Libertas: what happens now?

The most thing that I worry and wonder about is what happens Libertas now?

• Will they turn into a political party?
• Will they dispand after people start realising that they have mislead the country?(I base this solely on the commissioner, I could base it on a lot more but I would have no proof to back it up)
• Will they be investigated for fraud etc? (based on the big question, who is giving them money?)

sink

Well in six months time when we loose our commissioner I hope people will despise Mr Ganley for lying to them. Putting to bed any notion of him forming a party.

LostinBlanch

Well, we'll find out where their funding came from before the next referendum.

Call Me Jimmy

I couldn't understand how anyone could talk about distrust for politicians and sticking it to the suits and then go and eat a whole plate of libertas pie, it just didn't make sense. I don't think anyone will argue that those libertas bullet points (no commissioner being one) swayed a hefty amount of people.

On the news he said he'd be opening the books though, I assume that's to do with normal checks that are done for all parties?

Hitman Actual

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Well, we'll find out where their funding came from before the next referendum.

I don't know, it will take a while to cook the books for €1.3million of €6500 donations!

bug

Maybe I was hearing things but on the six o clock news on rte I could have sworn Ganley's exiting sentance was something like, we will furnish our funding to SIPO by the end of next week

Did anyone else hear this? Or am I overworked?

marco_polo

bug wrote: »

Maybe I was hearing things but on the six o clock news on rte I could have sworn Ganley's exiting sentance was something like, we will furnish our funding to SIPO by the end of next week

Did anyone else hear this? Or am I overworked?

They have to have it in pretty soon AFAIK, I believe I heard him say next week too.

leninbenjamin

hopefully they'll be made to suffer in the future for all the lies they told, and bring an end to their existence...

Irish and Proud

cynical-ru wrote: »

The most thing that I worry and wonder about is what happens Libertas now?

• Will they turn into a political party?
• Will they dispand after people start realising that they have mislead the country?(I base this solely on the commissioner, I could base it on a lot more but I would have no proof to back it up)
• Will they be investigated for fraud etc? (based on the big question, who is giving them money?)

The commissioner thing is a grey area really. What Libertas say is that under Lisbon, we'll lose our permanent commissioner in 2014. Now, if Lisbon isn't ratified, we will lose our commissioner anyway, and sooner (2009). I don't dispute this at all. However, if the Lisbon treaty can override the date for reducing the commission, the treaty could possibly be renegotiated to override the Nice proposals for the commission altogether (now, I not saying they should be totally overridden). Also, what the Yes camp fails to mention is that under Lisbon, the new qualified majority rules for the councils will kick in which will considerably increase the power of the big 4 while the smaller nations will lose out heavily. In any given five year period which Ireland does not have a commissioner, we will be very vulnerable with the loss of many critical vetoes and the implementation of the said new qualified majority rules.

Regards!

Irish and Proud

lenny_leonard wrote: »

I don't know, it will take a while to cook the books for €1.3million of €6500 donations!

Oh, the Yes camp are at it again - attacking Ganley over funding. What about the funding that the Yes camp got, and what about the imbalance regarding media coverage. BTW, I was watching the BBC News this morning and all they seem to mention is that Europe is stalled and was there a way of getting Lisbon through regardless of the Irish No vote. A second referendum was mentioned too. Now, they did mention the conservatives being opposed to Lisbon all right, but they made absolutely no attempt to examine other avenues concerning Europe. It all seems like one way traffic!

Regards!

ircoha

Irish and Proud wrote: »

The commissioner thing is a grey area really. What Libertas say is that under Lisbon, we'll lose our permanent commissioner in 2014. Now, if Lisbon isn't ratified, we will lose our commissioner anyway, and sooner (2009). I don't dispute this at all. However, if the Lisbon treaty can override the date for reducing the commission, the treaty could possibly be renegotiated to override the Nice proposals for the commission altogether (now, I not saying they should be totally overridden). Also, what the Yes camp fails to mention is that under Lisbon, the new qualified majority rules for the councils will kick in which will considerably increase the power of the big 4 while the smaller nations will lose out heavily. In any given five year period which Ireland does not have a commissioner, we will be very vulnerable with the loss of many critical vetoes and the implementation of the said new qualified majority rules.

Regards!

Sean Whelan, on the PK show yday between 1000 and 1100 stated very clearly that there is a backdoor mech to change capping the number at 18 because the big countries and he specifically mentioned Germany were unhappy with not being at the table for 5 years at a time so I believe that the comm issue can be resolved pronto.

Despite he being employed by the state run tv and radio station I do believe him

ps: there is a pod cast on www.rte.ie/ am listening to it again and will post the time when I find it.

DublinWriter

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Oh, the Yes camp are at it again - attacking Ganley over funding.

Note that FF are keeping their mouths shut about Libertas' funding (pot-kettle-black anyone?) , but have left it up to their usual Labour corner-boys and fluffers to throw muck at Ganley to see what sticks.

Most notable was Pat Rabbite's oblique comments regarding Ganley's bona-fides as replayed at the start of RTE Radio "In Conversation with Eamon Dunphy" programme this morning.

Irish and Proud

DublinWriter wrote: »

Note that FF are keeping their mouths shut about Libertas' funding (pot-kettle-black anyone?) , but have left it up to their usual Labour corner-boys and fluffers to throw muck at Ganley to see what sticks.

Most notable was Pat Rabbite's oblique comments regarding Ganley's bona-fides as replayed at the start of RTE Radio "In Conversation with Eamon Dunphy" programme this morning.

It wouldn't surprise me!

Regards!

Irish and Proud

ircoha wrote: »

Sean Whelan, on the PK show yday between 1000 and 1100 stated very clearly that there is a backdoor mech to change capping the number at 18 because the big countries and he specifically mentioned Germany were unhappy with not being at the table for 5 years at a time so I believe that the comm issue can be resolved pronto.

Despite he being employed by the state run tv and radio station I do believe him

ps: there is a pod cast on www.rte.ie/ am listening to it again and will post the time when I find it.

Interesting! - must look into it mate!

Regards!

irish_bob

has anyone seen the murdoch press this morning in the uk

the SUN,s headline is PADDY POWER
the daily mail says the irish slayed the eu dragon

sinn fein have aligned themselves with the murdoch press , the mail and ukip
all euro sceptics and as right wing as they come , we live in truly bizzare times

IRLConor

I wouldn't be surprised if their funding is all above board. They're pretty well organised and ran a very professional campaign*. I have no reason to believe that the SIPO** will find anything wrong with them.

* Massive truth deficit aside.
** Is it just me, or do other people think Sicherheitspolizei when they hear SIPO?

Hitman Actual

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Also, what the Yes camp fails to mention is that under Lisbon, the new qualified majority rules for the councils will kick in which will considerably increase the power of the big 4 while the smaller nations will lose out heavily.

Completely incorrect. Read this post by IRLConor. There was a similar post on politics.ie that came to similar conclusions. Larger nations lost some influence with QMV, while the smallest nations gained. Ireland lost some influence to bigger and smaller nations, but gained influence over medium-sized nations.

You can argue about your own interpretation of the treaty all you want, but you have no real credibility if you want to dismiss the maths.

marco_polo

irish_bob wrote: »

has anyone seen the murdoch press this morning in the uk

the SUN,s headline is PADDY POWER
the daily mail says the irish slayed the eu dragon

sinn fein have aligned themselves with the murdoch press , the mail and ukip
all euro sceptics and as right wing as they come , we live in truly bizzare times

That'll be the first time the Daily mail has ever said anything positive about the Irish. Bizzare times indeed.

Hitman Actual

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Oh, the Yes camp are at it again - attacking Ganley over funding. What about the funding that the Yes camp got, and what about the imbalance regarding media coverage. BTW, I was watching the BBC News this morning and all they seem to mention is that Europe is stalled and was there a way of getting Lisbon through regardless of the Irish No vote. A second referendum was mentioned too. Now, they did mention the conservatives being opposed to Lisbon all right, but they made absolutely no attempt to examine other avenues concerning Europe. It all seems like one way traffic!

If their funding turns out to be clean, then I'll humbly apologise. TBH, I don't really care where his money came from. But what's your opinion on his claims over the commissioner, corporation tax, detaining 3-year kids, etc? I guess once it helped the No campaign, the lies don't really matter, do they?

Tar.Aldarion

ircoha wrote: »

Sean Whelan, on the PK show yday between 1000 and 1100 stated very clearly that there is a backdoor mech to change capping the number at 18 because the big countries and he specifically mentioned Germany were unhappy with not being at the table for 5 years at a time so I believe that the comm issue can be resolved pronto.

Despite he being employed by the state run tv and radio station I do believe him

ps: there is a pod cast on www.rte.ie/ am listening to it again and will post the time when I find it.

I am still waiting to hear what this loophole is. I find it highly unlikely that Ireland could get a better deal than the one that was presented.

ixtlan

Irish and Proud wrote: »

In any given five year period which Ireland does not have a commissioner, we will be very vulnerable with the loss of many critical vetoes and the implementation of the said new qualified majority rules.

Regards!

A very misleading comment. I'm guessing that you do understand that the commissioner cannot veto anything. They represent the EU and not their country of origin. Vetos are done by the heads of state in the EU council and the ministers in the council of ministers.

I think you do know this, but the phrasing of that sentence may mislead other readers. I've met several people who do believe the commissioner is the one who implents any veto. As for the voting weight changes, IRLConor explains that very well, and it's not much of a change for Ireland.

ix

ionix5891

some interesting reading about liberats


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0520/1211232308995.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/libertas-founder---refuses-to-reveal-list-of-donors-1315058.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311



how can a private limited company with many US military ties and questionable finances managed to scaremonger and hijack what this referendum was about?

now they got what they wanted, they wont tell us what they think we should do next

seanieb

Its a very common tactic that the US uses to effect change, to protect their interests, in a non violent, semi-legitimate way. They have done similar things in the Ukraine, and also in several south American countries.

And because Ireland was the linchpin in this deal, it only stands to reason that they might throw a few bucks at a group that supports their interests.

But is that legal?

ionix5891

seanieb wrote: »

Its a very common tactic that the US uses to effect change, to protect their interests, in a non violent, semi-legitimate way. They have done similar things in the Ukraine, and also in several south American countries.

And because Ireland was the linchpin in this deal, it only stands to reason that they might throw a few bucks at a group that supports their interests.

But is that legal?

is holding "enemy combatants" on ships and prisons like guantanamo legal?

in case you haven't noticed the country across the pond has seriously declined when it comes to morals and just about everything else (excluding the waist sizes)

suppose thats what you get when you get a bunch of nutjobs in power

here in ireland we have similar nutjobs, they are called Sein Fein and they would like nothing more than for Ireland to become a backwater of Europe once again


there should be an investigation into Liberats there is something seriously shady going on there

turgon

ionix5891 wrote: »

Liberats

Dont you mean Libertas? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I for one hope they completely destroyed. If them and Coir were trounced it would be a national day of celebration.

I dont know how Declan Ganley can claim "he is proud to be irish".

MG

I'd love to see Libertas become a proper party and take part in the general election. I think they might not survive that democratic vote.

Scofflaw

seanieb wrote: »

Its a very common tactic that the US uses to effect change, to protect their interests, in a non violent, semi-legitimate way. They have done similar things in the Ukraine, and also in several south American countries.

And because Ireland was the linchpin in this deal, it only stands to reason that they might throw a few bucks at a group that supports their interests.

But is that legal?

It would be easy enough to throw the necessary funding in via Irish citizens without breaching a single SIPO guideline or showing up on the books as such. Still, you have to bear in mind that SIPO guidelines only apply in respect of donations. You're entitled to spend your own money without accounting for it.

cordially,
Scofflaw