Laptop for music recording

Dagon

Does anyone have any advice on what is the best laptop to go for as a portable digital audio workstation? I want to be able to record and edit music like I did on my old PC. Obviously gigantic memory and storage is needed, but just as importantly I'll need something with a decent soundcard - yet a lot of manufacturers don't really give much info on the soundcard specs... e.g. dell.

Some of the specialised DAW retailers are quite expensive (especially when you compare to dell for similar spec):
http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/v...m?recordid=119
http://www.musicstore.de/is-bin/INTE...cAAAEVABpWf70R

Maybe the best option is just to go with a very high spec Dell XPS and then add on hardware such as the MBox, or Line 6 pod? And do everything else through the software?

thanks for any advice

fitz

The inbuilt soundcard in the laptop isn't gonna give you great results, if it is even capable of the task at all!

Look at USB or Firewire interfaces. You can pick up two channel interfaces for relatively little, the MBox is a good example. You could try something like Reaper on Windows to as your DAW, it's cheap, or Garageband if you go Mac.

Personally, having gone Mac about a year ago, I've never looked back.
Have a read of the stickies on getting started, there's more info there.

frobisher

I'm sure you don't need me to reiterate that you shouldn't be using the on board sound card, but just in case, DON'T USE THE ON BOARD SOUND CARD! I'm not sure what your budget or application is but multiple i/o prosumer firewire units have been knocking round for a few years now so you could pick something up pretty cheap on evil-bay. And there are rakes and rakes of USB units with smaller numbers on the i/o end but that may suit you. I think Lexicon did one that is now available on offer in various places. Maybe worth a look? You'll certainly want something that has mic pre-amps in it although nearly all of them will. Be careful of the mBox as I think it needs to be in all the time, even for mixing. Maybe someone else could clarify that?

I'm usually left cold by the whole Mac v PC debate but I have experienced mac notebooks as being a bit quieter than PC notebooks. However that is my own very unscientific opinion. Very powerful PC notebooks can be picked up cheap these days.

An external drive would be a good idea. Most laptop drives are 5400rpm which is a little slow, although I have a 5400rpm harddrive that has run over 50 audio tracks on just a gig of ram so it's certainly very, very do-able.

For software I'd look at Reaper. It's an AMAZING program and is extremely CPU efficient. I think that's important for laptops as no matter what the specs are I often find them a bit more sluggish than their desktop brethren.

unclebill98

Well I'd be a Mac man myself. Any of the current Mac Laptop range would be a very good start. Yes you can get cheaper PC stuff but I've been there and they just don't offer the stableness off a Mac setup, but sure as mentioned Mac Vs PC is a never ending debate.

So go with whats within your budget.

As for interface, I'm using ProTools. There are plenty of PT options out there, but they always need to be hooked up to the interface to use. Unless you get the new usb key thingy from Digidesign, but that only lets you mix. M-audio do a range of PT stuff thats useful. If you do go Mac, have a look at Logic, its a great piece of software and full of features.

Hd min speed should be 7200rpm. Its possilbe that a 5400rpm would be ok, but sure if you can get a faster one all the better. I would always say use an external drive for audio, but again only if its within your budget to do so.

Do look at all the software out there and see which suits you the most. Reaper is a good starting point.

As for track counts. I've a 4 year old Powerbook and I can get 32t no problem, so I can only imagine what some of the newer machines are doing.

Memory is always good, so the more the better. If you go with Mac, DO NOT GET THERE MEMORY, there are far cheaper alternatives out there. Go search the Mac forum and you'll see.

So pick your OS and the Main programme and the build from there. Bear in mind that most starting interfaces only give a certain amount of inputs. So make sure you get your needs correct from the start. If the interface has ADAT, then all the better. You can then simple add a ADAT interface and increase your inputs. Example, Digidesigns 002r has 4 XLR pres and 4 line ins. So 8 inputs, add on a ADAT unit (Focusrite Octopre, Personus Firepod, M-audio Octane) and you expand that to 16. Of course this all depends on your CPU.

Then again if thats being strained theres always some outboard DSP. Welcome to an expensive career.

blackbagtrack

Since you said pc, I would go with the sony vaio cr series.
But forget the onboard soundcard.

PaulBrewer

Apple is now designing their Laptops with Music Users in mind.

As you probably know Logic is now owned by Apple. Logic will work with most Hardware. For a full Professional piece of software it's now dirt cheap too with a Zillion gigs of high quality samples and comes with Sample Players and Soft Synths galore.

They've also integrated Apogee Interface control into Logic and their entry level box the Duet is a great sounding practical tool. (it's essentially a cut down Ensemble)

A Macbook Logic and a Duet would be a very serious combination.

frobisher

A guy I know is making records in his pretty basic set up and they sound pretty damn sweet. He recently bought an Apogee mini-me and described it as being some of the best cash he has ever spent. They ain't cheap but they is good. Damn, I just fueled Paul's expensive gear ethos. :eek:

Now, if you all don't mind; I have a pot of tea, a toasted cheddar and chive bagel, the unread Sunday papers and my guitar and notebook on a patchwork quilt in the back garden with the sun pouring down like manuka honey. Frob goin' be chillin' supreme. See yas later dudes!! :):)

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

A guy I know is making records in his pretty basic set up and they sound pretty damn sweet. He recently bought an Apogee mini-me and described it as being some of the best cash he has ever spent. They ain't cheap but they is good. Damn, I just fueled Paul's expensive gear ethos. :eek:

Now, if you all don't mind; I have a pot of tea, a toasted cheddar and chive bagel, the unread Sunday papers and my guitar and notebook on a patchwork quilt in the back garden with the sun pouring down like manuka honey. Frob goin' be chillin' supreme. See yas later dudes!! :):)

I have a Mini-Me! and it's great too. They ain't dear either!!

slavedave

I have a basic Acer laptop (Centrino 1.73), 2 gigs of ram that utilises the internal hard drive just for programme files and an external Seagate USB drive to house audio files and sample files. I run several virtual instruments and to date, I have had no problem running them from the external 7200 rpm drive. Most laptops have 5400rpm drives and these can introduce problems if you are streaming lots of big audio /sample files direct from disk. I have tracked up to 6 audio inputs +several VST instruments with no problem and mixed up to 20 tracks without a hiccup. Not too stretching and I am sure it is capable of more. The external Seagate is very quiet which is worth bearing in mind if you are going to record audio in the same room as you track / mix.

The audio interface is a critical choice though. Clearly layout your needs versus wants + a defined budget and then start the search for your ideal(usually compromised) solution. There is a shedload of resources/info on the web for each and every interface. If you can, go USB2.0 over USB. I use firewire on my laptop but it has been a trial to get it up and running properly however it is meant to have the best combination of bandwidth / addressing for external interfaces. Always check out the support for driver updates from the manufacturer, your software providers and your laptop provider and..... always, Always create backups. Laptops are very portable and can easily go walkies/ get sat on/ spilt on etc.
One great tip that has saved my bacon a couple of times is to use an imaging programme (Norton Ghost etc) I personally use DriveImage by Acronis. If you muck up with installations and upgrades at any point, this software can get you back up and running to a previously saved point in minutes (rather than hours/days of having to reinstall every piece of software and their upgrades).

One caveat though is that I dual boot the laptop keeping an ultra slimmed down version of XP as my music DAW (no internet, MSN, flashy graphics in windows, ethernet, wifi, etc) to help things along swimmingly.
The other bootable xp partition is for generic use with all the usual suspects (Office etc). Vista hasn't had a great welcome on the audio boards that I have been on to date.

Neurojazz

I'm a windows user and would say that if your are going 'Firewire' get a MAC - as you won't beleive the compatibility problems! - just ask around on forums here... but if USB then PC is no problem...

The reason is that MAC basically invented / refined the Firewire protocol and it's stable (but Macs can still crash!) - so the firewire side is stable and very, very quick.

Windows = cheap and a few more options software wise, Mac = stable & empty wallet!

RealEstateKing

for a while, and found it a pain in the bum for a while: You gotta boot up Windows, plug in your USB soundcard and load Cubase and arm your tracks, all while getting your guitar caught in your mic stand and spilling your beer all over everything.

I bought a Zoom HD16CD for this purpose: 8 tracks simultaneous recording with phantom powered preamps: You turn it on and it's ready to record: Then when you wanna start mixing stuff just connect it to your desktop P.C. and bam theres your sound files ready to copy over via USB.

I find it's nice to be able to seperate the musical from the technical: make the music first, get technical later.

Of course nerds and pro audio dealers will tell you that you need to spend thousands on preamps and convertors, but I've noticed no difference in sound quality (none that would affect anybody's enjoyment of the recording anyway) and have sold on my fancy preamps since buying it.

PaulBrewer

RealEstateKing wrote: »

Of course nerds and pro audio dealers will tell you that you need to spend thousands on preamps and convertors, but I've noticed no difference in sound quality (none that would affect anybody's enjoyment of the recording anyway) and have sold on my fancy preamps since buying it.

unclebill98

RealEstateKing wrote: »

for a while, and found it a pain in the bum for a while: You gotta boot up Windows, plug in your USB soundcard and load Cubase and arm your tracks, all while getting your guitar caught in your mic stand and spilling your beer all over everything.

I bought a Zoom HD16CD for this purpose: 8 tracks simultaneous recording with phantom powered preamps: You turn it on and it's ready to record: Then when you wanna start mixing stuff just connect it to your desktop P.C. and bam theres your sound files ready to copy over via USB.

I find it's nice to be able to seperate the musical from the technical: make the music first, get technical later.

Of course nerds and pro audio dealers will tell you that you need to spend thousands on preamps and convertors, but I've noticed no difference in sound quality (none that would affect anybody's enjoyment of the recording anyway) and have sold on my fancy preamps since buying it.

I dis agree. You can not compare Zoom to Apogee at all or any other higher/mid end gear. Laptop setups do not have to be complex at all. I started out on a Fostex VF16, it does not compare at all to when i went laptop based.

I would agree that if your setup is not working correct it will just lead to you not being creative. The best computer setups are the one you turn on and never have to touch. how hard is laptop-cable-interface-programme-record. Seeing that in both setups you must plug in the mic!

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Think Paul disagrees too :D

PaulBrewer

unclebill98 wrote: »

I dis agree. You can not compare Zoom to Apogee at all or any other higher/mid end gear. Laptop setups do not have to be complex at all. I started out on a Fostex VF16, it does not compare at all to when i went laptop based.

I would agree that if your setup is not working correct it will just lead to you not being creative. The best computer setups are the one you turn on and never have to touch. how hard is laptop-cable-interface-programme-record. Seeing that in both setups you must plug in the mic!



Think Paul disagrees too :D

:D

RealEstateKing

This whole convertor/preamp voodoo bullsit is just a way to sell fancy products to people. It arises from the need to sell people some form of fancy hardware now that more and more things have become digital.

Now I grant, that it might make a 10 or 15% difference to your sound - but, and here's the rub - this is not a difference you will notice unless you are already recording in a 1,000,000 euro acoustically treated space.

If you're recording in your house, or a rehearsal room or at a live gig, the difference between a Mackie level preamp and a fancy one would be like paying hundreds of quid to get special double-embossed name cards on the table at a traveller wedding. In the chaos nobody will notice.

PaulBrewer

RealEstateKing wrote: »

This whole convertor/preamp voodoo bullsit is just a way to sell fancy products to people. It arises from the need to sell people some form of fancy hardware now that more and more things have become digital.

Now I grant, that it might make a 10 or 15% difference to your sound - but, and here's the rub - this is not a difference you will notice unless you are already recording in a 1,000,000 euro acoustically treated space.

If you're recording in your house, or a rehearsal room or at a live gig, the difference between a Mackie level preamp and a fancy one would be like paying hundreds of quid to get special double-embossed name cards on the table at a traveller wedding. In the chaos nobody will notice.

RealEstateKing

RealEstateKing wrote: »

This whole convertor/preamp voodoo bullsit is just a way to sell fancy products to people. It arises from the need to sell people some form of fancy hardware now that more and more things have become digital.

Now I grant, that it might make a 10 or 15% difference to your sound - but, and here's the rub - this is not a difference you will notice unless you are already recording in a 1,000,000 euro acoustically treated space.

If you're recording in your house, or a rehearsal room or at a live gig, the difference between a Mackie level preamp and a fancy one would be like paying hundreds of quid to get special double-embossed name cards on the table at a traveller wedding. In the chaos nobody will notice.

classic..

PaulBrewer

RealEstateKing wrote: »

This whole convertor/preamp voodoo bullsit is just a way to sell fancy products to people. It arises from the need to sell people some form of fancy hardware now that more and more things have become digital.

Now I grant, that it might make a 10 or 15% difference to your sound - but, and here's the rub - this is not a difference you will notice unless you are already recording in a 1,000,000 euro acoustically treated space.

If you're recording in your house, or a rehearsal room or at a live gig, the difference between a Mackie level preamp and a fancy one would be like paying hundreds of quid to get special double-embossed name cards on the table at a traveller wedding. In the chaos nobody will notice.

RealEstateKing is perfectly entitled to his opinion. If he has a solution that works for him, then that's the right solution.

As I've said before it's not about elitism or necessarily "1,000,000 euro acoustically treated space. " - to me it's about the best tool for the job.

Voodoo it ain't !

Neurojazz

30k euro is enough

eoin5

Afaics the preamp/audio interface market works on an exponential scale, 10 times more money to get something twice as good. Seems like almost everything in audio works that way.

unclebill98

**** in **** out.....

People should start with that....

PaulBrewer

eoin5 wrote: »

Afaics the preamp/audio interface market works on an exponential scale, 10 times more money to get something twice as good. Seems like almost everything in audio works that way.

Seems like everything in life is like that!

Dagon

Cool, some interesting debate going on!!

Thanks for all the advice - I'm not sure sure about ADAT, can you explain? I've googled it but it brings up info on old tape recording media.

At the moment I'm leaning towards getting something low cost like this, with all of the highest cpu and memory options:
http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?b=&c=ie&cs=iebsdt1&kc=N4XM1534&l=en&oc=N0615358&rbc=N0615358&s=bsd

.. and then beefing it up with some external hardware, such as the MBox, or other pro tools hardware. So USB seems like a good option - although I need to know more about it before I invest, you guys have highlighted some cons.

The M1530 also comes with a firewire port, but you've stated that this doesn't work so well on Windows?

Btw, I don't have any intention of using Vista, so it will be a clean XP install.

Note:
I should probably state what king of recording I'm doing; most of my guitars, bass etc. will be recorded directly (digitally) using a POD or some such hardware, like the mbox. Other than that, I need to have good cpu/memory that allows me to use drum programming software such as AddictiveDrums (these things are pretty intensive and need a lot of memory), and other sample-based software such as classical orchestras, midi keyboards, etc.

In the future I'd hope to be able to record vocals acoustically, but for now I'll probably use a professional studio because I find it hard to get the right sound in my house.

Note: Paul Brewer - I wonder are you the same Paul Brewer that sold me a Taylor guitar in Dublin about four years ago? I'm still using it, and it's been an excellent guitar.

PaulBrewer

Dagon wrote: »

Cool, some interesting debate going on!!

Thanks for all the advice - I'm not sure sure about ADAT, can you explain? I've googled it but it brings up info on old tape recording media.

At the moment I'm leaning towards getting something low cost like this, with all of the highest cpu and memory options:
http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?b=&c=ie&cs=iebsdt1&kc=N4XM1534&l=en&oc=N0615358&rbc=N0615358&s=bsd

.. and then beefing it up with some external hardware, such as the MBox, or other pro tools hardware. So USB seems like a good option - although I need to know more about it before I invest, you guys have highlighted some cons.

The M1530 also comes with a firewire port, but you've stated that this doesn't work so well on Windows?

Btw, I don't have any intention of using Vista, so it will be a clean XP install.

Note:
I should probably state what king of recording I'm doing; most of my guitars, bass etc. will be recorded directly (digitally) using a POD or some such hardware, like the mbox. Other than that, I need to have good cpu/memory that allows me to use drum programming software such as AddictiveDrums (these things are pretty intensive and need a lot of memory), and other sample-based software such as classical orchestras, midi keyboards, etc.

In the future I'd hope to be able to record vocals acoustically, but for now I'll probably use a professional studio because I find it hard to get the right sound in my house.

Note: Paul Brewer - I wonder are you the same Paul Brewer that sold me a Taylor guitar in Dublin about four years ago? I'm still using it, and it's been an excellent guitar.

There is none other! I was with Music Maker for a very interesting year before Audio Warehouse.
Glad your Taylor is still making music with you! Cheers.

Dagon

Any more advice is much appreciated, or comments on my last post:)

brown-dog

I use a mac and find them brilliant for music - have a set up in studio in my house and my mac book is used for live stuff. I used to use a PC but once I switched I have never looked back. Can get them tweaked so that bigger memory can be put in