Swimming Beginner - Breathing question

papamike

Hi there,
I didn't want to hijack the other "learning to swim" post but I am also learning to swim at the minute. I started lessons in Feb and have been very happy with progress so far. I have gone from being barely able for a width and fearful of the deep end to last night doing 20 lengths of a 25m pool. So beginners stick with it and it will get better.

However, my problem is that I cannot manage those 20 lengths in a row and have to stop after each length as I am gasping for air 5m from the wall. At the end of the lessons the instructor had said that my technique was ok (it does need improvement as I do 30 strokes per length currently and I'm reading Total Immersion) and I breath bilaterally after every third stroke. I would consider myself reasonably fit in that I can run a 6:00 mile, 12:30 3k, 22:00 5k and 48:00 10k so i don't think its aerobic fitness that is the main problem but am open to correction on that. Perhaps its swimming fitness that I am lacking and the 30 strokes per length isn't helping.

However my main question is how do you know how much air to breath in? I think that perhaps I breath in too much and than dont exhale it all and am then struggling to get enough air in. I have varied the amount of air that I inhale and try to exhale it all but I don't seem to be making any progress. While running, breathing is a simple in-out tempo while swimming, for me anyway it seems to be a quick gasp in and a drawn out exhale!! Am I totally off the mark here? Or is something that I just have to get used to. Watching people cruise up and down the fast lane, even those with high stroke counts, have no problems with breathing so what am I doing wrong. I''ve asked people and they all say to stick with it and it will "click" one day!!!! If I had a cent.........;)


Sorry for the long post but any advice much appreciated.

muggyog

If you are doing 20 lengths in a session your fitness is not the issue. I think you need to slow down and reduce your stroke rate. Try doing two consecutive exaggeratedly slow lengths. Oxygen debt after a length suggests too much effort on your part.

ramanujan

You seem like a fit enough person, doubt i could do a 6 min mile! Being a swimmer, (an ex one really) and not a coach I'm sure someone else on here will explain better. But you should be exhaling while doing your 3 strokes, try controlling your exhale to a constant rate. then on the third stroke as soon as your mouth reachs the surface of the water you want to be sucking air in!! As much as possible, right until you have to put your head back down. Its your goal to get as much oxygen in without interupting your stroke. so to answer your question you want to breath in as much as possible, and make sure your finished breathing out by the time your head immerges. Careful not to swallow too much water!

That said, their was a lot of bery successful swimmers who turned their head completely out of the water, and looked almost upwards on the breaths. So they would have had alot more time to breath than i gave myself, so a similar tactic might be more suited to you. whereas i just turned my head enough to get my mouth out of the uisce.

best of luck, controlling your breathing on the exhales is also great for asthma and lung capacity..

Also was thinking, your stroke mightnt be that efficient yet, so dont get disheartened. as in your probably using up tons of oxygen in your strokes instead of gliding... Itll get easier as your stroke gets better,

AngryHippie

Break the stroke down, work on individual components, and then put it together again, It sounds to me like you are lacking some power in your arm stroke, or you're stroke rate is too fast.

1. Legs are kicking fast without getting tired, always keeping the toes up to the surface?
   
2. Are you using a sweep in your arm pull, or do you pull straight ?
   
3. If you are using a sweep (s-shaped hand path) then stroke length is next, The front crawl arm stroke is from the farthest you can reach in front of you without moving your hips, to the farthest you can push back, without moving your head,
   
4. Instead of pulling really hard in the early part of the stroke, accelerate your hand smoothly, from a slow gentle pull at the start, using your shoulder as your arm passes by shoulder height and pulling hard speeding up right to the exit of your hand from the water at your hip.
   
5. LME, You might be familiar with this one, Using a few floats or a noodle or woggle or whatever you call it in your pool, lie out completely flat face up , start this at a wall, when you are horizontal and stable-ish, Start using your hands in a Queens wave motion as a paddle under the water to propel yourself, experiment with the angles of your hands, until you find the angles that allow you to generate some movement in both directions of the (hand) wave, Once you have gotten this, try one full length, head first on your back, To move in the other direction, just point your fingers at the floor of the pool, and start moving your hands, again, spend a little time getting a feel for what works, Do a couple of lengths of each every time you are in to swim, that should help get some more power into those arms.
   
6. The last thing is on your breathing, trickle breathing as it is called, allows you to slowly blow out through your nose, while your face is submerged, It means that when you turn to breath, you have only enough air left to clear your mouth with a quick blow, then breath in straight away, Its tricky, and is easier to get used to while doing the catch-up drill.
   Explosive breathing on the other hand, means you exhale as your mouth turns clear and you have to exhale and inhale in between arm strokes, It is not anymore difficult or effective than trickle, but most people find one to be more comfortable for them than the other.

Give it plenty of good practice, It'll come together

papamike

Thanks guys for all the advice. Some small tips received here should really help.

Muggyog, I'm going to the pool again tonight so I will try to really slow it down on the lengths and hopefully that will help with the oxygen debt.

Ramanujan, I always thought swallowing water was great for the rehydration;). I will work on the controlled exhale and ensure all air is gone before turning the head. Will try the trickle breathing as mentioned by AngryHippie. Stroke efficiency is still a problem but will work on some of the things AngryHippie has poined out.

AngryHippie, I know I have some stroke efficiency issues but to answer some of your questions
1. Legs are kicking reasonably fast, about 2 kicks per stroke I think but to be honest I dont count leg kicks, and toes are pointed up
2. I try to pull straight. I've read about the s-sweep and some of the stuff I've read wasn't convinced by it (Total Immersion). I try to have my arm at 90 degrees on the pull as shown on a thread here somewhere.
3&4. I'm not using the sweep currently but I tend to accelerate my arm at the start of the pull and as a result its not as quick towards the end and I must not be getting the full effect. So my arm acceleration is at the wrong end of my stroke. That's great to know.
5. I think I know what you are on about. By a Queens wave motion, do you mean rotating hands gently from the wrist forwards and back and working what angle of hand position works best to generate movement??
6. I never breath out through my nose, always through my mouthI think I'm more of an explosive breather as you describe but I think I will try the trickle breathing to see if that is more comfortable.

AngryHippie

The theory behind the sweep is solid, think about it in terms of your hand being a paddle, once you pull in a straight line, the water in front of your hand is moving, so to get any extra propulsion off it, you have to pull faster, If the speed difference between the undisturbed water and the water you pull gets too high, you get eddy currents and cavitation, (vortex and bubbles) These acutally reduce the amount of propulsion you can generate by creating drag. To avoid this, try an s-shaped hand path, this means that you are moving a larger volume of water with your pull, But you are not pulling the increased area hard enough to cause bubbles or vortices, making your stroke more efficient. It takes a while to get the hang of it, But once you do, the only bubbles will be a small trail off the tips of your fingers, and You'll be doing lengths of the pool in 15-20 strokes, which is a massive increase in efficiency. I've seen swimmers cover 25m in 8 or 9 strokes, So that sweep is an essential part of the stroke, definitely worth spending time on.

On the LME exercise, that is exactly what I was describing, It is called sculling and it is a very beneficial bit of practice, The same principles behind sculling as the sweep, It'll take a while to get the hang of it though.

ramanujan

AngryHippie wrote: »

1. If you are using a sweep (s-shaped hand path) then stroke length is next, The front crawl arm stroke is from the farthest you can reach in front of you without moving your hips, to the farthest you can push back, without moving your head,
   

Hmm, I might pick up a tip or two myself here! I will have to see what I actually do in the water tommorrow, but im fairly sure I tilt my hips when reaching forward at the start of my stroke. I find this lengthens my stroke.
Will double check to be sure, and never found this to be an issue with coaches, then again freestyle wasnt my num 1, so that could be a factor!

papamike

A quick update on the pool session last night. Really tried to slow things down for 2 consecutive lengths and that helped with the oxygen debt. I was struggling towards the end of length 2 a little and wasn't able to start a third but will work on that.

Most impressive though was trying a few off the tips received here and I managed to reduce my stroke count to 27 per length consistently for the last 6 lengths I did last night. Main thing I tried to implement was the s-sweep and a better arm acceleration through the stroke and while far from perfect, when I nailed it on the odd stroke I definitely felt a longer glide:D:D. Now to imprint that feeling to muscle memory.

Next is to try to perfect this s-sweep, as for me it appears much easier with my right hand/arm and not so with my left. Also on the breathing stroke I couldn't really co-ordinate the sweep on the pulling arm with the head turn/body roll. Will have to just break it down and practice it. Any particluar drills that could help with this?

Thanks for all the advice guys and I will keep you posted as to progress in a month or so. You never know my goal of a triathlon this summer may yet happen:)

AngryHippie

The two main drills that will help with this are the catch-up drill and the high elbow drill

Catch up drill
Swim your front crawl as normal, except that you keep one arm fully outstretched in the glide position all the time, alternating arms each stroke, As your recovering arm stretches fully forward you pull with the arm that was outstretched for the last stroke, It can be done with a float if you are finding the balance a little difficult, This helps with the timing of the breath as well as with overall balance

High-Elbow drill
Swimming front crawl as normal, except that when you are recovering your arm, drag your thumb up your side from your hip to your armpit, lifting your elbow high out of the water and sliding your hand into the water palm facing out just in front of your temple.

These two drills can be performed together once you've gotten the hang of them, Its best to swim at a slow pace when doing them. One of the benefits of these drills is that it helps to feel the balancing power of your leg kick, as well as helping to co-ordinate the shoulder roll and breathing. It will probably take a session or two to get the hang of them, so use them in your warm-up and swim down for a few sessions, instead of trying to do a full session using them.

but im fairly sure I tilt my hips when reaching forward at the start of my stroke. I find this lengthens my stroke.

A small amount of hip roll is okay, but if its causing your leg kick to wobble, or results in a head movement then its to much, pull it back a little if that is the case.

bananamansgay

im just learning to swim 'properly' and iv had hugeproblems with my breathing.

but over the last two days i changed something and it has really really helped.

basically befoe hand i was taking a breath and as soon as i put my face back in the water i was exhaling hard straight away, meaning when i went back for air i had emptied my lungs totally before my lips resurfaced. this left me gagging for air after 200 meters.

i have changed this to exhaling in a very controled and slow way. when resurfacing i quickly exhale the air i was holding in my lungs in a quick burst and then inhale quickly again before putting my face back in the water.

it took a little while to get the hang of but it has helped me so much its incredible. iv even cancelled the swimming lessons i booked! im not sure if this is even the right way to do it but i feel so much more comfortable now...

hope this helps

papamike

Cheers Bananamansgay, I've been trying to work on the slow exhale to regulate the breathing and it is taking a bit of getting used to but I do feel a bit more comfortable.

No swimming this week yet due to damn throat infection:(

Andrewf20

Youtube has some good vids on technique.

Peachy123

bananamansgay wrote: »

im just learning to swim 'properly' and iv had hugeproblems with my breathing.

but over the last two days i changed something and it has really really helped.

basically befoe hand i was taking a breath and as soon as i put my face back in the water i was exhaling hard straight away, meaning when i went back for air i had emptied my lungs totally before my lips resurfaced. this left me gagging for air after 200 meters.

i have changed this to exhaling in a very controled and slow way. when resurfacing i quickly exhale the air i was holding in my lungs in a quick burst and then inhale quickly again before putting my face back in the water.

it took a little while to get the hang of but it has helped me so much its incredible. iv even cancelled the swimming lessons i booked! im not sure if this is even the right way to do it but i feel so much more comfortable now...

hope this helps

+1
I was having huge problems getting further than 1 lengh without having to stop to catch my breath... I did the same with my breathing - controlled it over the 3 strokes I take - very slow and even... I also made a huge effort to slow down my stroke - within about 2 weeks of starting this I was swimming 500m without stopping.

Good Luck!