WE or Tanaka luger going full auto

Stercus Accidit

I had a few hilarious incidents lately where my luger would go full auto, very amusing to all around to see the toggle fly and hear the lovely rof but it upset me

So finally got round to fixing it, and discovered a good thing, the WE luger has a metal firing pin, so no tanaka style breaks there.

Basically at the left side of your gun are two arms that pivot to set off the trigger unit.

Now to reset after each shot these arms have to reset before the full cycle is complete, but as they are exposed, they get dirty, gum up, and cause the great full auto mess.

Turn take down handle, take of side plate, slide off upper, depress rear arm and front arm pops out, clean area thoroughly.

Fixed

I got no results online, and took the whole thing apart before realising this.

There ye go google, a result for we tanaka luger going full auto.

zero19

Full auto luger, that'd i'd like to see lol

Stercus Accidit

zero19 wrote: »

Full auto luger, that'd i'd like to see lol

I can make a 1911 full auto by removing one part

And adding a small one I made myself, I know those mechs. inside out from your hi-capa, hows it going actually?

I believe I could make a part to do the same with the luger, controlled full auto rather than the mad hijinks I was having with no control.

zero19

Yeah it's grand not a single problem after several hundred bb's gone through it

Stercus Accidit

zero19 wrote: »

Yeah it's grand not a single problem after several hundred bb's gone through it

Testament to my fine craftsmanship, not WE's bollicking around

Grip safety still work?

SpitfireIV

Thats funny because my Luger decided it was gonna go full auto too last week, damn thing gave me a fright! :eek:

I find it happens when I fill the mag with as much gas as possible, if I only half, or three quarter fill it it doesnt go auto.

I'll have a look at the trigger bars and give em a clean.

Stercus Accidit

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Thats funny because my Luger decided it was gonna go full auto too last week, damn thing gave me a fright! :eek:

I find it happens when I fill the mag with as much gas as possible, if I only half, or three quarter fill it it doesnt go auto.

I'll have a look at the trigger bars and give em a clean.

Its definitely the front trigger arm sticking before finishing a full cycle, clean it and you'll be sorted.

zero19

Motosam wrote: »

Testament to my fine craftsmanship, not WE's bollicking around

Grip safety still work?

Haha yeah it's one of few fully working versions i'm sure! Grip safety works fine too, wait now, i'll use it tomorrow and it'd explode or something lol :rolleyes:

Stercus Accidit

zero19 wrote: »

Haha yeah it's one of few fully working versions i'm sure! Grip safety works fine too, wait now, i'll use it tomorrow and it'd explode or something lol :rolleyes:

Yeah remember they never changed the mag design which can pop, just don't weaken the main screw at the base...

Stercus Accidit

Full auto again, completely uncontrolled.

Ok so cleaned every part completely, now its at it again.

It seems to be that the sear, the part which holds the hammer back, is not engaging quick enough when the gun is fired.
If you manually cock the gun slowly it catches and is cocked, do it quickly and it will not.

Even when the toggle is locked back, then released, it can set itself off and do a burst of full auto fire.

I'm going to look at the sear again, and check for wear, there was no major wear when I last checked.

WE have a nasty habit of using shit metal in such parts, that wears out over time, giving these sorts or problems.

It looks and scratches like the old hicapa sears, so is weak and easily worn down.

If and when I find a way to fix this I'll post it here.

Stercus Accidit

What it may be is the sear is wearing with the hammer.



In case 1, the sear has caught with the hammer, the toggle is forward, and the gun can be fired normally.

In case 2, the toggle is pulled back, the sear is further back than it is when at rest, when the toggle moves forward again, the sear will move forward, fall into the notch, and catch with the hammer.

In case 3, our case, there is wear on both parts, when the toggle moves forward quickly as when the gun is fired, the sear and notch move quickly together, the wear causes a slope on both parts, and the sear will not catch, merely be deflected away, now the hammer moves freely forward and we get uncontrollable full auto.

I think this is what is happening now, I'm going to have a look at sharpening the notch and sear, and removing alot of the slope to the left, allowing more time for the sear to drop and catch the notch.

If it works, great, problem solved.

What is annoying is WE may have done it again with weak sears and notches.

BrusBilis

I have the same problem.

My english isn't good so i don't understand very well your explanation about fixing the problem.

Could you put some photos, please ?

Regards from another lugermaniac being frustated

Stercus Accidit

I will try to do so this weekend.

SpitfireIV

Got out the Luger and the videocam to take a vid of the 'full auto luger', but do you think it'd go full auto?! Oh no, not a chance!! :rolleyes: Must have put about 60 rounds through it and nothing, firing fine!

Motosam, did you experience the same problem as in my post below? I'd imagine if you havent then its pretty innevitable, maybe worth taking the piston apart to have a look. I temporarily solved the problem by just adding a longer screw.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55587642&postcount=30

Stercus Accidit

I'll take a look.

And re: full auto, having experience of the hi-capas sears wearing, I think the luger sear is like cancer, it will get worse.
This is now logically, the only part that could be causing this auto firing, and if I am correct, it gets worse the more wear it experiences.

I believe I have a permanent fix in mind, I have visualised how it would work (god I sound tacky) and will try it soon.

It could solve full auto permanently, by reducing the material which raises the sear at full toggle back, allowing it a hell of alot more time to drop.

I'm working on a different gun at the mo, but am very confident about fixing this luger issue soon.

Stercus Accidit

Well I don't have a camera so here's a detailed worded instruction.

Take off top assembly, take off grips.

Inside frame beside hammer remove small screw holding on safety lever, remove lever and safety indicator.

Push out pin in frame holding in trigger unit, squeeze trigger unit out past arm that holds toggle back on last shot, this arm will get in the way alot by the way.

Now trigger unit is out.

Remove three large flathead screws on right side of unit, take off small spring and chrome arm it holds, push out pin now that hold hammer.

You should see a notch in the hammer, bottom left.

see ms paint diagram



Ok, on the left is the damaged hammer, elevation and side view.

The red line is where you file very lightly, to get a sharp edge, you can see on the right what it should look like afterwards.

The red and yellow line below is where you file heavily, take away 1-2mm of metal, this allows the sear longer to fall into the notch when the gun is fired, in fact I'm pretty sure you can remove alot of this material, it serves no purpose.

Now the top edge is sharp it wont deflect the sear, the bottom edge being removed allows more time for the sear to catch with the hammer.


To get at the sear(part that catches with hammer) you turn a grub screw on top of the trigger assembly, now push out the pin holding it, carefull the sear is spring loaded, and you can take off the sear.

On the right in the yellow circle is the sear, the yellow line is where you rough it up, the hammer was knocking the sear out of the way to go full auto, making the yellow part angled and slightly rough reduces this.

Put a slight inward angle on this part, to grab the hammer better, and some length wise gouges, to add friction if needs be.

My luger is now semi auto again.

Stercus Accidit

Full auto again.

The hammer and sear have under use, become sloped again.

The only way to fix this is to increase the slope on the sear, but I just did this, too well, and now the trigger arms are unable to set off the pistol.
It seems to be an unhappy medium between being usable, or uncontrollable.

I don't have the time to sort this out at the moment, but I'll see if I can.

It would seem, that even after being fixed, the metal is too soft and returns to its previous worn shape.
It may be worth it to buy a tanaka hammer and sear, if these parts are available, as this wei tech metal seems far too soft for the purpose.

Just be careful not to slope the sear too much, as you wont be able to fire the gun.

The main thing is, if you do the repair I did, don't do it too well, the stupid gun won't fire, and I will likely have to file off more material.

pdp

Hi,
I bought 1 month ago a WE P08, and now it shots full auto.
Found your interesting post: before following your instructions, I wish to know if these solved finally the problem on your P08 (last post about it is 6 month old). Many thanks from a worried P08 owner...

Stercus Accidit

Theres no permanent fix unfortunately, the metal used is too weak.

If you can get tanaka parts, they will work.

Stercus Accidit

Well this has been a long time coming but I got a replacement hammer and sear for my luger, tanaka brand, and they have solved the problem.

WGC were able to get the parts, in stock last time I checked.

Basically those parts solved the issue, so theres the answer.


If your luger goes full auto or gets inconsistent firing or cocking, get the tanaka hammer and sear, the parts numbers are the same as in the WE manual.

rangerjoel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWKJE_aw-WM

andy_g

necro thread locked