Architect's Quote for Planning

Tester46

I know this is a "how long is a piece of string" question, but just wondering what people's experiences in the real world are.

I have been quoted €4,500 plus VAT and plus all outlays by my architect to draw a straightforward 40sqm rectangular extension to my existing house and prepare the planning application for it. It sounds like a lot to me - it is just a simple and small two room extension and there are no detailed internal bits. His price doesn't include any materials/construction spec or construction drawings either - they're extra.

How does that price sound to you? From looking at these forums (and thank God for these forums) it seems a bit high? I'd be interested to hear from architects - please bear in mind that this is not an unusual or "fancy" extension at all.:)

sydthebeat

How much do you expect this extension to cost?

archtech

Get a few quotes if you're not happy.

Slig

short answer is that you get what you pay for. If the architect is quoting you 4500 then get some examples of their work or get references!
If you are getting a solicitor you wouldnt just price one, or go for the most expensive.
If its a simple extension (and in my experience simple extensions cause much more trouble than 1 off houses) then maybe you dont need an architect to design it.

Tester46

sydthebeat wrote: »

How much do you expect this extension to cost?

€130 per sq ft is the quote I have been given. So thats 430sqft x €130 = €55,900 approx.

Tester46

archtech wrote: »

Get a few quotes if you're not happy.

It's not that I'm not happy. I know I can go out and get lots of quotes, but I like this architect. I am just curious as to whether €4,500 (plus VAT and outlay) sounds low, high or about right for (a) planning drawings and (b) planning application for a straightforward 40sqm single story extension.

Just want to see what people think based on their own experiences - that's the beauty of these boards;)

Slig

Tester46 wrote: »

It's not that I'm not happy. I know I can go out and get lots of quotes, but I like this architect. I am just curious as to whether €4,500 (plus VAT and outlay) sounds low, high or about right for (a) planning drawings and (b) planning application for a straightforward 40sqm single story extension.

Just want to see what people think based on their own experiences - that's the beauty of these boards;)

when you say you like the architect do you mean you like their style of design or like them? for me that sounds expensive (or they just dont want the job) but all our work is outside the malor cities so we are obviously cheaper. Maybe by Dublin standards that is cheap

Tester46

Slig wrote: »

when you say you like the architect do you mean you like their style of design or like them? for me that sounds expensive (or they just dont want the job) but all our work is outside the malor cities so we are obviously cheaper. Maybe by Dublin standards that is cheap

I like the architect and I like the architect's work!:) I am also outside the major cities, out in the countryside. I have to say the price seems a bit steep to me, but I don't want to unfairly try to negotiate my architect down if that is genuinely a normal market rate for that kind of work.

sydthebeat

its very hard to comment as we dont know exactly what hes doing for that price....

remember with extensions.....,
the whole house has to be measured up and drawn up,
the on site utilities have to be assessed to see if they can take the new loading
the design is 'harder' relatively, as you have to design to suit existing rather than a green field blank canvas.... plus interiors of the existing also need to be altered generally...

8% cost of tender price just to do planning is steep.. try to get more for your money... ie will he sign off stage payments and certify the work as well...

Tester46

sydthebeat wrote: »

its very hard to comment as we dont know exactly what hes doing for that price....

remember with extensions.....,
the whole house has to be measured up and drawn up,
the on site utilities have to be assessed to see if they can take the new loading
the design is 'harder' relatively, as you have to design to suit existing rather than a green field blank canvas.... plus interiors of the existing also need to be altered generally...

8% cost of tender price just to do planning is steep.. try to get more for your money... ie will he sign off stage payments and certify the work as well...

That's a fair comment. What he is to do is to (a) design the extension within our instructions i.e. small (40msq), single storey and the same proportions as existing structure, divided into two rooms. He has acknowledged it will be a very simple extension.

He is not doing any alterations whatsoever to the existing house, just marking where the door from the existing house into the new extension will be. He will then put in the planning application (and presumably deal with any additional info requests). None of the nitty gritty of materials/construction spec/tendering/contracts/supervision/sign off and certificates is included in the quote. Just drawings and planning application.

No6

The figure quoted sounds farily steep to me but it depends on the location of your house, the site existing house, neighbours etc etc etc and what Council area you are in, some are easier to deal with than others. If however you like the Architects work then you should go with them, if you try to save money by getting someone else you'll probably not get what you want

Tester46

No6 wrote: »

The figure quoted sounds farily steep to me but it depends on the location of your house, the site existing house, neighbours etc etc etc and what Council area you are in, some are easier to deal with than others. If however you like the Architects work then you should go with them, if you try to save money by getting someone else you'll probably not get what you want

Also fair comment. I am not trying to skimp on the architect. I fully appreciate that he will be vital to the whole process and I like my architect's work generally (even though this is really a simple extension). I simply want to see if the quote I am getting is normal, or maybe a bit on the high side. I don't want to unfairly try to negotiate the architect's fee down if his fee is normal.

From what people are saying here, his fee might be a bit on the high side. What would be more "normal" (and I know there is no hard and fast rule)?

No6

I dont suppose it could be an exempt extension because its only 40m²? have you checked, that might save you money, I'd only charge about a third of that!!

Tester46

No6 wrote: »

I dont suppose it could be an exempt extension because its only 40m²? have you checked, that might save you money, I'd only charge about a third of that!!

Yes, we did think of that but thanks for pointing it out. It is just very slightly over the 40sqm so planning is required. We could try to shrink it to below, but to be honest we don't want to.

Thanks.

No6

wll as I siad above if you get what you want out of it go for it!!

Slig

TBH it sounds abit steep but that is probably their going rate! it will be very hard to negociate down but by all means have a go.
At the end of the day youll probably spend the 3 times that amount putting down flooring and furniture.

witzky

DONT pay that price, you're being robbed. I charge bout 1200e for something like that. If he's going to sign ot off its still bit expensive but just for planning, its way too expensive.

look somewhere else m8

good luck:D:D:D

smashey

I'll do it for half the price.

muffler

I wouldnt pay him half of what he is looking for. Thats a complete rip off. Based on what you have described it appears that his only input is basically a planning submission.

Shop around for a couple of other prices or hammer him down.

ircoha

Tester46 wrote: »

I know this is a "how long is a piece of string" question, but just wondering what people's experiences in the real world are.

I have been quoted €4,500 plus VAT and plus all outlays by my architect to draw a straightforward 40sqm rectangular extension to my existing house and prepare the planning application for it. It sounds like a lot to me - it is just a simple and small two room extension and there are no detailed internal bits. His price doesn't include any materials/construction spec or construction drawings either - they're extra.

How does that price sound to you? From looking at these forums (and thank God for these forums) it seems a bit high? I'd be interested to hear from architects - please bear in mind that this is not an unusual or "fancy" extension at all.:)

If 40 why planning.
In passing 4.5 sounds steep for a basic planning app

Supertech

I'd agree muffler. Sounds like a very simple job. Very little actual design required - so that rules out that old chestnut. Even allowing for the going rate for full architectural services, that's high - I make it about 12% of cost of building which would be within the normal limits, but only 50% of fee would be due at planning stage, the rest at tender and completion. I'd say the same job could be done cheaper, but that's assuming all IS as simple as stated.

Builderfromhell

You say you are paying 4,500 for an architect to draw a simple rectangular extension. That suggest you do not require or want any design input. You have effectively designed the extension yourself and just want planning drawings. In that case get a local Technician to do it.

If however, you assume a rectangular extension is what you will get but this architect can see or come up with a better use of space, a design which will maximise the buildings potential, increase it's value, be simple to build, maximise solar gain and natural light etc. etc. etc. then perhaps the 4,500 is cheap.

Gurgle

Tester46 wrote: »

€130 per sq ft is the quote I have been given. So thats 430sqft x €130 = €55,900 approx.

Off on a tangent I go...
That sounds like pricing from the height of the building boom - a complete rip-off in other words.

I'd guess you could save enough on the build that the architect's €4,500 won't seem so bad after all.

Gumbo

Builderfromhell wrote: »

You say you are paying 4,500 for an architect to draw a simple rectangular extension. That suggest you do not require or want any design input. You have effectively designed the extension yourself and just want planning drawings. In that case get a local Technician to do it.

If however, you assume a rectangular extension is what you will get but this architect can see or come up with a better use of space, a design which will maximise the buildings potential, increase it's value, be simple to build, maximise solar gain and natural light etc. etc. etc. then perhaps the 4,500 is cheap.

i agree, this kind thing would cost you 1500 euro by a technician where i work from, and that would include all newspaper fees, application fees and os maps.


seems fairly expensive imo, but and its a big but, if he is overseeing the ork and signing it off then i may be inclined to say its a decent price.

muffler

kceire wrote: »

but and its a big but, if he is overseeing the ork and signing it off then i may be inclined to say its a decent price.

No, its just for planning drawings and application only. No construction drawings, spec, supervision etc included. I wouldnt like to see what he would charge for the entire package - probably 30 grand :eek:

Mellor

muffler wrote: »

No, its just for planning drawings and application only. No construction drawings, spec, supervision etc included. I wouldnt like to see what he would charge for the entire package - probably 30 grand :eek:

Looks like a cover price to me,

i actually dont think that he is doing planning only, i'd seek clarification on this before you go further

topcatcbr

Tester46 wrote: »

I know this is a "how long is a piece of string" question, but just wondering what people's experiences in the real world are.

I have been quoted €4,500 plus VAT and plus all outlays by my architect to draw a straightforward 40sqm rectangular extension to my existing house and prepare the planning application for it. It sounds like a lot to me - it is just a simple and small two room extension and there are no detailed internal bits. His price doesn't include any materials/construction spec or construction drawings either - they're extra.

How does that price sound to you? From looking at these forums (and thank God for these forums) it seems a bit high? I'd be interested to hear from architects - please bear in mind that this is not an unusual or "fancy" extension at all.:)

If it is under 40sqm it may not need planning permission at all.

Talk to a technitian not an architect. If it is a simple extension it shouldnt require an architects design input.

Save yourself at least 50% on your quoted price.

CamperMan

sounds expensive to me, we got an architect to draw plans for a 2500sq ft house with a garage, do the site plans, soil tests and deal with the planning application for 2750 including VAT

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

Looks like a cover price to me,

i actually dont think that he is doing planning only, i'd seek clarification on this before you go further

This is what the OP said earlier

He is not doing any alterations whatsoever to the existing house, just marking where the door from the existing house into the new extension will be. He will then put in the planning application (and presumably deal with any additional info requests). None of the nitty gritty of materials/construction spec/tendering/contracts/supervision/sign off and certificates is included in the quote. Just drawings and planning application.

topcatcbr wrote: »

If it is under 40sqm it may not need planning permission at all.

and this is what the OP said earlier

It is just very slightly over the 40sqm so planning is required. We could try to shrink it to below, but to be honest we don't want to.

We can only reply to the facts as stated by the OP

Mellor

muffler wrote: »

This is what the OP said earlier


and this is what the OP said earlier

We can only reply to the facts as stated by the OP

I know what he said earlier, but surely its not right.
I hoping that somewhere, something has been lost in translation.
What we all consider planning only is quite simply, maybe the architect was pricing for something else, or OP took him up wrong, the price quoted would suit for a modern extension, with alot of design input, maybe the architect is pricing for that, and the OPs idea of simple (traditional/standard) is being taken up as simplistic, ie minimal. Which is different altogether

topcatcbr

Tester46 wrote: »

€130 per sq ft is the quote I have been given. So thats 430sqft x €130 = €55,900 approx.

430sqft= 39.948 square meter

Tester46 wrote: »

Yes, we did think of that but thanks for pointing it out. It is just very slightly over the 40sqm so planning is required. We could try to shrink it to below, but to be honest we don't want to.

Thanks.

What is slightly over. If its only 41 square meter it would seem silly not to reduce it by this amount (if this is the only issue causing it to require planning).


If you are happy to pay this amount then by all means do so

If you dont wish to pay this amount and believe you are being ripped off (i would tend to agree with this) then get someone else.
You can still like the architect and his work.

At least look for a reduction in fees

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

I know what he said earlier, but surely its not right.
I hoping that somewhere, something has been lost in translation.
What we all consider planning only is quite simply, maybe the architect was pricing for something else, or OP took him up wrong, the price quoted would suit for a modern extension, with alot of design input, maybe the architect is pricing for that, and the OPs idea of simple (traditional/standard) is being taken up as simplistic, ie minimal. Which is different altogether

I can see where you are coming from if there was some confusion in whatever discussions took place. Maybe the OP didn't understand what was included in the architects quotation and then again maybe he did. But that is not for us to assume either way. We can only accept what he has stated.

We will agree to disagree on this one Mellor. The OP was quite clear in what he said and qualified his comments with his responses to questions that were asked. Im not going to play the speculation or the assumption games here. The OP made his position clear. He asked if the quote was OTT and he got a resounding yes reply.