Rocky goes to Leinster

Diamondmaker

Cant find the last thread on it

Confirmed now. Good signing...

Aot eing made on the drain North of SH talent. Only going to continue.....

So long as we dont over rely on our ability to poach from the SH and stifle home grown it can be a good thing.

Certianly better than losing all our talent to the SH for example.

Tim Robbins

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Cant find the last thread on it

Confirmed now. Good signing...

Aot eing made on the drain North of SH talent. Only going to continue.....

So long as we dont over rely on our ability to poach from the SH and stifle home grown it can be a good thing.

Certianly better than losing all our talent to the SH for example.

He'll probably play 6 and cover 8, 4, 5. I'd like to see Leinster get Niall Ronan back from Munster to cover 7.

irishbucsfan

Gleeson's replacement.

I heard they'd signed an Islander who can cover the back row as well?

I doubt we're going to get near Niall Ronan in the next while.

Tim Robbins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Gleeson's replacement.

I heard they'd signed an Islander who can cover the back row as well?

I doubt we're going to get near Niall Ronan in the next while.

6ft 6 is too big to play 7 imo. It has to be Jennings at 7.

zAbbo

He's definitely a 6 who can provide cover at 8.

I'm in two minds about him.

1) He's a class act who can help Leinster compete in Europe and is mid 20's (good)
2) He's messed the ARU about for a few months on contracts (bad - possible commitment issues)
3) He's not Irish (very bad)

Tim Robbins

zAbbo wrote: »

He's definitely a 6 who can provide cover at 8.

I'm in two minds about him.

1) He's a class act who can help Leinster compete in Europe and is mid 20's (good)
2) He's messed the ARU about for a few months on contracts (bad - possible commitment issues)
3) He's not Irish (very bad)

We are looking at having 5 non Irish players in our starting 15 next season. That's not really on if we want to develope players. If Munster and Ulster were to do this, it would mean we have 2 players on average for each position to select from for the national team. Ridiculous really.

JohnoB

Errrr....where was this confirmed? Cant see any news on it from the usual sources

JohnoB

oh yeah sorry, just seen the times now!! D'uh

Diamondmaker

JohnoB wrote: »

Errrr....where was this confirmed? Cant see any news on it from the usual sources

Ehhhh wel I AM a few hours ahead here :pac:

wonder could I use my powers of fortune telling for evil

[Jackass]

Gerry Thonrnley - Irish Times wrote:

Leinster hope Elsom moves sooner

THE AUSTRALIAN Rugby Union and the Wallabies management are seemingly resigned to losing the 32-times capped Rocky Elsom to Leinster, with the Waratahs blindside flanker expected to sign for Michael Cheika's team by the end of this week.

However it is still unclear whether Elsom, a potent ball-carrying number six in the Waratahs' surge to this season's Super 14 final, will be released by the ARU's new early-release policy in time to join Leinster for the start of next season, or whether the 25-year-old will be obliged to see out the remainder of his existing contract and thus be part of the Wallabies' end-of-season tour to Hong Kong and Europe in November.

As Leinster would much prefer the former, the indications are Elsom, along with the Auckland Blues utitlity back Isa Nacewa, will be free to link up with Leinster in time for the start of the 2008-09 campaign, with the Springboks' prop CJ van der Linden also expected to join.

Just to let you know, this is not confirmed yet, but a deal is believed to have been done.

Wow, two massive signings if they go ahead as planned! Fingers crossed there's no last minute hic-ups.

I'm not a fan of relying on imported talent, but Leinsters proposed 3 "big" signings this year really are massive! The only thing I'm kicking myself about is that we lost the Reddan deal, because I think then we'd have a feckin brilliant squad.

Also it allows Jennings to come into his prefered and bettr 7 slot and Elsom will go 6 with Keogh as cover and he will also cover the 2nd row along with Trevor Hogan.

Funkstard

Great signings if they all go ahead. We'll have no excuses next season.

mickyt

I think the squad is complete for next year as long as the young guys keep on developing.

I know people are saying that its keeping irish players out of the squad. but with the magners league they will still keep getting their shots.

and having players like CJ and Rocky, can only help these players improve to new levels

dc69

Its not a done deal at all,so the thread title should be changed!

GT,doesnt have any insider info on the transfer,he just copied it from this article

http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/06/10/Elsom_ready_to_leave_for_Ireland

published last night.

Sparky14

They'll be great signings for leinster, not Ireland unfortunately. A pity we can't keep Le Roux around for one more season, having a front row of le roux/healy, jackman and CJ would be immense. Elsom will add another bit of class to the backrow.

Though I was thinking if I could have one player in the world sign for leinster it would be Bakkies Botha (apart maybe from McCaw) and it looks like he will be available if he wins his constitutional case against the bulls, unless i've missed something. Just think hes the toughest forward around at the moment, would make are pack frightening. What do u guys think?

dc69

Id have cj over botha anyday tbh.

Sparky14

I'd agree now that Le Roux is going we're more in need of a prop. But I think Botha is a more valuable player, what CJ has going for him is that he is a phenomanel ball carrier with great speed for someone his size, but think Botha is so dominant in the tight a bit like Johnson or an in form O'Connell. I used to be a bigger fan of Matfield, but I now think Botha is the best lock in the world and would along with cullen create huge strength in the pack.

dc69

Sparky14 wrote: »

I'd agree now that Le Roux is going we're more in need of a prop. But I think Botha is a more valuable player, what CJ has going for him is that he is a phenomanel ball carrier with great speed for someone his size, but think Botha is so dominant in the tight a bit like Johnson or an in form O'Connell. I used to be a bigger fan of Matfield, but I now think Botha is the best lock in the world and would along with cullen create huge strength in the pack.

BJ botha is a prop.what are you on about?

did you confuse him to bakkies Botha half way through.

RugbyFanatic

Very good signing for Leinster

perhaps they will meet us in the HEC final next year!! (joking not that cocky!)

Podge_irl

Sparky14 wrote: »

A pity we can't keep Le Roux around for one more season, having a front row of le roux/healy, jackman and CJ would be immense.

Wright was absolutely fantastic for Leinster this year - him, CJ, Knoop and Healy is a fairly decent set of props.

Sparky14

dc69 wrote: »

BJ botha is a prop.what are you on about?

did you confuse him to bakkies Botha half way through.

Was talking in general about the signings Leinster were making and was just saying that if we were bringing in foreign players I would have liked if we'd tried to get Bakkes Botha (the 2nd row) ahead of Van der Linde or Elsom.

Sparky14

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wright was absolutely fantastic for Leinster this year - him, CJ, Knoop and Healy is a fairly decent set of props.

Agree Wright showed huge improvement this year, deservedly getting into the magners league team of the year. However Le Roux was inspirational and the cornerstone of the pack last yr, would you not agree that Le Roux even now is a far better player than Wright. Is Knoop a decent prop? haven't seen a huge amount of him apart from the odd 10/15mins here and there.

Sparky14

dc69 wrote: »

BJ botha is a prop.what are you on about?

did you confuse him to bakkies Botha half way through.

By the way hasn't BJ Botha joined Ulster or am I going insane, good player but definitely prefer Van Der Linde for his pace alone. Tho again as someone was saying earlier another Irish prop will inevitably be pushed out.

irishbucsfan

Sparky14 wrote: »

another Irish prop will inevitably be pushed out.

At the moment it seems Irish props are too few and far between to be pushed out anyway.

We need to be watching this JRWC and looking for the best young props in world rugby, and shipping them in at that age, because we just arent producing home grown props it seems.

That being said, Ill be fascinated to see how Healy gets on against the US tomorrow

Sparky14

irishbucsfan wrote: »

At the moment it seems Irish props are too few and far between to be pushed out anyway.

We need to be watching this JRWC and looking for the best young props in world rugby, and shipping them in at that age, because we just arent producing home grown props it seems.

That being said, Ill be fascinated to see how Healy gets on against the US tomorrow

Very tempting to try to naturalise some young argies or springboks, but it's a slippery slope u might suddenly spot a nice fijian for the wing. Think it would devalue winning if we were actively recruiting foreign youngsters, tho the kiwis have always done it.

what say what?

all we have to do is look at how importing foreigners affects the english football team. The best league does not mean the best national team.

if we were to import players constantly we might as well do away with the academies

also look at jeremy manning (not a prop i know). he stays in munster, gets paid, gets to play some games and goes to college all at munsters expense, then as soon as a nz team show interest he jumps ship.

Thats the downside of trying to naturalise players - there are no guarantees.

imo its better to have irish players playing for irish teams, support them in the good and bad times and leave mercenaries to football.

as for the all blacks importing players - see how often they choke at the wc, thats karma.

irishbucsfan

what say what? wrote: »

all we have to do is look at how importing foreigners affects the english football team. The best league does not mean the best national team.

I think you're missing the point here...

The entire point is that we are naturalising young foreign players, so that they can play for the national side. All thanks to rules which exist in rugby which do not exist in soccer, so that example really doesn't work.

I'm not talking about importing players at every position. We need no help at positions like the back row, or center or full back where we have historically produced excellent players. I'm talking about positions like prop forward, for example, where we have never produced top quality players on a regular basis, and probably never will.

what say what?

im biased on this one, i have a relation whos an irish underage intl prop

i see the sacrifices and effort he makes on a daily basis, to think that we should import a foreigner is offensive, what sort of message does this send out to kids - your not good enough give up and we'll get someone else in

the talent is there we need to invest in our young player development

for example - in france they place all their u-18's together for their final year in school, they live together and train together - this provides results

in contrast the irish set up at the same level involves 5 weekends together over the course of a year

im not making this up - the irfu needs to get serious about how they want rugby to progress

as for the irish props at senior level - i think we can hold our own

Healy imo doesnt look like the finished article at prop, but he has hooker written all over him - he would be as good as wood if he made the switch

Podge_irl

Sparky14 wrote: »

Agree Wright showed huge improvement this year, deservedly getting into the magners league team of the year. However Le Roux was inspirational and the cornerstone of the pack last yr, would you not agree that Le Roux even now is a far better player than Wright. Is Knoop a decent prop? haven't seen a huge amount of him apart from the odd 10/15mins here and there.

LeRoux was certainly behind a lot of the good things that happened in the Leinster pack last year, but hopefully that will have helped the other players and they can continue on without him. CJ is a fantastic replacement assuming it does come through and given LeRoux's age its probably for the best anyway.
Knoop has seemed very effective the few times he has played. Him and Wright certainly made a good combo at the start of the season. He's also Irish qualified which helps. Seems somewhat injury prone though.

dc69

what say what? wrote: »

Healy imo doesnt look like the finished article at prop, but he has hooker written all over him - he would be as good as wood if he made the switch

I agree with 100% about what you said,regards healy,he can play hooker but we have so many hookers and no props in Ireland he is being made a prop.

Sparky14 wrote: »

Was talking in general about the signings Leinster were making and was just saying that if we were bringing in foreign players I would have liked if we'd tried to get Bakkes Botha (the 2nd row) ahead of Van der Linde or Elsom.

sorry,I only understood,when I re-read your initial post.

btw,leinster are in need of a prop(like cj van der linde),a hell of a lot more than a lock(like bakkies botha).If we have no props and a non functioning scrum,what difference will a world class lock make?

anonymous_joe

what say what? wrote: »

im biased on this one, i have a relation whos an irish underage intl prop

i see the sacrifices and effort he makes on a daily basis, to think that we should import a foreigner is offensive, what sort of message does this send out to kids - your not good enough give up and we'll get someone else in

the talent is there we need to invest in our young player development

for example - in france they place all their u-18's together for their final year in school, they live together and train together - this provides results

in contrast the irish set up at the same level involves 5 weekends together over the course of a year

im not making this up - the irfu needs to get serious about how they want rugby to progress

as for the irish props at senior level - i think we can hold our own

Healy imo doesnt look like the finished article at prop, but he has hooker written all over him - he would be as good as wood if he made the switch

Was in school with a brace of very talented props. They'd be in their early 20s now. First things first - developing props is not ever going to be easy. Their size etc takes years to achieve.

The major problem is that the vast majority of our underage players are locked away in schools until they're 19 or so, and by then many are already fairly burned out, and unwilling to commit to rugby. Unless the club scene becomes the dominant force in youth rugby, certain problems in our development of youth are inevitably going to continue.

dc69

As far as im aware,they are now trying to do something about this.

In England they have prop camps and I think we are trying to sort out the same sort of thing over here.

They get 17-21 yr old and feed them as much food as possible in 2 weeks and hope a prop comes out:).

No seriously,they are trying to do something about it.

escobar

dc69 wrote: »

Its not a done deal at all,so the thread title should be changed!

GT,doesnt have any insider info on the transfer,he just copied it from this article

http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/06/10/Elsom_ready_to_leave_for_Ireland

published last night.

It says in the article we are getting paddy wallace to leinster in the bargain.:pac::pac:

tHE vAGGABOND

In England they have prop camps and I think we are trying to sort out the same sort of thing over here.

There is a bloke in the IRFU who's full time job is front row development..

Look at the best front row's in the world, VERY few of them were prop's in school. They are second rows and back rows who where just below the grade for that position in top class rugby, and who then bulked up and became prop's as a last shot. [Sheridan being the best example, he was average professional level second row, who became best prop in world IMHO]

Beanmachine

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

There is a bloke in the IRFU who's full time job is front row development..

Look at the best front row's in the world, VERY few of them were prop's in school. They are second rows and back rows who where just below the grade for that position in top class rugby, and who then bulked up and became prop's as a last shot. [Sheridan being the best example, he was average professional level second row, who became best prop in world IMHO]

Yeah this is true.Another case of this is that freak from New Zealand Ben Afeaki think he's around 6'5 and 140kilos he used to play second row and Number eight for his school when he went to Harbour they converted him straight away.Watched him last night against Ireland he is a monster who is only going to get better.

Neil3030

So what is the craic with Van Der Linde? Did he slip in under the radar? His Wikipedia page says he plays for Leinster....

dc69

Neil3030 wrote: »

So what is the craic with Van Der Linde? Did he slip in under the radar? His Wikipedia page says he plays for Leinster....

No news,someone just wrote that on his wikipedia.

guapos

from planetrugby.com




Wallabies flanker Rocky Elsom has been granted an early release from his contract following the 2008 Tri-Nations series on unspecified "compassionate grounds".

Australian Rugby Union (ARU) chief executive John O'Neill announced that Elsom would be free to depart and take up a deal with Irish club Leinster in September, three months before his contract was due to expire.

He declined to elaborate on the compassionate grounds for letting the 25-year-old veteran of 33 Test appearances go early, but said Elsom could have been lost to Australian rugby for good if it wasn't given.

"It would be inappropriate for us to comment further on the conversations we have had with Rocky," O'Neill said.

"He took us into his confidence and this remains a confidential matter between Rocky and the ARU.

"What we can say is that we have offered Rocky valuable advice moving forward.

"We also factored into the equation that not giving him this assistance, in the form of an early release, meant we could have lost him to Australian rugby permanently.

"As it stands now, we hope to have Rocky back in Australia by the middle of next year."

O'Neill said Elsom had been keen to be available for the Wallabies during their Spring Tour to Europe in November while based in Ireland.

However ARU policy would prohibit Elsom's selection in those circumstances.

"Players based overseas are ineligible for Wallabies selection," he said.

"There is no intention of relaxing that stance."

He said the Elsom situation was not a case of rubber-stamping a convenient sabbatical for a leading player.

"This was a specific request and we looked at all the factors involved," O'Neill said.

We want our best players playing in Australia.

"It is important to our game at all levels to have the Wallabies wearing the jumpers of our Super Rugby and Test teams and, on occasions, our club sides.

"While we will miss Rocky on the Spring Tour, he could be back playing again with the Wallabies next season."

bamboozle

he'll be a great signing for Leinster, he'll be the mongrel in the pack which we've been sadly lacking, keogh at best is decent back up but for his size he's been very disappointing.

Diamondmaker

Heard hes going, from his own mouth - on the footy show.

On a panel with tuqiri and did not get a word in.