Lisbon: The aftermath

skelliser

I managed to read thru must of the important issues of the treaty. I studied both the yes and no campaigns and i alone discounted the majority of the no sides arguements, such as the issues of neutraility and tax. By and large i concluded that we didnt gain much but didnt lose much, in fact i think the status que was more or less retained.
I also concluded that if the treaty was passed that in any further treaty i would vote no because im not in favour of anymore integration or delegation of power to brussels, which i believe would be the next step in the next 5-10 years.
So i voted yes.
The result was a comfortable no. I accept and respect this result.
However the reaction of the likes of barosso and sarkozy is quite frankly astonishing and disgraceful. To arrogantly and blatantly ignore the wishes of a member states democratic decision has greatly angered me. So much so that im a commited euro-skeptic now. The more i think of it the more
annoyed i get. I will be voting no from now on in any EU treaty.

This has left us in a strange position, the leaders in europe have quite clearly set out there stall, the treaty goes on, where does that leave biffo?
As i see it there is little he can do except to run it again or give it to us in drips and draps. I think we will get it again.
Biffo and the rest have not even ruled it out, only labour have.
I expect to hear the notion that we were too confused/didnt understand the issues etc to be pushed quietly in the begining and gradually more and more over the next few weeks so the main parties can build up a consensus and position in order to run the treaty again.

I for one am greatly opposed to a re-run, not only does it undermine our democracy but it will undermine our position in europe, we'll be walk overs!
Any yes voter i have spoken to agrees with my sentiments. If we do get it again, its and instant no from me! followed by a guy fawkes/v for vendetta style explosion in the dail!!:p

sink

I think by the time we get round to another referendum a lot of the no voters might regret their decision. The consequences of the not vote have no panned out fully yet, but whatever they are it's bad news for Ireland.

Kama

The consequences of the not vote have no panned out fully yet, but whatever they are it's bad news for Ireland.

What the consequences of a No vote will be are, like many future events, not yet known. Scaremongering doesn't increase our level of understanding, as has been made clear throughout this debate.

The automatic assumption that the European sky will fall on our heads, in some unspecified fashion, follows automatically from the earlier (mildly threatening, and implicitly coercive) prognostications of dire outcomes in the event of an 'incorrect' vote, and how woefully we will regret our collective democratic sins.

Simply, we don't know yet.
As the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'.

Sophievdp

sink wrote: »

I think by the time we get round to another referendum a lot of the no voters might regret their decision. The consequences of the not vote have no panned out fully yet, but whatever they are it's bad news for Ireland.

so what were the bad consequences for France and the Netherlands?? this treaty was only around 10% different, if even, to the constitution they voted against, and they weren't punished or sidelined for saying no.

Breezer

Very worrying sentiments coming from Sarkozy and Napolianato of Italy regarding either letting the other states ratify and operate under Lisbon and leaving us on the outside, or simply removing us from the EU. While I very much doubt the latter will happen, the former is very very worrying. Europe is taking this very seriously.

While I agree with your sentiments OP, and my heart would tell this committed Yes voter to reject a second referendum, I think my head would tell me to continue supporting what I supported in the first place, and what in my opinion is best for Ireland.

Sink could well be right, if the consequences do materialize. On the other hand, if the EU allows Cowen a second chance, and the re-vote is put to us before the consequences kick in, I think many people might come out to 'defend democracy' as the OP suggested. So does Cowen allow Ireland to suffer in the short term in order to secure long term gain, or does he do his best for the people he represents now only to potentially see them scupper any chance of reconciliation with Europe in the long run? Rock, meet hard place. I would not like to be in Brian Cowen's shoes right now.

tolosenc

Breezer wrote: »

Sink could well be right, if the consequences do materialize. On the other hand, if the EU allows Cowen a second chance, and the re-vote is put to us before the consequences kick in, I think many people might come out to 'defend democracy' as the OP suggested. So does Cowen allow Ireland to suffer in the short term in order to secure long term gain, or does he do his best for the people he represents now only to potentially see them scupper any chance of reconciliation with Europe in the long run? Rock, meet hard place. I would not like to be in Brian Cowen's shoes right now.

He would be a fool not to let the No camp realise the consequences of their illinformed actions. They should realise what they've done. Firm yes voters will know what he's at.

I for one, will be firmly be committed to rubbishing the claims of the No camp next time round. If there is one.

If we are out on our ear, whatever about economics, I wouldn't like to be around for the social consequences - Pro-treaty vs anti-treaty, anyone?

RedPlanet

What Brian Cowen should do now, is to ring Gordon Brown and the other countries that haven't ratified Lisbon and ask them to cancel it.
He should be out looking for support amongst his counterparts.
The irish people have given him a mandate, and that was no to lisbon.
If he doesn't run with it, then he's actually working against the democratic wishes of the irish people.

I'm sure the irish government wants to hold the referenda again, but it's not like Nice 1, back then there was only 30% voter turnout. This time it was 53%, so the government cannot argue that the turnout was too small.

RedPlanet

RedPlanet wrote: »

I'm sure the irish government wants to hold the referenda again, but it's not like Nice 1, back then there was only 30% voter turnout. This time it was 53%, so the government cannot argue that the turnout was too small.

They'll probably argue though that the "don't know" voted"no" and that the likes of coir aka youth defence got the catholic vote out to vote "no" to abortion,prostitution and hard drugs...