So... Downloading...

User45701

Right - i was talking to a friend and he belives that people download out of lazyness and cost.

He maintains that if itunes or fox or whoever deciced to slash price so say 50% on all TV shows (DVD box sets) films ect. He thinks the vast majority of downloaders will keep downloading.

There are 2 reasons i do it.

1. Cost, it would cost me a little over 15k to get what i want on DVD/HD DVD and thats not even that many shows. last year i priced how much it would cost to legalise my mates tv show collection and it came to around 5k which seems ok but its still profit mongering. (actually considering what allot of people download thats very low because some TV series cost upwards of 6 or 7 hundred)

If DVD box sets or licence tv show downloads where priced correctly i would buy instead of downloading.

2. Time, and this is the main reason i download, most things i download ill get the DVD or try to some big seasons that would cost 700 or so i get a little bothered but you have to support your contries retail stores.

Anyway by time i mean the time it comes out, its gotten better in recent years but some shows still involve a wait of a year or more for irish tv/dvd and that would be my main reason for downloading.

So the questions,

If all TV shows where released worldwide same time (sub titles as well) and the fee to download a episode was good enough or the fee to buy the DVD was resonable would you still download?

Here is a great exmple of price btw

Zavvi in Dundrum

Shameless Seasons 1-5 € 70.00

Prison break Seasons 1-3 € 170.00

I would simply not buy prison break but i did buy shameless because i downloaded it and for 5 seasons they where asking a fair price.

Mossy Monk

There are some things I will buy regardless of cost but others I wont such as tv shows that split the season in two. A money spinning scam if ever there was one.

User45701

ye the worst is fmaily guy there have been 6 seasons and they split seasons 4, 5 & 6 into two seasons each so america will be going onto season 7 while ireland/uk will be going onto season 9

Sherifu

Because it's what the cool kids do.

dulpit

I reckon the reason most people download is down to the fact that if you don't watch the latest episode from the states plonkers on the radio *cough*ray foley*cough* will bloody well give away half the story...

It's gotten better recently with some shows on here only days after american broadcast, so that helps...

KerranJast

dulpit wrote: »

I reckon the reason most people download is down to the fact that if you don't watch the latest episode from the states plonkers on the radio *cough*ray foley*cough* will bloody well give away half the story...

It's gotten better recently with some shows on here only days after american broadcast, so that helps...

Yes thats my main reason. I could not spend 6 months waiting for my favourite show to air and not remain spoiler free. Also not having to sit through ads is good. I already pay a TV license for your programming content RTE. I don't pay to watch your inane advertising too.

MikeHoncho

User45701 wrote: »

Zavvi in Dundrum

Shameless Seasons 1-5 € 70.00

Prison break Seasons 1-3 € 170.00

I would simply not buy prison break but i did buy shameless because i downloaded it and for 5 seasons they where asking a fair price.

Yeah but do you not think that Prison Break probably costs about 10 times as much to produce in the first place as Shameless. Production values on TV shows from the U.S are at near Hollywood quality these days.

Neamhshuntasach

I pay for my TV license and i also pay Sky for their digital service. But i don't be at home during the time most of the tv shows i like are shown on tv due to other commitments. So i will download what i miss on tv and watch on my computer. I can't see the problem in that. FOX, CBS, ABC, etc were never going to get money out of me anyways as i already pay to watch them shows on tv out of which i'm sure they take a chunk out of from Sky for rights to air the show in the first place. Me hole will i go out and pay more money to buy a box set that is priced ridiculously.

Sqaull20

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

I pay for my TV license and i also pay Sky for their digital service. But i don't be at home during the time most of the tv shows i like are shown on tv due to other commitments. So i will download what i miss on tv and watch on my computer. I can't see the problem in that. FOX, CBS, ABC, etc were never going to get money out of me anyways as i already pay to watch them shows on tv out of which i'm sure they take a chunk out of from Sky for rights to air the show in the first place. Me hole will i go out and pay more money to buy a box set that is priced ridiculously.

That's what I do as well, I work nights every second week so dont get to see alot of the movies and tv shows on sky when they are on, if sky didnt charge a fortune for that rip off 80gb hd Sky + recorder, I wouldnt use rapidshare much..

Sky should really get their act together and put everything they have shown for the last month on a high speed server, so I can download it..

Its pathetic

corblimey

dulpit wrote: »

I reckon the reason most people download is down to the fact that if you don't watch the latest episode from the states plonkers on the radio *cough*ray foley*cough* will bloody well give away half the story...

It's gotten better recently with some shows on here only days after american broadcast, so that helps...

I'll dl the latest episodes as soon as they air for convenience and to avoid commercial breaks, etc, but if I really like the show a la the office, 30 rock, etc, I will splash out on the boxset when it comes out. I wouldn't even know about 30 rock without dl'ing (I don't believe it's shown over in these here parts yet) so in actuality, they've made more money from me downloading.

aidan_walsh

corblimey wrote: »

I'll dl the latest episodes as soon as they air for convenience and to avoid commercial breaks, etc, but if I really like the show a la the office, 30 rock, etc, I will splash out on the boxset when it comes out. I wouldn't even know about 30 rock without dl'ing (I don't believe it's shown over in these here parts yet) so in actuality, they've made more money from me downloading.

TV3 had the first series.

I buy a lot of shows on DVD and will often buy a show that I downloaded. Case in point being Burn Notice. I started watching it when it was first broadcast in America last summer and loved it. I preordered the DVD months ago and will have it in time to rewatch all of season one just before season two starts in America.

So far season one has yet to be shown over here on any channel. Another show which I really enjoyed watching last summer was Traveller which was shown here 10 months later at 3 in the morning.

I've found myself blind buying the first seasons of shows which I think I might enjoy. Picked up Numb3rs season one for 25 euro on play a few weeks back and loved it. Watched all of it over two nights and bought season two straight away which I'm now devouring.

Dodge

corblimey wrote: »

I'll dl the latest episodes as soon as they air for convenience and to avoid commercial breaks, etc, but if I really like the show a la the office, 30 rock, etc, I will splash out on the boxset when it comes out. I wouldn't even know about 30 rock without dl'ing (I don't believe it's shown over in these here parts yet) so in actuality, they've made more money from me downloading.

Same here. TV3 had 30 rock

Pigman II

I have several hundred movies on DVD but in general I wouldn't bother buying any of the TV shows I watch because they have no rewatch value for me. Cost really has no bearing on the decision.

Dont be at yourself

I'm a little puzzled why TV Networks don't push IPTV/Online broadcasts more. If they included unskippable advertisements in the broadcasts, surely it could be just as, if not more, lucrative than their TV broadcasts?

Torrents like Lost are downloaded thousands of times a day - despite their varying quality and their illegality. A legal, good-quality, well-marketed stream supported by advertising revenue would be a winner for everyone.

Dodge

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Torrents like Lost are downloaded thousands of times a day - despite their varying quality and their illegality. A legal, good-quality, well-marketed stream supported by advertising revenue would be a winner for everyone.

Its an international rights thing. In the US you can watch Lost from the ABC wesite (and all the other US networks are the same). But ABC don't own the show, and the producers want the money from RTE, Sky and a channel in every other market in the world

Dont be at yourself

Why not cut out the middle man though? They're receiving money from Sky and RTE, who are paying for it through advertisements and subscriptions... why don't the producers directly broadcast it worldwide via the internet, and go after that money themselves? It requires very little in the way of infastructure compared to traditional broadcasting, and yet could yield significant returns.

I understand that neither the appetite or broadband are probably in place for such a move at the moment, but it is surely how things will pan out over the next 10-20 years.

Dodge

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

but it is surely how things will pan out over the next 10-20 years.

I don't think it will. They need the upfront money from the US networks to get the programme made. Even the syndicated TV shows (shows without a US network) need upfromt sales to get produced.

I'm not saying there won't be internet only channels producing "TV" shows but I'd guess that the majority of programmes will still be first broadcast on TV, and in multiple countries too.

Ponster

Other -

I live in France and most of the shows mentioned here will never make it to French TV and if they do they'll be dubbed.

I buy DVD box sets of the shows I've been most impressed with and I want to share with others (BSG, Deadwood, etc)

But now that I can use the iplayer for the UK and access NBC and ABC via proxy I don't bother downloading what I can stream.

Unfortunately RTE have begun limiting their offerings to Ireland IP addresses only while in the past almost everything was free to view. I'll be back to downloading Podge and Rodge from torrents again

jor el

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Why not cut out the middle man though? They're receiving money from Sky and RTE, who are paying for it through advertisements and subscriptions... why don't the producers directly broadcast it worldwide via the internet, and go after that money themselves? It requires very little in the way of infastructure compared to traditional broadcasting, and yet could yield significant returns.

I've wondered that myself. As it stands, millions (probably) are downloading episodes each week already, even a 1 euro charge each would net millions, a week, for doing pretty much nothing.

I had a look at the numbers, and according to this, Sky paid £20M Sterling for series 3 and 4 of Lost. With about 40 episodes in total there, that makes £500k per episode. Ratings are running at about 1.1M per episode, roughly. This gives a cost, per episode, per viewer, of about 45p. So, even charging 50p per episode would net the producers more than what they got from Sky. And this doesn't include embedded advertising which could net even more.

I think, very soon, this will be a reality. At which point any TV broadcaster that don't offer an Internet service, will be fairly fcuked.

Anyway, I download not because of laziness or cost, but because I can. If it were possible to pay a reasonable amount for TV over the Internet, then I would. It's not though, and I'm not paying Sky or Chorus a fee for something I already pay my TV licence for, and for shows that are funded by advertising in them anyway.

Skinfull

I DL because I can. I dont have a TV and I'm not paying NTL / SKY for 90% of shows that I wont watch.
I do buy alot of DVD's though and mainly shows I've seen like BSG, Bones etc. So its not saving me money per say. Just time, and my brain doesnt have to engage in crappy TV advertising!

Our man in Havana

What annoys me is the delays in transmission between the US and here. Some shows are almost a year behind. I can't be arsed waiting for them to air here.

dulpit

Also, just thinking about what people have said, even if the US networks start offering downloads for a small fee, people will still go with the free torrent (or whatever) option, due to the absolute ease of it...

I doubt it can be made much simpler than it already is...

ironictoaster

Reason why I download is because:

A - Half of the shows I watch don't come to Irish shores for ages

and

B - Convenience, the joys of watching a show any time you wish is great.

AdMMM

I find myself downloading out of convenience moreso than anything else.

I do most of my TV watching late at night and downloading allows me to do this conveniently as it means I don't have to set Sky+ to record and I get to watch multiple episodes at once.

corblimey

dulpit wrote: »

Also, just thinking about what people have said, even if the US networks start offering downloads for a small fee, people will still go with the free torrent (or whatever) option, due to the absolute ease of it...

I doubt it can be made much simpler than it already is...

My only issue with the current er "method" is speed. You're relying on others. If the networks charged a quid per show but guaranteed http speeds, I'd be all over it. It's fine for the US where everybody has a high speed cable modem, not so over here where most of us have huge contention rates and an antiquated system that falls over whenever the wind blows a bit strong. Give me the latest shows at http speeds and I'll pay the going rate.

Dodge

The latest shows are available at http speeds...

Akrasia

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Yeah but do you not think that Prison Break probably costs about 10 times as much to produce in the first place as Shameless. Production values on TV shows from the U.S are at near Hollywood quality these days.

they probably also have about 10 times the audience/distribution. The only chance shameless has to be shown in the U.S. is if they re-make it with U.S. actors..... actually, after googling it, it appears thats exactly what they're doing.

Sleepy

Personally I download for a multitude of reasons:

1. Price - Boxsets are exhorbitantly expensive - when they come down in cost in sales on play.com and the like, I'll buy them but I rarely spend more than €25 on a box set.

2. Timing (a) - I don't want to have to wait for Irish channels to get the show after it's been spoilered to hell after it's US airing.

3. Timing(b) - I like to watch a TV show when I choose, not when RTE / Sky choose for me.

4. Portability - as a consultant I travel for work quite a bit. It's great having a few episodes of shows you like on your laptop for viewing on flights, in departure lounges, hotels etc. Box-sets or broadcast TV don't give you this option.

If the shows became available for high-speed, low cost (50c - $1 per episode maybe account-based?) download in a decent quality and DRM free so that I was free to watch as many times as I liked / burn it to DVD using conversion tools etc. I'd sign up straight away. It's the only model I can see working in the future tbh.

Our man in Havana

I agree 100% with you there. Couldn't have put it better myself.

citytillidie

Dodge wrote: »

Its an international rights thing. In the US you can watch Lost from the ABC wesite (and all the other US networks are the same). But ABC don't own the show, and the producers want the money from RTE, Sky and a channel in every other market in the world

And its the same here, you can watch Lost and prison break or anything thats been on sky on the sky website, you can watch rte live on the rte website and if your in the north you can watch the bbc iplayer too

jor el

corblimey wrote: »

My only issue with the current er "method" is speed. You're relying on others.

Hmm, premium usenet, 7Mbps broadband and you have Lost in about 12 minutes.

Sleepy wrote: »

1. Price - Boxsets are exhorbitantly expensive - when they come down in cost in sales on play.com and the like, I'll buy them but I rarely spend more than €25 on a box set.

I buy boxsets of the shows I really like, pretty much as soon as they're available, but wouldn't spend more than 50 euro on an entire series (none of this part 1 part 2 bullsht). Something like Lost or Prison Break, I'd not watch again as it's suspense based (by and large) and would loose it's appeal the second time round. The Wire, The Shield, cartoons like Futurama, South Park and Family Guy are all worth buying, even after downloading.

Sleepy wrote: »

2. Timing (a) - I don't want to have to wait for Irish channels to get the show after it's been spoilered to hell after it's US airing.

The spoilering of big shows in particular (often by the media) is something that really gets to me, and is a big reason behind downloading. Two season finales of The Sopranos were ruined for me by news reports. Sky, and their uber-spoilerific ads for 24, are another thing.

Sleepy wrote: »

3. Timing(b) - I like to watch a TV show when I choose, not when RTE / Sky choose for me.

Sunday and Monday nights seem very popular for the big shows, but just don't suit me. Watch when you like is much better, and better than Sky+ing it.

4. Portability - as a consultant I travel for work quite a bit. It's great having a few episodes of shows you like on your laptop for viewing on flights, in departure lounges, hotels etc. Box-sets or broadcast TV don't give you this option.

A box-set on a memory stick would be very handy.

Sleepy wrote: »

If the shows became available for high-speed, low cost (50c - $1 per episode maybe account-based?) download in a decent quality and DRM free so that I was free to watch as many times as I liked / burn it to DVD using conversion tools etc. I'd sign up straight away. It's the only model I can see working in the future tbh.

Exactly, you just know they'll follow the itunes, DRM, over priced, limited availability model though. Though I'm not sure that the movie/TV industry are a negative towards the Internet and downloading as the music industry has been, so maybe not.

Dodge

citytillidie wrote: »

And its the same here, you can watch Lost and prison break or anything thats been on sky on the sky website, you can watch rte live on the rte website and if your in the north you can watch the bbc iplayer too

RTE don't archive stuff. I can't view the BBC stuff (without doing a little jigging of the proxies) and I don't subscribe to Sky

Mr E

Guys, this is a great discussion, keep it up.

Warning though, any mention of show sources, download links, streaming sites etc. will result in an insta-lock on this thread....

Sea Sharp

Lads, it's allready being done.
www.southparkstudios.com has all the episodes online, it's a legitimate site aswell. You just have to watch adds

channel4.com are doing it. You can see all programmes from the last week

And sky.com are doing it aswell. Although I haven't checked that one out yet.

The future is now

Bubs101

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

Lads, it's allready being done.
www.southparkstudios.com has all the episodes online, it's a legitimate site aswell. You just have to watch adds

channel4.com are doing it. You can see all programmes from the last week

And sky.com are doing it aswell. Although I haven't checked that one out yet.

The future is now

But this is very much a mixed blessing. If you take the South Park case for instance, since SP studios has gone up, all of the other sites that catered for viewing South Park have gone down. It's understandable and with South Park there's little problem. But shows like Lost are now harder to find on the other sites because Fox now show them on the internet, but only for those based in America. Although far from impossible, it's now much harder to find decent streams for Lost online. I preferred the situation when the older companies ignored the net. (I know Lost is a bad example due to the scheduling, but I can't think of a better one, Heroes maybe)

Ponster

The problem Buds is that I imagine that a huge % of the US audience prefer that they can see Lost via Fox Online rather than having to search through websites.

It's only us (non-USA people) for whom the official Lost online site isn't intended for that aren't happy, so you can't really 'complain' as such when a company takes a big step in the right direction.

JC 2K3

I download because of convenience, timing and price.

Personally, I don't want a load of DVDs and DVD cases clogging up my house and I don't want to be bothered swapping discs when I want to watch something different. It astounds me that companies have not designed a system that allows users to download movies/tv series legally, and also that Hard Drive Video Players have not become mainstream. Indeed, my Xbox I modded 5 years ago with XBMC is still probably better than most of the home entertainment systems out there.

Timing's been covered already. I don't wanna be restricted to only watching the current season a domestic channel has the licence for, and only being able to watch episodes when they decide to show them.

As for price, I just can't justify paying €50+ for something I get free anyway on TV. I don't think there is a fair price for downloading episodes of TV series, I do, however, think that it would be fair to add an extra monthly fee onto your ISP subscription for unlimted access to a downloading arena far superior to its illegal counterpart.

MayoForSam

This time of year, there is so much dross on the box (I'm looking at you Sky with your 200+ channels) that I almost HAVE to download to find some quality programming. If a watch a few episodes of some show (e.g. Supernatual at the moment) I haven't seen before and I like it then I may be tempted to purchase the boxset.

The sheer convenience of being able to assemble a library of favourites on my HD that is instantly accessible by streaming (over an Xbox 360 in my case) is great, especially with kids in the house and lots of greasy fingers which substantially reduces the half-life of any DVD's. Again, I am sure that in the coming years as broadband speed increases (maybe not in this country :mad:), the providers will offer a viable online service of quality programming which I would be quite happy to pay for (providing the price was right).

But there will need to be major changes in how programming gets made, who pays for it and who has the rights to broadcast / distribute it - the conventional model just doesn't work and is getting overtaken by technology.

Krieg

I download because

Im too lazy
Don't feel like spending money
Its easy

I could justify by giving reasons like "I dont pay for mediocore content" or "Movies are too expensive", Im being honest.

Our man in Havana

Careful now.

Ponster

Mr.S wrote: »

has anyone ever been charged with downloading/sharing TV shows?

I've only ever heard of people getting stung for Movies and Music

Hmmm, off-hand I don't think so. It doesn't make it ok but the TV industry hasn't chased after downloaders/sharers as much as the music industry has for various reasons that are probably more fit in a different thread and a different forum.

Ponster

Mr.S wrote: »

?

Hey, he told you to be careful !!!!!