TV faulty, when to ask for refund?

cherrio

Question, at what stage can I ask (demand?) a refund?

The Story,
Bought a TV in Aldi in April of last year. Then in March of this year started develop issues (flickering and screening going black). Contacted the telephone support line. After about 3 weeks of been jerked around (filling out the same form 3 times, calls not been returned, etc...) Got a work order number. Then another two weeks of been jerked around by an Irish company (again, calls not been returned or promising to phone me back and never doing so).

Finally in May a repairman came out and replaced a wire and went off again. Within a day or two however a new (different) issue had started (lots of horizontal lines). I left if go for a week or so, but it's only getting worse. Euro 2008 is only a few days away and I want a working TV.

The TV comes with a 3 year warranty and developed its first fault in year 1. So when can I ask for a refund? Any thoughts /suggestions?

thx

penexpers

You can ask for a refund but you are not entitled to one. The TV is old, so I think a repair/replacement would be fair in this case.

craichoe

cherrio wrote: »

Question, at what stage can I ask (demand?) a refund?

The Story,
Bought a TV in Aldi in April of last year. Then in March of this year started develop issues (flickering and screening going black). Contacted the telephone support line. After about 3 weeks of been jerked around (filling out the same form 3 times, calls not been returned, etc...) Got a work order number. Then another two weeks of been jerked around by an Irish company (again, calls not been returned or promising to phone me back and never doing so).

Finally in May a repairman came out and replaced a wire and went off again. Within a day or two however a new (different) issue had started (lots of horizontal lines). I left if go for a week or so, but it's only getting worse. Euro 2008 is only a few days away and I want a working TV.

The TV comes with a 3 year warranty and developed its first fault in year 1. So when can I ask for a refund? Any thoughts /suggestions?

thx

Oh oh .... Aldi would have given a cash refund no problems. Now you've accepted a repair so your contract is now with the manufacturer....

cgarvey

craichoe wrote: »

Now you've accepted a repair so your contract is now with the manufacturer....

eh?

craichoe

cgarvey wrote: »

eh?

Once you accept a repair from the manufacturer it affects your warranty with the retailer. I.e. you get it repaired once your now dealing with the manufacturer. Different in the case of a franchise as with cars but not so with retailers such as Aldi, Tesco, DSG Group etc.

After you've accepted a repair the retailer wont touch it with a barge pole

Doctor DooM

craichoe wrote: »

Once you accept a repair from the manufacturer it affects your warranty with the retailer. I.e. you get it repaired once your now dealing with the manufacturer. Different in the case of a franchise as with cars but not so with retailers such as Aldi, Tesco, DSG Group etc.

After you've accepted a repair the retailer wont touch it with a barge pole

Eh? Never heard of that before. Where are you getting it from?

Retailer is ALWAYs responsible, is what I have heard, a manufacturer may wish to take responsibility, but legally the retailer is obliged to assist with a remedy.

axer

SDooM wrote: »

Eh? Never heard of that before. Where are you getting it from?

Retailer is ALWAYs responsible, is what I have heard, a manufacturer may wish to take responsibility, but legally the retailer is obliged to assist with a remedy.

craichoe is correct. The reason why you have the right to return to the retailer is because you are not expected to know who the manufacturer is i.e. it would make things far more complicated for the consumer if he/she had to deal with the manufacturer everytime something went wrong. When you accept to deal directly with the manufacturer then you are recognising them and since you didnt get the seller to look after the problem why should they be responsible any more because they didnt get to be involved in agreeing a remedy.

I am trying to think which law this comes under but I think it just comes under contract law itself.

I'm not sure how many places enforce this and I will guess that Aldi wouldn't as they seem to replace/refund without hassle (even when the customer is incorrect). So OP - it has nothing to do with developing a fault at year one but maybe if you go into aldi they might sort you out. The warranty they speak of the is the manufacturers warranty which is optional for you to use i.e. you could have just went back to the shop instead and claimed under the sale of goods act.

cgarvey

axer wrote: »

why should they be responsible any more because they didnt get to be involved in agreeing a remedy.

Because they sold you the unit (contract formed right there), and directed you to the manufacturer for their support (to save them the expense of having to be the middle man)?

Doctor DooM

craichoe wrote: »

Once you accept a repair from the manufacturer it affects your warranty with the retailer. I.e. you get it repaired once your now dealing with the manufacturer. Different in the case of a franchise as with cars but not so with retailers such as Aldi, Tesco, DSG Group etc.

After you've accepted a repair the retailer wont touch it with a barge pole

axer wrote: »

craichoe is correct. The reason why you have the right to return to the retailer is because you are not expected to know who the manufacturer is i.e. it would make things far more complicated for the consumer if he/she had to deal with the manufacturer everytime something went wrong. When you accept to deal directly with the manufacturer then you are recognising them and since you didnt get the seller to look after the problem why should they be responsible any more because they didnt get to be involved in agreeing a remedy.

I am trying to think which law this comes under but I think it just comes under contract law itself.

I'm not sure how many places enforce this and I will guess that Aldi wouldn't as they seem to replace/refund without hassle (even when the customer is incorrect). So OP - it has nothing to do with developing a fault at year one but maybe if you go into aldi they might sort you out. The warranty they speak of the is the manufacturers warranty which is optional for you to use i.e. you could have just went back to the shop instead and claimed under the sale of goods act.

I'd love to see some evidence of that lads. I'm not doubting you but to be sure before I start telling people this is the truth.

craichoe

Its standard across the board, i.e. if a refund is to be issued through the retailer after a repair it has to be carried out from the manufacturers end not the retailers end as the manufacturer has carried out a repair for the customer.

After a repair, the state of the goods has been effectively changed.

I.e. if you get a DOA product from any manufacturer, you make sure it goes back under the 10 working day return policy from their store and not they 1 year warranty for repair.

E.G. You buy a macbook pro from the applestore, it arrives DOA, you confirm the fault with Applecare.

Now...

If you go through repair with Applecare, you've initiated a repair contract with them, you will not be able to get a refund without alot of hassle by going through customer services as their a seperate company from the Applestore. The applestore will not refund you after a repair because the goods have been altered since they sold them, hence they cannot be returned. The company doing the repair doesn't have to give you a refund since they didnt sell you the goods in the first place.

On the other hand if you ring the Applestore and say you want to return it as your not happy with the goods then you get a cash refund and no questions asked.

Its gets really messy when you start involving repair companies with yourself, you should either give it to the retailer and get them to sort it out or just get a straight out refund/replacment from the retailer.

Doctor DooM

craichoe wrote: »

Its standard across the board, i.e. if a refund is to be issued through the retailer after a repair it has to be carried out from the manufacturers end not the retailers end as the manufacturer has carried out a repair for the customer.

After a repair, the state of the goods has been effectively changed.

I.e. if you get a DOA product from any manufacturer, you make sure it goes back under the 10 working day return policy from their store and not they 1 year warranty for repair.

E.G. You buy a macbook pro from the applestore, it arrives DOA, you confirm the fault with Applecare.

Now...

If you go through repair with Applecare, you've initiated a repair contract with them, you will not be able to get a refund without alot of hassle by going through customer services as their a seperate company from the Applestore. The applestore will not refund you after a repair because the goods have been altered since they sold them, hence they cannot be returned. The company doing the repair doesn't have to give you a refund since they didnt sell you the goods in the first place.

On the other hand if you ring the Applestore and say you want to return it as your not happy with the goods then you get a cash refund and no questions asked.

Its gets really messy when you start involving repair companies with yourself, you should either give it to the retailer and get them to sort it out or just get a straight out refund/replacment from the retailer.

I don't know. I have seen many, many cases of refunds given after manufacturer repairs in my time, mainly on electrical goods (kettles and the like) usually after 3 failed repairs, which are performed by the retailer and charged to the manufacturer. These may simply be good will cases, but I have yet to see any evidence which contradicts the sales act, so I am not confident in recommending that to someone here.

Of course I would never recommend someone find their own repair company, it should always be done through manufacturer/retailer. This would be seriously opening up a can of worms.

Spocker

Just to throw some specific information into the mix, all taken from ConsumerConnect.ie, a Government website:

Returning Goods:

consumerconnect.ie wrote:

If the goods you bought are faulty, you have the right to return them to the shop and seek a replacement, a repair or a refund. The consumer's contract is always with the seller of the goods. In the example of the faulty MP3 player, you didn't pay the manufacturer - you paid the shop. So your contract is with the shop, and it's up to them - not the manufacturer - to sort out your problem.

Repairs

consumerconnect.ie wrote:

If an item that you bought is faulty, you have the right to return it to the shop and seek a replacement, a refund or a repair. This is your statutory right. It is up to the shop to sort out your problem. But if the shop offers to repair the item, the repair should be permanent.

Rights Regarding Faulty Goods

consumerconnect.ie wrote:

Q3. I bought a good, which was faulty. The company has repaired the product three times and it's still not working. I've asked for a refund but the retailer is refusing. What should I do?


If you purchase faulty goods, you are entitled to seek one of the three forms of redress outlined in the question above. The legislation does not state who chooses the form of redress.

If a repair is offered and accepted, then it should be permanent. If not, and the same fault occurs again, the buyer is entitled to seek another form of redress.

If you are not happy with the seller's final offer you have a right to take legal action. A case can be taken through the Small Claims Court for amounts up to and including €2,000.

It should be borne in mind, though, that if the seller has made a reasonable offer to you, the court would most likely take this into account. There are no hard and fast rules and each case has to be taken on its own merits.

I think in this case the Seller (Aldi) has not yet made reasonable steps for either repair/replacement/refund so the OP should bring it back to the shop and look for his refund. The involvement of the manufacturer in the repair of the unit does not diminish the buyers rights

Doctor DooM

Spocker wrote: »

Just to throw some specific information into the mix, all taken from ConsumerConnect.ie, a Government website:

Returning Goods:


Repairs


Rights Regarding Faulty Goods


I think in this case the Seller (Aldi) has not yet made reasonable steps for either repair/replacement/refund so the OP should bring it back to the shop and look for his refund. The involvement of the manufacturer in the repair of the unit does not diminish the buyers rights

Good post, the counter argument about this is that when you accept help from the manufacturer it supercedes this, but I cannot see how it does without there being specific legislation.

Is it over 1 year now, OP?

Spocker

SDooM wrote: »

Good post, the counter argument about this is that when you accept help from the manufacturer it supercedes this, but I cannot see how it does without there being specific legislation.

I agree; I also have yet to see anything specific regarding a manufacturers assistance superceding the legal position that the OP's (or any purchasers) contract is always with the retailer. A further quote:

Sale of Goods Act

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

What is a contract?

A contract is a formal agreement between two or more people that is enforceable by law. When you buy goods or services you enter into a contract with the seller. Contracts are made up of terms; some of which can be implied terms. Contracts may be written or oral. It is easier to know what the terms are in a written contract but an oral contract is also enforceable in law. Contracts may differ in many ways and there are no hard and fast rules governing what terms should be in a consumer contract. Terms in consumer contracts must always be fair and clear to the consumer. T.
.
.
.
Consumer contracts are protected by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980.

Spocker

To put it another way, the retailer have accepted there was a fault with the item; they have engaged the manufacturer to resolve the issue, and now another fault has developed. The OP is entitled to seek redress, either of the same type (repair) or an alternative (replacement/refund) from the seller; the fact the manufacturer has attempted the first repair has no bearing on it.

Doctor DooM

Spocker wrote: »

To put it another way, the retailer have accepted there was a fault with the item; they have engaged the manufacturer to resolve the issue, and now another fault has developed. The OP is entitled to seek redress, either of the same type (repair) or an alternative (replacement/refund) from the seller; the fact the manufacturer has attempted the first repair has no bearing on it.

I would agree- as long as it is within the first year (the legal requirement for electrical goods) and the OP still has POP.

cherrio

Thanks Spocker, SDooM and everyone else who replied, much appreciated.

To clarify, when I went into Aldi to report the problem, I was told by the assistant manager that I had to phone the support help line and they'd get it fixed. I thought this was reasonable, but if I had known it would be such a long, frustrating process I wouldn't have bothered.

I think I'll go back in and just stand my ground this time.

Doctor DooM

cherrio wrote: »

Thanks Spocker, SDooM and everyone else who replied, much appreciated.

To clarify, when I went into Aldi to report the problem, I was told by the assistant manager that I had to phone the support help line and they'd get it fixed. I thought this was reasonable, but if I had known it would be such a long, frustrating process I wouldn't have bothered.

I think I'll go back in and just stand my ground this time.

Let us know how it goes dude. If they offer a replacement I would take it (often getting a refund is quite difficult, the legislation doesn't really say you can demand one) but I would not settle for another repair.

axer

My bad, it is when a claim is made under an Extended Warranty/Guarantee i.e. one that you pay extra for, then the buyer can no longer claim off of the seller.

OP: it might be hard to get a refund but all repairs should be permanent so you can argue that. In this case a replacement would be the fairest solution because the TV was working fine for a good few months and a replacement is sure to fix the problem. If they cannot give you a replacement then of course you can demand a refund. They are, however, entitled to only give you a partial refund but if they happen to agree to a refund then more than likely they would just give you a full refund.

foggy_lad

SDooM wrote: »

Good post, the counter argument about this is that when you accept help from the manufacturer it supercedes this, but I cannot see how it does without there being specific legislation.

Is it over 1 year now, OP?

the contract with the retailer usually allows for repairs to be attempted by qualified persons which im sure would include the manufacturer

Doctor DooM

foggy_lad wrote: »

the contract with the retailer usually allows for repairs to be attempted by qualified persons which im sure would include the manufacturer

You are bang on there.