerably cheaper to fly there but its based at an airport with parallel runways and something like 300000 operations per year on average. Loads and loads of other training aircraft and private jets to mix with so you have that experience. I loved it took about 7ish weeks for PPL.
With regards to the state of the market it depends on who you ask really.Theres a big thread on pprune entitled something like ''evidence the downturn is upon us'' plenty of arguments back and forth there. My opinion is you have to be in it to win it so if its a dream go for it.

I wont ask what you paid but what kind of % would you save from doing it over there to here?

Also, did you work part-time while you were being trained? or is it a full time course, Im just wondering about expensices over there, Dont get me wrong its not all about the money but I would like to know if I need to build up a nice bit of capital before heading over? (Training fees excluded)

Ockham

I did it full time. Money wise i just got as much together as i could and it got me through. I dont know what percentage i saved but to give you some idea an hour here costs 180ish euro and there its just over 100 dollars. Average hours for a ppl would be 60ish i suppose so thats 10800 euro versus 6000 dollars. Big difference. Living costs arent expensive either. Another element of training to consider is the continuity.Your there to fly and thats all you do maybe in the air three times a day if your lucky.Makes the learning more fluid.

Flyer1

www.flyoba.com is the crowd most lads go to for PPL. A lot of guys I know have done it in 3 - 4 weeks, it's intensive but it'll get you that piece of paper.

When you qualify you'll have a UK JAA PPL which is valid in any JAA member state. Now be careful shopping around Florida as a lot of schools are only FAA approved and can only train you for an American licence.

What I will say about the training to a PPL level anyway over there is that it gets you a licence, and quickly, but when you come home you gotta start learning to fly all over again. If I was starting out again i'd go straight to OBA and get it done and dusted as it seems to take an eternity here.

rav1410

Ockham wrote: »

I did it full time. Money wise i just got as much together as i could and it got me through. I dont know what percentage i saved but to give you some idea an hour here costs 180ish euro and there its just over 100 dollars. Average hours for a ppl would be 60ish i suppose so thats 10800 euro versus 6000 dollars. Big difference. Living costs arent expensive either. Another element of training to consider is the continuity.Your there to fly and thats all you do maybe in the air three times a day if your lucky.Makes the learning more fluid.

Nice one.

Did you go on to do your CPL there also?

Ockham

No i havent got my CPL yet did my PPL and hour building with them and im about a month away from the end of my ATPL with Bristol. I think ill probably do the rest of my training in England. Good Luck with it mate.

rav1410

Flyer1 wrote: »

www.flyoba.com is the crowd most lads go to for PPL. A lot of guys I know have done it in 3 - 4 weeks, it's intensive but it'll get you that piece of paper.

When you qualify you'll have a UK JAA PPL which is valid in any JAA member state. Now be careful shopping around Florida as a lot of schools are only FAA approved and can only train you for an American licence.

What I will say about the training to a PPL level anyway over there is that it gets you a licence, and quickly, but when you come home you gotta start learning to fly all over again. If I was starting out again i'd go straight to OBA and get it done and dusted as it seems to take an eternity here.

OBA is a nice looking operation and very reasonably priced

When you say if you were starting out again you would go to OBA and get it dusted, do you mean right up to CPL?

cp251

Hi there, I would reccomend staying away from Weston like it has the plague. It's a terrible training environment, it's horribly expensive and the training there isn't of a great standard..................

That can't go unanswered but it is utter BS! You will get as good training at one of the flying schools in Weston as you will get anywhere. That's from personal experience. There is nothing wrong with the training environment either. Where did you get that idea from? Yes it is expensive, but flying is expensive everywhere particularly in Ireland. I've no idea whether Aero Club 2000 is good or bad but Abbeyshrule isn't exactly convenient to Louth.

www.flyoba.com is the crowd most lads go to for PPL. A lot of guys I know have done it in 3 - 4 weeks, it's intensive but it'll get you that piece of paper.

If you're lucky and the weather and aircraft availability and you forget you're in Florida and simply get on with the flying.

In truth rav do plenty of research before plumping for one or other school. In all probability if you're serious about flying as a career. You need to look around at the various possibilities.

Personally I would recommend you start by taking a few lessons here to test the water and see whether it's what you really want. Then get the money together to start training seriously. I also suggest you check out PPRuNe as there is plenty of info there on training and how to get started flying.

In truth most people end up doing part of their training in the US even those who go for the most expensive integrated courses. But if you want a career in Ireland it's good to have contacts in this country. It's all about networking.

The one thing to remember is that whatever you think it will cost, it will always cost more.

ImDave

Hi there, I would reccomend staying away from Weston like it has the plague. It's a terrible training environment, it's horribly expensive and the training there isn't of a great standard..................

It's interesting to hear that from someone else. I personally have no experience or knowledge of Weston, however, Weston is the one place out of the three main schools in Ireland I was advised to stay away from. I can't remember the reasons but I know that it was not to do with training standards.

wittymoniker

weston is a great place to learn, lots of schools to choose from there, so anyone who tells you to 'avoid it like the plague' doesn't know what they're talking about.

first thing anyone should do is get a class 1 medical before they shell out a penny.

Flyer1

Look lads, i've flown in and out of weston more times then i've got fingers and toe's to count, in anything from a 2 seat 70knot airplane to a 12 seater 300knot airplane, ye don't have to slate me, I know the place, it's not a nice airport, I remember one day up there a few years ago, a guy was due to go solo but due to airport restrictions he couldn't solo off a certain runway, imagine that on what should be the best day of your flying life. ( flying is full of disappointment, but the positives always outweigh the negatives )

Don't get me wrong, Weston used to be a lovely airport and was a great spot up until about 5 years ago when it outgrew it's boots by about 10 times. The powers that be up there don't care about light aircraft, they're interested in how big you are, how much money they can make and how soon they can get more jet traffic in.

Learning to fly in Ireland is about as practical as knockers on a bull. The PPL exams are only once every 2 months, and you've got to travel to Dublin for those, ohh and if you fail one you'll have to wait another 2 months to repeat. For stuff like Navigation the weather is totally unfavourable ( ie you could be waiting months to do your qualifier ). Organising the flight test is like trying to juggle 15 balls and run along a plank at the same time.

To be brute and honest, people will tell you this that and the other, there are no wrongs and no rights.

If time and money are no issue, then by all means do it here in Ireland but do be prepared to be somewhat frustrated with it all.

If you want to get it done, out of the way and in the bag in minimum time go to Florida, but do be prepared to do a few hours with an instructor when you get home.

It's your money, it's your choice, choose wisely.

Preset No.3

wittymoniker wrote: »

weston is a great place to learn, lots of schools to choose from there, so anyone who tells you to 'avoid it like the plague' doesn't know what they're talking about.
QUOTE]


So I dont know what Im talking about? I think I do and avoid Weston like the plague! Apart form the huge training costs in heaps of scrap aircraft ( not naming any one company in particular), theres the landing fees. If youre not part of the 'click' you wont get anywhere! It put me off learning to fly until I went to Waterford!

Is there anyone thats gone through there that has actually passed the ppl in the 55 hours!? I DO know what Im talking about, if you can avoid weston do so! Mate of mine did the ppl, took him 70 hours, through no fault of his own, just another reason to screw some money out of you!

wittymoniker

theres the landing fees.

there are landing fees in waterford too

Is there anyone thats gone through there that has actually passed the ppl in the 55 hours!?

plenty of my students passed in the required time, 45 hrs btw, not 55.

Mate of mine did the ppl, took him 70 hours, through no fault of his own, just another reason to screw some money out of you!

the 45 hours is a minimum, dependes on ability.

jmayo

rav1410,
a few people here have posted some good advice.
Check out if you actually like flying and then check if you can first pass basic medical and then medical for commerical license.

Also I would recommend Florida, although the school I went to is no lonegr in operation for JAR.
But if you expect to do a PPL in three weeks it is only possible if you have already fully covered the ground exams, are really dedicated to the flying (up at 7 ready to go for 8 much cooler), and you have a pretty reasonable aptitude for flying.

You will always get the ones this side of the pond stating you will be just churned out as a ppl and won't have good standard of training. That is absolute cr**, yes radio will be slightly different back here and weather poses way different problems but the guys over there are training day in day out and uasually are a pretty decent bunch.
You will get to have intensive training (not waiting around for months for right day), you probably will get to visit some interesting airfields (nothing like sitting while a Mustang taxies by you or watching out for a lear jet on approach to parallel runway) or having a buzz while taking care to avoid live USAF training areas.
You will get to be immersed in nothing but flying for a few weeks and usually meet an interesting bunch who will probably like nothing better than kicking back discussing flying while having a few beers.

But check out any school and never pay upfront for all training.
Also if you are having problems with instructor talk to someone and demand a change. It is your money.

Sadly a problem with the likes of Weston and indeed most airfields this side of the pond is that aviation often attracts some proper knobs, who are only there because they have the money for flying and it's a status thing.
Saying that there are a lot of decent helpful people about who get tarred with the same brush.

Flyer1

wittymonkier, there's no landing fee's if you fly with the Waterford Aero Club, however a well known commercial school is a different story.

The flying rates break down as follows €125 a TACHO hour for the Brand new Tecnam P2002-JF, which works at about an average of €90 an hour and then the price of your instructor on top, which is €50 an hour. So for no more then €140 an hour you get first class training, in a new airplane with no hidden extra's, that ain't half bad.

wittymoniker

fair rate alright, waterford's just not too accessable for a lot of folk.

it's not fair to dismiss weston out of hand though, i've flown and worked there for the last 20 years and enjoyed every day of it. it's not all about the flying, i think it's a great place to immerse yourself in the aviation community. on any given day you have 747 drivers hanging out with 1st solos.

cp251

I'm with wittymoniker. It isn't fair to dismiss Weston's flying schools and Weston itself out of hand. I've done a lot of flyiing there over the years and I really don't recognise all the criticism it often receives. As for the clique, I often read about. I'm not a member and I don't know where they hold their secret meetings.:rolleyes:

There is no point in learning to fly with an aeroclub unless all you want to do is to get a PPL. It's a club. Yes it is cheaper because it's a club not a business. But there won't be full time Instructors. You can't simply ring up and book a lesson for Tueday at 9am. You can't decide to devote a whole week to flying unless your Instructor takes time off from his or her full time job too. But it's a good way to learn to fly, if all you want is a PPL.

Is there anyone thats gone through there that has actually passed the ppl in the 55 hours!? I DO know what Im talking about, if you can avoid weston do so! Mate of mine did the ppl, took him 70 hours, through no fault of his own, just another reason to screw some money out of you!

If you know what you're talking about, how come you think 55 hours is the requirement for the PPL? A lot of people take 70 hours to get their PPL. I took longer, no one was screwing money out of me. It came down to my ability, weather, lack of money and poor training from two flying schools now no longer with us. Almost no one gets their PPL in the minimum hours UNLESS you go full time and have virtually perfect weather. You can if you like do the PPL full time in Ireland. But the main problem is, as ever our dodgy weather. Even when you're ready, the weather can delay a flight test for months.

So of course, most people who want to fly for a living, go away to America or Spain or wherever for their training. I've hardly met a professional pilot who hasn't been to the States at some stage. Quite a few PPL's too.

I can't stand this tendency by some people to slag off Irish flying schools particularly in Weston. Particularly when it's inaccurate.

Preset No.3

Ok lads it was 6am and I was tired. 45 hours for the minimum accepted.

Is there anyone thats gone through weston and passed in 45 hours? Probably not, but I stand corrected. My own personal experience of weston is that if your not part of the click, then you tend to get dumped on to several different instructors, no wonder you dont get your ppl in 45 hours. In 2 years of flying, I had 6 different instructors. Its difficult to keep one guy. That seems to be a common complaint from students I know.

Obiviously I cant comment on the ability of my mate, but I go on his stories. There may be people that have good things to say about Weston, but my own experience isnt good at all. However I am on course to have my ppl(h) in under 50 hours training in the uk.

Lets see if the members out at weston pick up their socks when Newcastle is ready to go.

ImDave

Preset No.3 wrote: »

In 2 years of flying, I had 6 different instructors. Its difficult to keep one guy. That seems to be a common complaint from students I know.

It's very hard for you to have the same instructor for every flight you take. All instructors should be well capable of teaching any aspect of the course, and just have to take up from where your file left of on your previous flight. I know it's less than ideal having a number of instructors, but it isn't really a bad thing. I have had between 5 and 6 instructors so far, and I believe that I am all the better of it. You tend to pick up loads of little tips and tricks from various instructors.

As long as your school runs a proper student filing system, where a lesson review is filled out after every slot, there shouldnt be any problem.

cp251

The reality is that virtually no one gets their PPL in 45 hours. Unless you are full time, highly motivated, enjoy good weather and are talented enough not to require much revision. As often as not those requirements are met in places with good weather and occasionally in places where the the examiner sets a low enough standard, (It happens).

The fact is 45 hours is the minimum. It's not a target. This isn't always spelt out to people keen to learn to fly. I have heard the norm is around 60 hours.

I am on course to have my ppl(h) in under 50 hours training in the uk.

You didn't mention helicopters before! Good luck to you and I hope you do actually make in less than 50 hours. But if it creeps up to 55 or 60, you'll understand.

Preset No.3

cp251 wrote: »

You didn't mention helicopters before! .

Done fixed wing for a while, but then transfered to the dark side! :D:D

jumpmad

Westons grand, the only thing that delays learning there is the weather, instructors are good and if your not happy with one insist that you change to another. I got my PPL withNFC adn found them great both before and after I got my PPL.

rav1410

Thanks for the advice lads,

My parents live next door to an Aer Lingus Instructor so I guess she is my next port of call on this subject.

Thanks again for helpful replies everyone

David.

cp251

Aer Lingus Instructor? I imagine her advice would be to go for an integrated course at one of the big and expensive aviation schools. I could be wrong of course. But as a rule, which they deny, Aer Lingus have a preference for pilots who did integrated courses at places like Oxford and FTE in Spain.

Find a Ryanair pilot, they usually did it the hard way.:D