Irish Requirement

fliptzer

Hi,

I’m 28, degree in Business Studies, peace commissioner, self employed, etc. I’ve been always fascinated with law and have been thinking about becoming a barrister for some time now. I’ve done some research, looked at courses and am considering the Kings Inns diploma but just have a couple of questions in relation to the Irish Language.

Do you need Irish to study law/become a barrister? I never did Irish for my Leaving Cert so it might mess things up a bit for me.

Someone told me that Irish is a requirement (but they weren’t sure) and there is currently plans/laws being discussed/legislated to remove Irish as a requirement. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

Finally, if you do need to learn Irish, what is the status for British citizens? Can they get an exemption? I might be able to legally get a British passport (hold duel nationality) if it would help me.

I’d really appreciate any suggestions/answers.

Thanks.


PS: Is Irish used at lot in the courtroom?

Tom Young

The 1929 Act which places this requirement on a statutory footing is due for repeal and reform via a new statute this year. If I'm not mistaken its this month.

See www.oireachtas.ie [Bills] I think its called the Legal Practitioners Act.

The requirement is not something that should vex or worry anyone and technically there are no current exemptions. The new bill contains a requirement to undergo tuition and have Solicitors and Barrister who want to practice in Irish tested/examined at a commensurate level.

All British citizens should learn Irish

Rhonda9000

Yes - it was a Private Members Bill from the Labour Party. More here http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/1193307952308446.html

Dandelion6

What Tom is referring to: The Legal Practitioners (Irish Language) Bill, a Government bill, has gone through both houses of the Oireachtas at this point. It had an enactment clause which basically said it would become effective at whatever point the Minister decided it was to become effective. As far as I can tell that hasn't happened yet.

fliptzer

Thanks for that, I’ve contacted the Minister’s office to see if there is any update, otherwise I mightn’t be able to do it. :mad:

I was glancing through a prospectus recently and I noticed the phrase ‘taking the silk’. My understanding of it is that once you become a barrister you are classed as junior council, and that in order to become senior council you must be a junior for 15 years and then do something called ‘taking the silk’ – is this correct? Or is it that a barrister is called senior council by solicitors as they are more senior to them?

I read in a law book that a judge, say for the circuit court, can be appointed from barristers with at least 10 yrs experience (along with other criteria) but if this is also true it means you could in theory become a judge quicker then senior council – which doesn’t really make sense to me as a judge would be the most learned. Am I reading this right?


Thanks for all your help, it’s a bit difficult trying to get into this area from a non legal background but it’s very interesting.:)

Tom Young wrote: »

All British citizens should learn Irish

LOL

I'm not British I'm Irish but was going to get a British passport if it meant I could skip Irish on the basis that I'm a British citizen (while not mentioning the fact I have duel citizenship) – isn’t that how the legal mind works lol

Tom Young

SC I believe is 9 years standing at very bare minimum - www.lawlibrary.ie

My note above was indeed referring to the Fianna Fail, not Labour bill (but at least Labour moved the issue on).

Tom

mcgarnicle

Anyone have any update on this?... Would be nice not to have to dust off the old Irish books

Tom Young

Yeah its been signed, due to be passed in August.

Edit: Its been passed, due to be signed in August ....oops.

dermot_sheehan

The Bill seems to have passed both houses of the oireachtas on or shortly after the 4th of july
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=8555&&CatID=59&StartDate=01%20January%202007&OrderAscending=0


In accordance with article 25.2 of the constitution the president is supposed to sign it not earlier then 5 days and not later then 7 days from that date.

The Bill doesn't have a section on commencement by the minister so immediatly comes into effect upon the president signing it.

mcgarnicle

Well that's one less thing to worry about anyway.

Brooke01

mcgarnicle wrote: »

Well that's one less thing to worry about anyway.

Our Bill, the Legal Practitioners (Qualification) (Amendment) Bill, 2007 seeks to move away from the concept of a compulsory minimum standard and would instead require the King’s Inn and the Law Society to offer a voluntary examination in the Irish language and then issue a certificate of competency to successful candidates. This would ensure that lawyers with competence in the Irish language continue to be available to litigants. Our approach is to promote excellence in the Irish language rather than to seeking to set basic minimum standards

so what standard will this new irish exam be at ??? ordinary level leaving cert level or higher or ...??? any ideas

mcgarnicle

The current exam in the Inns seems to me (as someone who hasn't actually taken it) a bit higher than pass level leaving cert but I don't think it's quite at the higher level. Since it seems the new Irish exam will be harder then I'd guess it will be firmly of higher level LC standard... it's optional though so it only applies to those who actually want to take it.

I don't know what the Law Socs Irish exams are like.

dats_right

Brooke01 wrote: »

Our Bill, the Legal Practitioners (Qualification) (Amendment) Bill, 2007

Bill has now been enacted!

http://www.lawsociety.ie/displayCDAContent.aspx?groupID=149&headerID=11080&code=latest_news

StudentEmeritus

Why are they still calling it a bill even though it's been enacted? Still an option to sit the exam at Inns and LS students. Should you be sucessful you will be entered onto a register of lawyers at both level and noted as one proficient enough to operate professionally as Gaeilge.

dermot_sheehan

http://www.irisoifigiuil.ie/pdfs/IR110708.PDF#page=4

Bottom left

johnnyskeleton

fliptzer wrote:

PS: Is Irish used at lot in the courtroom?

In less than 1% of cases, and usually only fluent gaelgoers will be briefed in them.

fliptzer wrote: »

I was glancing through a prospectus recently and I noticed the phrase ‘taking the silk’. My understanding of it is that once you become a barrister you are classed as junior council, and that in order to become senior council you must be a junior for 15 years and then do something called ‘taking the silk’ – is this correct? Or is it that a barrister is called senior council by solicitors as they are more senior to them?

Taking slik is the process whereby a junior counsel (a member of the outer bar) becomes a senior counsel (a member of the inner bar). Silk refers to the silk gown worn by S.C. as opposed to the one made of cheap stuff for junior counsel (or B.L.). To take silk you must practise at least 10 years, be highly regarded as an expert advocate and have a completely unblemished professional history. Senior counsel do a different type of job than junior counsel, they would only be involved in serious or well paid cases and they generally (it must be said) take about 4 times longer than junior counsel to make the same point. They also sit in a row ahead of junior counsel in court.

fliptzer wrote: »

I read in a law book that a judge, say for the circuit court, can be appointed from barristers with at least 10 yrs experience (along with other criteria) but if this is also true it means you could in theory become a judge quicker then senior council – which doesn’t really make sense to me as a judge would be the most learned. Am I reading this right?

It really depends. A barrister or solicitor might be appointed a district court judge after 10 years, but to be appointed to the Circuit, High or Supreme Court they would have to be a lot more experienced and have a good reputation for themselves. While a lot of judges would be quite learned, others are quite the opposite.

Mrspinkbunny

I would love to do the dip in legal studies but have nothing to support my application and its now to late to apply.