buying a city centre apartment

bean

Hello,
I have just got my bid accepted on a apartment in the city centre. It was 375K which dropped in price and our bid of 325K was just accepted. Its a spacious two bedroom affair with 358sq meters

My wife and i have just moved back to Ireland, she is from the US and wants to have a home of our own.

I have a mortgage set up and we are ready to roll..

Heres the thing

As you all might have noticed prices for houses are plummeting, chances are they will drop a lot more.
Help me out here am i a certified muppet for paying this price or is it a decent price? I really like the place and my wife loves it, we have looked about and it is the best we've seen for the price. We both have safe decent jobs that will comfortably cover the mortgage.

While i know that this is the place for us im wondering if im commiting financial Hari kari? The price did come down a lot. We did also outbid another person to get the place so we doubt we can offer any less for the place.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

pvt.joker

bean wrote: »

Hello,
I have just got my bid accepted on a apartment in the city centre. It was 375K which dropped in price and our bid of 325K was just accepted. Its a spacious two bedroom affair with 358sq meters

My wife and i have just moved back to Ireland, she is from the US and wants to have a home of our own.

I have a mortgage set up and we are ready to roll..

Heres the thing

As you all might have noticed prices for houses are plummeting, chances are they will drop a lot more.
Help me out here am i a certified muppet for paying this price or is it a decent price? I really like the place and my wife loves it, we have looked about and it is the best we've seen for the price. We both have safe decent jobs that will comfortably cover the mortgage.

While i know that this is the place for us im wondering if im commiting financial Hari kari? The price did come down a lot. We did also outbid another person to get the place so we doubt we can offer any less for the place.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

How long are you planning to stay in this apartment? If less than 5 years then I think you're crazy.

luckat

Is that 4,000 square feet? That's fecking immense? Surely that can't be right??? An *apartment*? Four times the size of a good-sized semi?

gurramok

Hope its a penthouse and/or a 3bed to justify buying and you can afford management fees(sounds like you can).

And yes prices will continue plummeting for apts.

Maybe a typo, hope the OP didnt fork out on a 35sqm apt for that 325k price? :eek:

gamer

Sounds very expensive 2me, for 325sq ft .IS it in a posh area, has it parking space, is it on the south side, each area has a different price , eg i think theres 2bed 700SQ ft apartments in blanchardstown ,free parking space 250k or less.DEPENDS on where do you want to live, a snob will pay 160k extra to live in an UPPER class area, or do want 2 be close to work, 325ft sounds very small 2 me.
IF you want you can withdraw your offer you can,unless you signed a contract.there like 40thousand empty apartments in ireland,prices are going down,
you could buy a house in city centre for 260k 750sq ft,with parking space 4 two cars.
LOOK at daft.ie for sale , whats the price of 700square ft
apartments in dublin.

4 325 k you could buy a house or 700ft apartment ,
1st rule of property ,location determines price,2nd rule
buyer beware, check whats the service charges,
is there good security there ,is there lots of empty apartments,that means higher charges next year 4services.

DJDC

DEPENDS on where do you want to live, a snob will pay 160k extra to live in an UPPER class area, or do want 2 be close to work, 325ft sounds very small 2 me.

What an idiotic thing to say. Its got nothing to with being a snob wanting to live in a safe middle class area that doesn't have a large percentage of council housing/low income households. All the statistics show these areas have higher rates of crime, drug use, lower university attainment rates etc etc. Its called supply and demand, thats why rough/ex-council areas are far cheaper to buy in.

gamer

i ,m not saying theres anything wrong with paying extra to live in a certain area ,its a free market, i suppose there high class areas like d4 that are much more expensive do do with status ,thats why i presume houses in say beaumont are less expensive than dublin 4 , beaumont is a perfectly safe area to live in.Houses near very good schools ,with good transport links tend to be more expensive .I presume this apartment is in a certain area ,cos 325 is a lot to pay 4 a very SMALL apartment ,considering theres much larger apartments going for 250k oe even less.
EITHER hes paying a premium for the area ,to be near work ,or else hes being overcharged.
IF he wants to live in area x and he,s happy 2pay a premium thats his choice ,its like some1 paying 70k for a bmw car ,when a 20k toyota is just as fast.reliable and easier to drive in a city like dublin.

jdivision

358 sq ft is barely large enough to qualify as a one-bed apt OP under Dept of Environment regulations, at that price it certainly isn't 358 sqm

bean

yep bitten by the typo bug. Its 38sq meters. Sorry, bit excited too much caffine maybe...
I plan to live in it for 7 years anyways with the wife

brendan4

38sqm, would be fairly small for a two bed... more like one bed size I think. But having said that, city centre is city centre and will be best placed to keep its value. Comparing it to somewhere out in the sticks like Blanchardstown is ridiculous.

Smoggy

409sq feet wouldn't be the biggest of places especially if you're planning to live there for a while - kids etc.

luckat

Be warned: an apartment without furniture can look spacious until the furniture's in there.

jdivision, where are the dept of env regulations on size? It would be a great thing to sticky a link to them.

It would also be great to give an idea of what's a good size, or an average size for a three-bed house, a four-bed house, a two-bed house, a townhouse, an artisan cottage, etc.

It's really hard to judge sizes unless you're professional, but if you have the actual figures it's very handy.

Incidentally, *is* a 500 square foot apartment really that small? It's half the floor size of a typical semi, but unencumbered with floors and stairs, giving much more living space (as opposed to transit space).

bean

you know it seems quite spacious inside.. you are right about kids but we hope to hold off for a few years anyways.

SkepticOne

Anecdotally, apartments have been the most subject to speculative mania during the recent boom and seem to be losing value fastest in the current bust. There's no type of property that is gaining value but I would go for a house if buying is the only option. Why not rent until you get a handle on the market here?

bean

brendan4 wrote: »

38sqm, would be fairly small for a two bed... more like one bed size I think. But having said that, city centre is city centre and will be best placed to keep its value. Comparing it to somewhere out in the sticks like Blanchardstown is ridiculous.

So thats the second typo ive made on a thread ive started and im not hungover so i have no excuse. Im very, very sorry, the space it 58SQ M. You are right 38 would be small for a two bed.

The_Conductor

SkepticOne wrote: »

Anecdotally, apartments have been the most subject to speculative mania during the recent boom and seem to be losing value fastest in the current bust. There's no type of property that is gaining value but I would go for a house if buying is the only option. Why not rent until you get a handle on the market here?

Agree with this bigtime......
Apartments are far more likely to loose far more in value than houses. I'd also mirror what everyone else has said- its really really small. By the time you have put furniture in it- you will not swing a cat in it. Its barely big enough for a 1 bed apartment, nevermind a 2 bed.......

luckat

So it's 624 square feet. That sounds ok for two people, as long as you don't let the bloody books start breeding.

I don't know apartment prices well. Does this have wonderful advantages? Is it in the IFSC, overlooking the flowing river, with its own kestrel nest on the balcony?

bean

luckat wrote: »

So it's 624 square feet. That sounds ok for two people, as long as you don't let the bloody books start breeding.

I don't know apartment prices well. Does this have wonderful advantages? Is it in the IFSC, overlooking the flowing river, with its own kestrel nest on the balcony?

Its an apartment on the quays between heuston station and o connell street bridge

luckat

Ooh, on the river, lovely. But noisy. I know someone who lived on the quays (on the south side, near Christ Church) and he scarcely slept for the years he lived there because huge trucks went roaring by all night and in the early hours of the morning, making the whole house shake.

He woke one morning early to see the whole road cleared and the army escorting a ginormous truck with POISON signs on it *sloooooowly* along under his window.

markpb

luckat wrote: »

Ooh, on the river, lovely. But noisy. I know someone who lived on the quays (on the south side, near Christ Church) and he scarcely slept for the years he lived there because huge trucks went roaring by all night and in the early hours of the morning, making the whole house shake.

There should be a lot less trucks on the quays these days with DPT being open. There are still a lot of buses and cars though. If I can live near the airport and not notice, I'm sure you'll learn to drown out a few cars

gurramok

bean wrote: »

Its an apartment on the quays between heuston station and o connell street bridge

This part i do not understand.

325k for a 2bed along the quays, what makes it so exclusive to fork out that amount of money for it?
If you had said D4 or one of the other upper market areas, i'd understand the price.
City centre location is good, but the part of the city centre needs to justify the price.

bean

gurramok wrote: »

This part i do not understand.

325k for a 2bed along the quays, what makes it so exclusive to fork out that amount of money for it?
If you had said D4 or one of the other upper market areas, i'd understand the price.
City centre location is good, but the part of the city centre needs to justify the price.

True enough, but it very close to work for both me and the missus, close to heuston station too to help get me back down the country when need arises. No car you see..

confuzed

well OP it's a matter of choice but if you are looking for city center convenience try BAKERYARD on north circular road -within walking distance, more quiter, cheaper and bigger apartments. Or try Herberton, takes 10 mts. to center by Luas again quiter and newer built.
Both has viewing on this saturday, sunday.

TJM

Sounds like a bad idea to me tbh.

You don't say where it is on the quays, but some of those developments suffer from very poor build quality and a transient rental population.

Is there a parking space? You might not have a car now, but you'll probably want one before you move. Without one you may find the place very difficult to resell.

58 square meters is still small for two people - particularly if there's no adequate provision for storage. Even if you have an average amount of stuff each you may find that you end up putting much of it into storage.

Without sounding too negative, I'd be wary of being seduced by the reduced price into thinking that this is good value.

jdivision

confuzed wrote: »

well OP it's a matter of choice but if you are looking for city center convenience try BAKERYARD on north circular road -within walking distance, more quiter, cheaper and bigger apartments. Or try Herberton, takes 10 mts. to center by Luas again quiter and newer built.
Both has viewing on this saturday, sunday.

Do you work for Hooke & Macdonald, bit strange that you highlighted two schemes they're selling which are nowhere near quays. That area of NCR wouldn't be described as quiet, and herberton is in former fatima mansions, one of Dublin's worst areas historically

iguana

OP, apartment prices will have the furthest to fall, so there is no guarantee that in 7 years time the apartment won't be worth a lot less than you are paying for it. I would suggest renting in a similar area for 6 months and seeing how it really is in practice. That way if you hate it you will be able to move easily and if you like it you will feel more secure about that aspect of buying.

Also, you said you were bidding against another party on this sale. How do you know that? It is common practice for estate agents in Ireland to pretend there is another party bidding to make you increase your offer. So while there may really have been another bidder there very likely wasn't.

confuzed

jdivision wrote: »

Do you work for Hooke & Macdonald, bit strange that you highlighted two schemes they're selling which are nowhere near quays. That area of NCR wouldn't be described as quiet, and herberton is in former fatima mansions, one of Dublin's worst areas historically

nup ! I wish I had such skills but I am not good at deceiving people. I suggested these areas because OP is not looking for Quay. He is looking for very near to city center and Bakeryard is within walking distance. Regarding Fatima, those flats have been demolished and rebuilt. I know number of young professional buying in Herberton.

'Ireland is different'. All over the world (almost every mega city from newyork to mumbai) trend is towards apartments and skyscrapers but here people still love land and house. I have lived in a apartment in Zürich for few months and loved it. It was two bed at 5th floor but more spacious than most standard newer built 3 bed semi (85m2) house in Dublin. Tram at your door step and you don't need a car for everyday office journey.
Why don't we learn to built better apartments with good public transport? Why do we want to be dependent on car/oil?

The_Conductor

Quite simply because our politicians don't have the balls to force through building regulations that would be considered restrictive on developers- irrespective of what is in the best interests of the electorate. As for transport- our entire infrastructure is based on driving everywhere- while urban sprawl has dictated this to a certain extent, most recent transport projects have been of the PPP kind- so the taxpayer gets to pay twice for them.......

Re: buying in the city centre- I have to agree, Fatima Mansions had an appalling reputation, which is why the entire area was redeveloped. While I can see that its reputation would put a lot of people off buying in the area- it hasn't stopped quite a few people, and as confuzed puts it- there are quite a few professionals quite happily living there.

The big problem with apartment living in Ireland is rather neatly two major problems- piss poor transport, and the fact that you cannot swing a cat in most modern apartments. An aside would be the utter and total lack of any facilities or amenities developed for the benefit of these new communities- though this is not confined to apartment dwellers. West Dublin has the making of one of the largest ghettos in Europe in the next few years- as developers were allowed get away with daylight murder and the public purse does not have the schekels to build new schools/roads/railway stations/libraries/sports facilities etc. Hell even large towns like Portlaoise, with only half the population of Lucan, despite their own appalling planning and sprawl, are streets ahead in terms of facilities and amenities.

I think we are going to have a large very dissatisfied population in the very near future- possibly baying for the blood of all politicians.

chump

€325k
Over 30 years
At 5%

Monthly payment €1,744 and then you will have TRS relief for 7 years? (unsure)
(roughly €16k interest year one, so relief is up to €266 a month if both qualify)

so you'll be paying €1500 odd a month, and then whatever the management fee is.

To me the price does not sound outrageous.

I would insist on a car parking space, ideally 2. (whether you drive or not).

Good luck with it

The_Conductor

TRS is paid at source on the mortgage- both parties must be First Time Buyers in order to get the higher rate- which is paid once, not twice (i.e. its paid on the actual interest on the mortgage).

Maximum ceilings are as follows:

The maximum relief for a FTB (single) is EUR10k or (married) EUR20k

If not a FTB the relief is (single) EUR3k or EUR6k (married)

For a non-ftb the allowance is normally 2k for a single or 4k for a married couple.

If married and only one part is a first time buyer- then the EUR6k limit applies (as revenue will presume that the other half of the relationship are living in it as their PPR- or if they are not, that the property is in actual fact an investment property- in which case TRS does not apply).

Relief is indeed for the first 7 years, then its reduced to zero.

The_Conductor

chump wrote: »

I would insist on a car parking space, ideally 2. (whether you drive or not).

In most cases the car spaces are sold seperately- or in some cases reside with the Management Company who may rent them out or allow residents to use them on a non-allocated basis (first-come-first-served). Allocation of spaces infers a legal right, unless they are actually being sold this is not done.

chump

smccarrick wrote: »

In most cases the car spaces are sold seperately- or in some cases reside with the Management Company who may rent them out or allow residents to use them on a non-allocated basis (first-come-first-served). Allocation of spaces infers a legal right, unless they are actually being sold this is not done.

it's good to be back on these threads :pac:
I've been too busy/lazy to look at them for a while.

It's amazing the turn around in general consensus in the last 12 months.

I feel really bad for all the people in their mid to late twenties who have bought in the last few years. Actually it doesn't matter what age they are. It's gotta be a kick in the nads. Thank feck I'm a pessimist.

bean

chump wrote: »

€325k
Over 30 years
At 5%

Monthly payment €1,744 and then you will have TRS relief for 7 years? (unsure)
(roughly €16k interest year one, so relief is up to €266 a month if both qualify)

so you'll be paying €1500 odd a month, and then whatever the management fee is.

To me the price does not sound outrageous.

I would insist on a car parking space, ideally 2. (whether you drive or not).

Good luck with it

As part of the purchase there is a parking space included inside the complex (gates with code entry)
We are married and first time buyers

bean

iguana wrote: »

OP, apartment prices will have the furthest to fall, so there is no guarantee that in 7 years time the apartment won't be worth a lot less than you are paying for it. I would suggest renting in a similar area for 6 months and seeing how it really is in practice. That way if you hate it you will be able to move easily and if you like it you will feel more secure about that aspect of buying.

Also, you said you were bidding against another party on this sale. How do you know that? It is common practice for estate agents in Ireland to pretend there is another party bidding to make you increase your offer. So while there may really have been another bidder there very likely wasn't.

Yep, im aware of the predictions of a fall, this place really suits us though and we want our own place. We have a lot to think about. We met the other girl who was bidding too during a viewing..

chump

bean wrote: »

As part of the purchase there is a parking space included inside the complex (gates with code entry)
We are married and first time buyers

does not sound bad at all (but that's not to say prices won't fall another 50-100k )
I know people who spent close to 500k buying 2 bed aparts around the north quays with a parking space 1-2 years ago

bean

chump wrote: »

does not sound bad at all (but that's not to say prices won't fall another 50-100k )
I know people who spent close to 500k buying 2 bed aparts around the north quays with a parking space 1-2 years ago

:eek:


Damn...

AARRRGH

bean wrote: »

We did also outbid another person to get the place so we doubt we can offer any less for the place.

Ah the ol' phantom bidder trick. Hard luck for playing along.

bean wrote: »

We met the other girl who was bidding too during a viewing..

Hmmm. Maybe it wasn't a phantom bidder, but at the moment I wouldn't be surprised by any sleazy EA trick.