Senator Ross comes out against Lisbon Treaty

wesclark

http://www.shane-ross.ie/archives/325/vote-no-to-giscards-lisbon-swindle/

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Interesting post.

Brian Cowen and Enda Kenny are disciples of the d’Estaing school of democracy. They are relying on slogans.

Like everyone else then?

The deception is not working.

In fairness, it sort of is.

The hour after Lisbon is passed, the 12.5 per cent tax rate will be in peril.

I find it very alarming that no-one seems to be agreeing on what the Lisbon Treaty means or signifies with regard to our tax rate, seeing as it's one of the most important aspects of the Treaty...

Can anyone pro-Lisbon supporter come out and say that there is definitely no effect on our ability to set our own tax rates, corporate or otherwise, nor is there any indirect effect such as a the ability to harmonise taxes at some point in the future with greater ease, or any sort of weakening of our sovereignty on this matter? And if so can they explain exactly why this is the case, and can this be objectively confirmed? Or vice versa by the no-camp?

paperclip

The Lisbon treaty doesn't actually posit a particular tax rate, but it does allow the EU Court of Justice to outlaw Ireland's low tax rate, by ruling that taxation differences amongst countries negatively affects the markets in the EU.

I'm following the French and Dutch vote by voting NO--- I don't think the 'improvement' in economy is worth the loss of Ireland's ability to govern its own country. Each country will have different standards of culture and imposing broad laws EU-wide will end up having the sad effect of homogenising europe while reducing drastically the say that citizens have in the running of their own country. We wouldn't have much power, for example, if a law were to be passed in the EU for, for example, abortion.


more info here:
http://nationalplatform.wordpress.com/category/tax-harm...ects/

Post the full link paperclip, there's an big "Error 404 - Not Found" from the one you gave :pac:

paperclip

http://nationalplatform.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/ireland-referendum-lisbon-treaty/

wesclark

I know political events have a tendency to get blown out of proportion in the short-term but going against the Lisbon Treaty has definitely lost him my vote (not looking to rehash the argument here). I'm sure lots of his core voters are Yes people (for simplicity consider TCD seanad voters to be ideologically divided between Norris/Bacik types and Ross types, Ross types being DSE stockbrokers, who were solid Yes supporters, Norris/Bacik not aligned to business so he's not affected..... you get my simplified jist).

So, seeing as I have no chance of doing it, will somebody* young please run for the seanad, I'd gladly help you, I don't think Ross can claim to sensibly represent his base after recommending a No vote. I think it's very reasonable that a university elect a Seantor under the age of 30 and I don't think Ross contributes very much to College that I have ever seen

*just a few names, there are many more
Paddy Cosgrave (being the young person who has reportedly already considered doing this and is has laid a certain amount of groundwork)
Tim Smyth
John Mannion
Andrew Byrne
Sein O'Muineachan
Niall Walsh (VdP)



There is no shortage of people who wouldn't just be "isn't it great to see young people getting involved in politics" but are uber-capable.

************************************
http://www.electionsireland.org/biographies.cfm?election=2007S&cons=225

Here's election data. The candidate ideally needs to attract IBEC type votes, but with 33% turnout any type of Get Out The Vote effort could be successful

Crash

To be honest, Senator Norris has lost a bit of respect in my eyes as well for his carry on regarding lisbon. I have issues with people advocating a no vote because they are opposed to the governments actions with relation to promotion of a yes vote as opposed to the actual relevant facts.

And wes, anyone under the age of 30 who I don't have a huge personal or political gulf with (which rules out probably a quarter of the above, to be honest ) would probably get my vote. Ross proved himself to be a crank, Norris proved himself to be a paranoid. Such is life.

wesclark

crash_000 wrote: »

To be honest, Senator Norris has lost a bit of respect in my eyes as well for his carry on regarding lisbon. I have issues with people advocating a no vote because they are opposed to the governments actions with relation to promotion of a yes vote as opposed to the actual relevant facts.

And wes, anyone under the age of 30 who I don't have a huge personal or political gulf with (which rules out probably a quarter of the above, to be honest ) would probably get my vote. Ross proved himself to be a crank, Norris proved himself to be a paranoid. Such is life.

I particularly can't stand the way Ross seems flippant about the whole thing. The reality of running for Irish political office is you get it on the 3rd go if you're lucky but if someone has the staying power (sexual inyourendo aside) a young, articulate senator would be a real asset to Trinity students/students generally/young people generally/ the political establishment generally that we don't have now

Kovik

An astonishingly terrible paper by Ross. With two of our three senators articulating incredibly uninformed No opinions (even if you do support a No platform) it sends a message that the old, ignorant, insular Trinity still lingers on.

Crash

Vote Neil. The real deal.

Boston

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

I find it very alarming that no-one seems to be agreeing on what the Lisbon Treaty means or signifies with regard to our tax rate, seeing as it's one of the most important aspects of the Treaty...

It has no affect on our taxation policy. Despite the fair fetched claims of paperclip. We keep our veto on tax issues, and tax harmonisation can only come into affect if everyone agrees. I'll put it this way, the uk has very similar policies to us so they couldn't force the issue without forcing it with the uk as well.

Btw Norris and ross and tools.

If I don't get my masters.. I'll run for the senate!

Boston

If I wake up tomorrow retarded, I'll run to senate

Boston

Boston wrote: »

If I wake up tomorrow retarded, I'll run to senate

We can share a ticket, if the worst comes to worst