Yes voters, are they elitist???

Darragh29

I think yes voters are elitist, I think they believe they are entitled to a yes vote by virtue of their own place within society and that anyone who has voted no has done so because they are either:

(1) Unable to use logic and reason like those who vote yes are able to (and maybe shouldn't be allowed to vote on this basis).

(2) Mentally deficient in some way or another (and maybe shouldn't be allowed to vote on this basis).

(3) Politically deviant in some way or another (and maybe shouldn't be allowed to vote on this basis).

I'm honestly astounded at some of the opinions I've read on here from the yes camp, they come across as completely elitist and aloof, unable to see this treaty as anything other than an economic tool that our country could use to further improve the wealth of their already wealthy group. It's like listening to two BMW drivers discussing why they would only drive a BMW or a Merc, it makes me sick to be honest.

BMH

That post is a bit ironic don't you think?

Darragh29

BMH wrote: »

That post is a bit ironic don't you think?

Nope, where's the irony???

sink

I would not consider myself elitest one bit, I have only had problems with people who are either telling or falling for lies and misstruths. There have bee a good few no voters whim I respect because their position is based on the facts and they have a strong conviction. I do despair at the amount of people who put forward lies and also those who believed them without checking the facts. I do aknowlege however that there are elitest yes voters who look down on people with a different opinion and tbh I despise them even more.

Helix

Darragh29 wrote: »

Nope, where's the irony???

now THAT'S ironic

BMH

Darragh29 wrote: »

Nope, where's the irony???

Well you're generalising the Yes camp as a group of people who generalise the No camp.

johnny_ultimate

Some yes voters are elitist in the same way that some no voters are elitist and in the same way that some people are elitist. You can't generalise over 40% of voters with one word. Its sometimes hard to accept, but one has to acknowledge that people disagree (as was proven yesterday) and you can't just shoot all of them down with sweeping remarks like "yes / no voters are elitist / unitelligent / intelligent / uneducated"

leeroybrown

So what you're saying in essence is that ~750,000 Yes voters are elitist snobs who think that the other ~850,000 No voters are deficient in some way. Utter rubbish but that said it's in keeping with the campaign as a whole.

If any group approached the whole issue with an elitist attitude it was the main political parties with their "Sure it's too complex for the electorate to understand, just vote yes" campaign.

Scofflaw

Hmm. How can 750,000 people be elitist - except of course by making the word "elitist" meaningless?

rhetorically,
Scofflaw

turgon

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

You can't generalise over 40% of voters with one word.

Yes I can - watch this - over 40% of voters are .... YES-SIDERS :D:D:D:D:D (or maybe two words)

I would say that some Yes side are elitist and some No are elitist. The way in which the Yes side was sometimes portrayed seemed elitist but I don't think it actually was.

Anyway Darragh29, give them a break! Dont rub in your victory too much!!!

Scofflaw

turgon wrote: »

Yes I can - watch this - over 40% of voters are .... YES-SIDERS :D:D:D:D:D (or maybe two words)

I would say that some Yes side are elitist and some No are elitist. The way in which the Yes side was sometimes portrayed seemed elitist but I don't think it actually was.

Anyway Darragh29, give them a break! Dont rub in your victory too much!!!

Ah, no, people should have their celebration. I'm sure our cockerels would be crowing too if the result had gone the other way.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Ri na hEireann

Scofflaw wrote: »

Ah, no, people should have their celebration. I'm sure our cockerels would be crowing too if the result had gone the other way.

cordially,
Scofflaw

There's the irony in this thread....Leave them celebrate their defeat

Darragh29

To be honest, rather than basking in celebration, I really wanted to vote yes to this treaty, the whole thing made sense to me, except for one thing: The way in which it was being pushed on us and the fact that apparently we could not vote no.

genericgoon

Darragh29 wrote: »

To be honest, rather than basking in celebration, I really wanted to vote yes to this treaty, the whole thing made sense to me, except for one thing: The way in which it was being pushed on us and the fact that apparently we could not vote no.

So you voted no to see if it was actually physcially possible. As a Science student(admitedly only a first year undergrad) I commend your experimentation.

is_that_so

I think the Yes campaign made an unholy shambles of it and gave that "you'd better not vote No or else" line. To me that is classic Biffo and similar to his tack towards the end of the GE campaign and if there was Yes elitism IMO this is where it was coming from. I wonder if he should have been out there at all. They could have taken a leaf out of the No campaign, instead of running with election posters,
The No campaign offered those inclined to go against the government,protest or just vote no, something to hang their vote on.
Unless you were taken by the limp "Be at the heart of Europe" or had wrestled your way through the various materials including the treaty there was nothing else.

leninbenjamin

I've yet to meet anyone personally who voted no that could give me a coherent and logical reason (relevant to the actual text of the treaty) as to why they voted no. If it makes me elitist to call them out on that so be it.

and i'm not saying that there aren't people out there who voted no and have a reasoned and logical argument, (i'm just saying i've yet to meet one, unless you count perhaps a handful of individuals on boards).

Neamhshuntasach

I think it was a Governmental conspiracy in which they half arsed their Yes campaign knowing they would lose to the No camp because they were too afraid to say No themselves in the beginning. We are all merely pawns and scapegoats.

FionnMatthew

What's wrong with elitism based on intelligence, rationality and intellect? What's wrong with extolling those things as virtues, to be emulated? What's wrong with denigrating ignorance, when it is exercised in the process of democracy?

I didn't vote YES. I didn't vote. But from where I sit, the people who were most reliably informed on this issue sat largely on the YES side. There were a lot of fools on that side too, however.

In all forms, that sort of ignorance is repugnant, especially when, through lack of care and propriety, it is allowed to infect the ballot.

Neamhshuntasach

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I've yet to meet anyone personally who voted no that could give me a coherent and logical reason (relevant to the actual text of the treaty) as to why they voted no. If it makes me elitist to call them out on that so be it.

and i'm not saying that there aren't people out there who voted no and have a reasoned and logical argument, (i'm just saying i've yet to meet one, unless you count perhaps a handful of individuals on boards).

And i have yet to meet one No voter who gave me a ridiculous reason as to why they were voting No such as abortion and hard drugs being made legal, conscription, etc. It's amazing the Yes voters seemed to be the only ones with that privilege.

Any no voter i talked to were voting No because they were afraid the Government may not use our veto in order to not go against the grain of other member states, disagreed with further political integration in Europe, disagreed with contributing funds towards an EU army/peace force of some kind or because of mistrust of European representatives based on comments made. The biggest one that they just didn't agree with Europe other than trade. All legitimate reasons in my book.

genericgoon

*monocle slips into champagne

What?How dare you insinute that by voting yes, I am an elitist bourgeoise pig.

Nah, on both sides I think there were a lot of people who didn't understand the Treaty or why they were voting one way or the other. However, on this particular forum I think in general the Yes side has been better informed and have argued much better.

irish_bob

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I've yet to meet anyone personally who voted no that could give me a coherent and logical reason (relevant to the actual text of the treaty) as to why they voted no. If it makes me elitist to call them out on that so be it.

and i'm not saying that there aren't people out there who voted no and have a reasoned and logical argument, (i'm just saying i've yet to meet one, unless you count perhaps a handful of individuals on boards).

agreed
also, if the reason most people voted no was down to them seeing the yes side as being elitist , i think along with the result , shows , this country has a collective chip on its shoulder the size of new grange

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

so the no voters are akin to bush voters in america?

irish_bob

Mordances with the proletariat wrote: »

so the no voters are akin to bush voters in america?

absolutly not , most bush voters are tru believers , american republicans tend to be idealogically right wing people

the irish are not an idealogical people for the most part