The Aftermath of the Lisbon Treaty - Your View

DenMan

Thank you and Welcome.

The post below was one I recently put up and because of the responses received I feel I should make a thread about this. Please read the below post (It is quite long but I hope you can read it). Do you think I have gone too far or is it relevant to you. All responses are welcomed. Thank you.



First of all Ireland as a nation cannot sustain the current influx of foreign nationals to the state. Ireland really has only been standing on its own two feet for now for the past 15 years. When times are good (which they have been for 10-15 years) everybody is happy, the Celtic Tiger really succeeded. However when things are starting looking to bleak people will respond. My parent’s generation would have lived in bad times (70's and 80's) where emigration to Canada and Australia was really in overdrive. They were actually encouraging people to emigrate to Australia by paying them to do so.

My point is until people have actually lived through a recession they cannot really comprehend it. If people decide to stand up and take notice of the changing situation they are presumed by others to be racist. If unskilled migrants are taking Irish jobs now how are we going to feel when Romanians, Russians, Bulgarians, Maltese, Cretian, Hungarian etc decide to come over and fill the void left behind by the departing Polish workers. Let's not forget Polish people came to Ireland because of the cultural/historical similarities between the two nations. Catholism playing a very big part in Polish people’s minds coming here. When they do decide to go home the above mentioned countries people will come to Ireland and I will assure it will not be for cultural similarities.

This is a testing phase if you will. Unskilled workers coming to Ireland for work. What will happen in the near future when skilled workers who have learned the language (which is being taught to them by Irish people, I myself have been a T.E.F.L. teacher) come here. Architects, Accountants, Senior Management Positions, Science positions (including research) and teaching/lecturing positions will all be contested by all people, Irish obviously included. Then people will seriously start to take notice. That is why Ireland voted No. You simply cannot hand control of the state over to a council who will be more interested in appeasing all 500 million residents rather than a small nation with less than 1% of the entire population. People think long term, 10-20 years down the line, a generation or so into the future not a quick fix.

Read the posts by non Irish people thanking the Irish people for voting no. Let's not forget the Irish Government works for us. They were democratically elected by the Irish people to represent their interests both at home and abroad. So therefore in a democratically elected government what is their solution - to hand control of the state over to an international council? Do people not see a connection in Europe? If it were down to Europe they would have all governments and parliaments ratify The Lisbon Treaty without giving the people the voice to make the decisions....oh hang on a minute that's exactly what they are doing right now!!! Fortunately our courts require a referendum in order to amend our constitution.
I will say that Ireland has benefited tremendously from skilled migrants over the past 15 years or so and the Celtic Tiger would not have succeeded if it were not for their assistance. However, if they were European they were not EU members at that time. Now it much different with the enlargement of the EU, also a different time. With great booms also comes a crunch, a recession if you will. Ireland really has benefited from skilled migrants in the past but now with the scale of skilled/unskilled migrants it is a completely different ball game.

I lived and worked in Malta which is more North/North East African than European. They now have a huge problem with Libyan nationals in their country, similar to the Roma here. First the Libyan people landed by boat by accident thinking it were Italy and now they are flying in. If a small nation like that has problems you can only imagine what affect it could have on other countries. Malta only recently having become a member of the EU. The Maltese President objected wanting to send them all home and he was immediately shot down by the EU. And Libya is not even part of the European Union. Going to be very interesting times ahead here in Ireland

I am returning to full time education in Sept of this year because in the next 4-5 years I will be in a much better position than I am now. Thinking in working in Film/TV in either Spain or Dubai once I graduate. By the way I did vote No and all the scare mongering in the world did not have any influence on my decision.

Thank you for reading this.

aliqueenb

so oh yes you liked foreigners working here when they took only unskilled jobs that you didn't want but now they might take skilled jobs because they are more hardworking than the irish. you don't like that.
so you are gonna get a degree or whatever and move to dubai or spain and work there. racist hypocrite much?

DenMan

aliqueenb wrote: »

so oh yes you liked foreigners working here when they took only unskilled jobs that you didn't want but now they might take skilled jobs because they are more hardworking than the irish. you don't like that.
so you are gonna get a degree or whatever and move to dubai or spain and work there. racist hypocrite much?

I can see we are off to a good start here. I for one am very pleased Foreign Nationals have come to Ireland. Having worked abroad myself I know how some people can react to outsiders. I don't feel bound to Ireland. The work I do I will have to do it abroad as the industry is very small here in Ireland. It is really other peoples feedback I am looking for. Peace.

aliqueenb

you still voted no

limklad

I am pro European, but I voted NO but for several reasons.
1/. There was a reference in the treaty about changing the existing treaties without going back to the people for approval. This is undemocratic and it is part of the reason why the EU is becoming more remove from the people it is suppose to represent its’ citizens to the world.


We vote for every treaty that affects our governance, so why should we let foreign governments as well as our own incompetence government decide what format they should govern us, if lisbon is passed? Once over government agree to an amendment to a treaty is it difficult to change it afterwards. No matter how good a treaty is. This cannot not be allowed to happen.


2/. Brian Cowen gave out about the No campaign about the slogan “If you do not understand. Vote No”
In an Irish referendum, it is up to the government job to convince and explain to the people not blindly lead them to vote yes to change the constitution. After all for the Lisbon treaty to be effective, then the Irish constitution have to be amendment. This treaty is not only about Europe future but Irish Future and its people and our kids futures.


Many people I talk to were unsure so they too voted No or not vote at all because the government spent it time attacking the No side (who came up with some good points as well as rubbish points) rather than explaining the treaty fully.


3/. Opt outs and vetoes. Our Irish government have proven that they are not to be trusted when they claim to have these powers.
An Example of Lost Trust, A few years ago with our ex national airline Aer Lingus. The government sold it off but kept if I am not mistaking 25% stake in shares. They told us that they kept a stake so they could vetoes any business decisions that will effect national interests. Well last year crunch time came when Aer Lingus decide to move their Shannon to Heathrow (Non-Competition and Profitable) slots to Belfast to Heathrow Slots (Competitive slots – unsure of Profitability according to the Airline CEO). Michael O Leary (Ryanair) for his own agenda (Buying shares at the time) also put it up to the government and by calling an EGM. The government U turn and then claim that they could not veto. http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0814/aerlingus1.html


Government will always have their own agenda’s. If they want our approval then they must prove their worth it.


We were told for years that the EU is about co-operation and need unanimous support for major changes. Now let see how Europe Politicians reacts, to find out was it all a lie or do they mean what they say – peace and co-operation. The Test is now on.

DenMan

Now we are starting to get somewhere. Ireland, as a nation and European Member has campaigned for a more integrated and democratic Europe which it is the people who build a better society.

Europe as a bloc has to address many issues that the Irish people feel has not been discussed. What Nations leader advises the people to vote NO if they are unsure about the Treaty. Thank you to limklad for addressing the above concerns.

The co-operation and friendship between members of the European Union needs to be addressed. Ireland for one has been at the forefront of promoting these changes. Now it is time to go about implementing those policies in a fair and unified way. Not forcing them upon people in a manner in which they do not understand or comprehend the decisions being made on their behalf. One Europe, one voice. The people, all 500 million of us not a select few on an international council not elected by the public but rather their parliaments.

You should read The Lisbon Treaty and think of all of the possible scenarios that could arise as a result of it. Words can have many meanings and could also be implemented in so many different ways and interpreted differently by those who have the power to make those changes. Think before you blink or look before you leap. Very appropriate words.

ionix5891

I voted YES because of all the scaremongering and fud spread by Sinn Fein and US Military contractors who formed Liberats


their strategy was simple


If you tell a lie(s) often enough people will believe you...


funny how they cant come up with a plan of what to do now

irish_bob

ionix5891 wrote: »

I voted YES because of all the scaremongering and fud spread by Sinn Fein and US Military contractors who formed Liberats


their strategy was simple


If you tell a lie(s) often enough people will believe you...


funny how they cant come up with a plan of what to do now

if you done a scooby doo and pulled off declan ganleys head , it would reveal karl rove

ejmaztec

irish_bob wrote: »

if you done a scooby doo and pulled off declan ganleys head , it would reveal karl rove

Probably true, in a way. The last thing that the US wants is a strong and competitive Europe. It wouldn't be the first time that they've bank-rolled propaganda machines.

ionix5891

irish_bob wrote: »

if you done a scooby doo and pulled off declan ganleys head , it would reveal karl rove

is that the best you can come up with?