Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Induction - is it alright to prove twice??

  • 05-06-2008 3:38pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭


    My teacher gave me a proof by induction problem today (honours), I can do it but in a wierd way.

    I have to prove that [FONT=&quot]7^n[/FONT] + 2[FONT=&quot]^2n+1[/FONT] + 3 is divisible by 6. So I do the steps and I get this for n = k+1:

    3[[FONT=&quot]7^k[/FONT] + 12N - 3]

    where N is any number. Having done this would it be permissible to prove then that

    [FONT=&quot]7^k[/FONT] + 12N - 3

    is divisible by 2? So I did this and I for k = j+1 I got

    2(7M-48N)

    where N,M are any numbers. If i sub it back in I get that n = k+1 is

    3[2(7M-48N)]
    6(7M-48N)

    Is it alright to do this?

    P.S. 7^k is seven to the power of k.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭ZorbaTehZ


    You're making 2 questions out of one? (I don't know if it's acceptable even) Plus seems to me like its a lot longer than the regular way:

    Prove that 7^n + 2^2n+1 + 3 is divisible by 6, ie:
    7^n + 2^2n+1 + 3 = 6Z, where Z is some number.

    (1)First prove for n=1
    7 + 8 + 3 = 18 = 6[3] ... true

    (2)Assume that it is true for n=k
    7^k + 2^2k+1 + 3 = 6Z

    (3)Prove for n=k+1
    7^(k+1) + 2^[2(k+1)+1] + 3
    7.7^k + 2^(2k+3) + 3
    7[6Z - 2^2k+1 -3] + 2^(2k+3) + 3 ... from (2)
    42Z - 7.2^2k+1 -21 + 2^(2k+3) + 3
    42Z - 14.2^2k - 18 + 8.2^2k
    42Z - 6.2^2k - 18 -> 6[7Z - 2^2k - 3] which is obviously divisible by 6.
    Therefore it is true for n=k+1, if it is..... yadda-yadda.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Ill take that as an "I dont know"....!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Thanks for the reply, I see were I went wrong!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭guX


    I also have a question on induction - you're allowed to manipulate stuff algebraically before you actually prove it, right? Let's say you're asked to prove that x(n) = y(n), but you're able to manipulate x(n) using algebra (and some sequence and series stuff) so that it equals y(n), can you just do that and then do:
    x(1) = y(1)
    y(1) = y(1) (sub in value for x)... true
    x(k) = y(k)... assume true
    x(k + 1) = y(k + 1)
    y(k + 1) = y(k + 1) (sub in value for x)
    QED?
    


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭declan_lgs


    sorry for interrupting but ftr what's the difference between x E N and x E [N with a wee zero beside it]?

    This pisses me off. Book uses it sometimes and sometimes not.

    N means numbers from 1,2,3... or does it include 0 too? Does N0 include 0?

    dankes


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Well there's considerable debate on whether or not zero is a natural number, so, generally in the exams they'll write xEN\0 if zero is not to be included AFAIK. (the backslash symbolises "less") although it's been a year since i did the leaving so i could be wrong on the convention

    And N with subscript zero is the set of natural numbers including zero AFAIK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 804 ✭✭✭BMH


    The set N is all the natural numbers from 0 onwards inclusive
    No is N without the zero. Just remember it as "No 0" or something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 804 ✭✭✭BMH


    Also, a simpler way is to simply prove that the difference between f(k) and f(k+1) is divisible by six:
    7^(k+1) 2^(2k+3) +3 - (7^k +2^2k+1 +3)
    ...
    =>6(7^k +2^k) which is clearly divisible by 6.


Advertisement