points and stuff.

dubtom

Just a word of warning for all those who use the tunnell,I managed to get a couple of points and an €80 fine this morning for not having my dipped headlights on. My parking lights were on,but obviously they don't count as lights. The Guard also considered giving me a summons to court for 'undertaking' I basically over took several lorrys and returned to the left lane,passing at the time a car doing 40km in the right lane because it was stuck behind the sqaud car doing 40km. Aparently it's an €800 fine and points if convicted for that.He surprisingly decided not to bother on that one.
This is not another kick the guards thread btw, although I do have a bitter taste of revenue collecting in my mouth, just a warning to anyone who uses the tunnell that it may cost you more than the toll if your not on tha ball.

SAABMAN

Didn't you know that it is an offence to have your parking lights on in a moving vehicle. It's in the Rules of the Road. The clue is in the name "Parking" lights.
You can also get points for having your fog lights on if there is no fog.

Ferris

Are you not allowed 'undertake' in slow moving traffic. 40kph is slow moving.

dubtom

SAABMAN wrote: »

Didn't you know that it is an offence to have your parking lights on in a moving vehicle. It's in the Rules of the Road. The clue is in the name "Parking" lights.
You can also get points for having your fog lights on if there is no fog.

No, I didn't know that saabman,obviously the guard didn't either or he'd have done me for that too. Lucky me.

L1011

Ferris wrote: »

Are you not allowed 'undertake' in slow moving traffic. 40kph is slow moving.

Whats the limit in the tunnel? If its 60, 40kmh wouldn't really wash as slow. If its 100/120kmh you'd almost certainly get off in court, and probably for 80.

I've actually never used the tunnel although I use one of their toll tags because they're cheaper than the others!

L1011

Actually, wait a second, what was the squad car doing in the right hand lane at 40kmh? Thats driving without due consideration if I ever saw it...

colm_mcm

MYOB wrote: »

Whats the limit in the tunnel? If its 60, 40kmh wouldn't really wash as slow. If its 100/120kmh you'd almost certainly get off in court, and probably for 80.

it doesn't go on a percentage of the speed limit, the only circumstance where you can overtake the traffic to your right which isn't turning right is if you are in slow moving traffic. i.e queues etc.



I would thought someone driving a taxi would have more of an understanding of safe driving. ilegally undertaking cars with no headlights on in a tunnel doesn't inspire confidence.

dubtom

Thats a bit harsh colm,I'm perfectly aware of how to drive safely. The speed limit in the tunnel is 80 kph,driving at 40 kph in the overtaking lane is dangerous. Making a perfectly legal overtaking manouver and then returning to the left lane is not dangerous or illegal,which is why I don't have a day in court. The Guard obviously realised that or I would.Hands up though about the lights,easy mistake,easy two points.Lets all learn the lesson.

Anan1

As dubtom admits, he should have had his lights on. That said, if the other cars were in the correct lane then they couldn't have been undertaken by anything wider than a skateboard.

colm_mcm

Fair play for coming out and warning us, but I'm sick of people overtaking on the inside and swapping lanes to get ahead,
The rule is simple - keep keft, pass right.

(from the person in the outside lane's point of view, they try to change lane, see no car to the left behind them, then you pass on the inside with no headlights on. you were lucky the cops were so lenient)

Alanstrainor

dubtom wrote: »

My parking lights were on,

This is a pet hate of mine tbh. People seem to have gotten it into there head that their parking lights are their dipped head lights and that their dipped head lights are their full beams. It's happening more and more where i see cars at night with nothing more than parking lights on. It does seem a bit harsh, but at least the Gradaí are cracking down on it.

colm_mcm

yes, parking lights are of absolutely no use to other motorists when a car is moving.

staker

at least you didnt have your fogs on OP, that's a steering wheel down my trousers!!!:mad:

dubtom

I understand what you are saying about the danger of 'undertaking' but if a car in the right lane on any road is travelling at way under the speed limit, should every car in the left lane reduce their speed to fit the slow car. Obviously not, is every car that then proceeds at their normal speed and passes the slow car 'undertaking', No, they are not. The cars travelling at 40 in an 80 zone,and a tunnell to booth, were braking the law,not me, I simply returned, as I should have,to the left lane. As I stated already,I have no court date,no offence commited.Well,apart from the lights.

L1011

colm_mcm wrote: »

it doesn't go on a percentage of the speed limit, the only circumstance where you can overtake the traffic to your right which isn't turning right is if you are in slow moving traffic. i.e queues etc.

I never said it went on percentage of the speed, and the law does not state anything other than "slow moving traffic".

Theres no way any judge in the country would claim that someone doing 40 in the outside lane(s) of a clear 100/120 dualler was not "slow moving traffic"!

If its motorway regulations they'd have been going illegally slowly for clear traffic as it is...

Steve

colm_mcm wrote: »

yes, parking lights are of absolutely no use to other motorists when a car is moving.

+1

I don't think anyone in this country actually uses parking lights for what they were intended.

Steve

dubtom wrote: »

I understand what you are saying about the danger of 'undertaking' but if a car in the right lane on any road is travelling at way under the speed limit, should every car in the left lane reduce their speed to fit the slow car. Obviously not, is every car that then proceeds at their normal speed and passes the slow car 'undertaking', No, they are not. The cars travelling at 40 in an 80 zone,and a tunnell to booth, were braking the law,not me, I simply returned, as I should have,to the left lane. As I stated already,I have no court date,no offence commited.Well,apart from the lights.

It's possible the Garda car was investigating a report of debris in the tunnel and was intentionally being a 'safety' car, slowing traffic until they found it.

L1011

stevec wrote: »

+1

I don't think anyone in this country actually uses parking lights for what they were intended.

I only discovered how to use them for their proper purpose when I whacked the stalk when vacuuming the footwell once (Fiat lights go off when the engines off meaning you need to engage them again while the keys in the ignition, but off, weird one). After having the car for 4 years!

What kind of drain do they put on the battery? I do occasionally have to park outside a mates house on a country road and it'd be nice to be able to use them as intended there to make the car a bit more noticeable...

Steve

MYOB wrote: »

What kind of drain do they put on the battery? I do occasionally have to park outside a mates house on a country road and it'd be nice to be able to use them as intended there to make the car a bit more noticeable...

Often thought the same thing. I'd guess they are designed to be left on overnight - I'd be afraid of a dead battery though.

I once drained a battery by unknowingly leaving a courtesy light on over the weekend. Couldn't for the life of me figure out what was draining it as any time I checked, it was daylight. Ended up buying a new battery and the same happened, drained if the car was left for the weekend. Needless to say I gave myself a slap when I finally copped it.:o

colm_mcm

MYOB wrote: »

Whats the limit in the tunnel? If its 60, 40kmh wouldn't really wash as slow. If its 100/120kmh you'd almost certainly get off in court, and probably for 80.

MYOB wrote: »

I never said it went on percentage of the speed, and the law does not state anything other than "slow moving traffic".

Theres no way any judge in the country would claim that someone doing 40 in the outside lane(s) of a clear 100/120 dualler was not "slow moving traffic"!

If its motorway regulations they'd have been going illegally slowly for clear traffic as it is...

From your first quote, I took it that you thought undertaking someone travelling @40kmph in a 60kmph zone was unacceptable, but undertaking someone travelling @40kmph in a 120kmph zone was ok. I assumed you had some rule of thumb that related to the speed limit.
If someone was travelling at 40kmph in the outside lane in a 120kmph zone, I'd suggest you drive behind them for a while, and if they do not pull over within a reasonable time, flash your lights. This crap of overtaking people on the inside only gives the idiots holding everyone up the impression that they're not in the way of the proper flow of traffic

On your reasoning, any traffic that is travelling at any spead under the speed limit can be overtaken on the inside as it is "slow moving traffic".

beerbaron

stevec wrote: »

It's possible the Garda car was investigating a report of debris in the tunnel and was intentionally being a 'safety' car, slowing traffic until they found it.

Wouldnt they have put their hazards on in that case ?

Zube

beerbaron wrote: »

Wouldnt they have put their hazards on in that case ?

Hazards? Ah, you mean the double-yellow-line parking lights!

Omcd

I find flashing lights rarely works. Thing is cos there are drivers out there who are totally clueless they actually believe they have a right to be crawling along in the righthand lane, so if you flash at them they just think someone is being aggressive to force them out of what they believe is their rightful peice of road, so they deliberately stay there to spite you. I am very reluctant to undertake, but sometimes it becomes necessary to avoid becoming a participant in a rolling roadblock. Gardai do occassionally pull over right lane crawlers and dish out points for it as inconsiderate driving. The continental approach to encountering a leftmost lane (which of course is their fast lane) crawler is to stick out a left hand indicator and wait. Tried this approach with the right hand indicator here a few times and it does work (though it might take a while for them to notice), it's a kind of polite way of letting the driver in front know you'd like to pass - this seems to be less likely to give those who think they are entitled to crawl in the right lane the hump, and more likely to make them move over out of courtesy.

AFAIK, but I could be wrong, the rules of the road say you can undertake if the traffic in the right lane is moving slower than that in the left lane, so that would suggest the first driver past on the left is driving illegally, but others following are not. Last time I went looking for the Rules of the Road to refresh myself it was out of print...

craichoe

Omcd wrote: »

I find flashing lights rarely works. Thing is cos there are drivers out there who are totally clueless they actually believe they have a right to be crawling along in the righthand lane, so if you flash at them they just think someone is being aggressive to force them out of what they believe is their rightful peice of road, so they deliberately stay there to spite you. I am very reluctant to undertake, but sometimes it becomes necessary to avoid becoming a participant in a rolling roadblock. Gardai do occassionally pull over right lane crawlers and dish out points for it as inconsiderate driving. The continental approach to encountering a leftmost lane (which of course is their fast lane) crawler is to stick out a left hand indicator and wait. Tried this approach with the right hand indicator here a few times and it does work (though it might take a while for them to notice), it's a kind of polite way of letting the driver in front know you'd like to pass - this seems to be less likely to give those who think they are entitled to crawl in the right lane the hump, and more likely to make them move over out of courtesy.

AFAIK, but I could be wrong, the rules of the road say you can undertake if the traffic in the right lane is moving slower than that in the left lane, so that would suggest the first driver past on the left is driving illegally, but others following are not. Last time I went looking for the Rules of the Road to refresh myself it was out of print...

In Europe, 2 lane ... left lane is for overtaking .. 3 or more, 1st left is fast lane subsequent lanes are for overtaking.

You ALWAYS keep right, unless theres slow moving traffic in the lane you are in.

Omcd

Yep, they are lot more disciplined over there. The left lane 'crawlers' over there are generally foreign (eg Irish etc:rolleyes:.), and you'll usually find the right most lane clogged up with trucks because thats where they're supposed to be and they are. On the German autobahns, no matter how fast you go, theres always someone going faster, so if in the left hand lane overtaking slower traffic in the right hand lane at any reasonable speed you're only there for a few seconds before someone whizzes up behind with lefthand indicator on - though those who do tend to take full advantage of the absence of speed limits on some of the sections of the autobahns tend to stay out left until someone faster comes along, probably wise when doing 200ks...

Esel

Hey dubtom, welcome back! (Haven't seen you around here for a while?)

Bad luck on getting done there - I'd say you might not have been pulled except for the undertaking thing.

Not getting at you, but I effin' hate seeing people driving at night with only side-lights on. A lot of taxis used to do this, not so much nowadays. I always class these drivers as muppets, who think they are OK because their dash is lit up. The big danger (apart from being illegal) is when one bulb blows - then the vehicle looks like an oncoming cyclist (one with a front light at least!).

Tails142

parking lights are when you have the indicator on with the engine switched off, generally illuminates one of the sidelights on the car front and back.

Sidelights in my opinion are suitable as lights for during the day

dipped beam, high/full beam is self explanatory

colm_mcm

but during the day, you need bright front lights to be visible from a reasonable distance to other road users. people can already see your car when they're within 10 feet of you, which to be fair is how near you need to be to them to notice that they're on.

antodeco

Tails142 wrote: »

parking lights are when you have the indicator on with the engine switched off, generally illuminates one of the sidelights on the car front and back.

Didnt know thats how you turn them on!! Im so going to go out and try that now!!

Tails142

colm_mcm wrote: »

but during the day, you need bright front lights to be visible from a reasonable distance to other road users. people can already see your car when they're within 10 feet of you, which to be fair is how near you need to be to them to notice that they're on.

True colm, probably stems from driving a car with a crappy alternator in the past and being afraid of draining the battery

Dipped lights would be ideal during the day

colm_mcm

turning on one parking light by using the indicator stalk only works on some cars, mostly German.

peasant

What is ideal is designated bright LED daytime driving lights. Less energy consumption than parking lights and really good visibility (by others)

Got me a pair and wouldn't want to be without them

colm_mcm

and they look like front fogs, so you appear cool.

antodeco

peasant wrote: »

What is ideal is designated bright LED daytime driving lights. Less energy consumption than parking lights and really good visibility (by others)

Got me a pair and wouldn't want to be without them

Yup, my parking lights dont work via the indicator method.

I have high intensity white LED's for parking lights. At night time, they are visible as bright as normal lights, but dont project the light out.

staker

I find those daytime LEDS on the those Audis very distorting. Admittedly, you'll see them as soon as they round the nearest bend , but seriously,within 150 yds they just jar my vision.
What's wrong with normal parks? They're just a statement imo.
Has any other european country banned or taken any moves against them yet??

knird evol

colm_mcm wrote: »

... but I'm sick of people overtaking on the inside and swapping lanes to get ahead,
The rule is simple - keep keft, pass right.

(from the person in the outside lane's point of view, they try to change lane, see no car to the left behind them, then you pass on the inside with no headlights on. you were lucky the cops were so lenient)

In a society where the majority of people insist on driving in the right lane at a ridiculously slow speed, deliberately blocking traffic behind them there is simply no option but to drive on by them in the left lane (if clear). And what difference does it make. You should never change lane left or right unless your way is clear - unless your stupid and looking for a crash.
If you ever see someone '"undertaking"' in the left lane and moving in to the right lane ahead, then don't blame them but the fxkwit that was blocking the right lane in the interim. If all concerned are aware of whats going on around them, using their mirrors, checking their blindspots then everything should be ok anyway.

colm_mcm

knird evol wrote: »

In a society where the majority of people insist on driving in the right lane at a ridiculously slow speed, deliberately blocking traffic behind them there is simply no option but to drive on by them in the left lane (if clear). And what difference does it make. You should never change lane left or right unless your way is clear - unless your stupid and looking for a crash.
If you ever see someone '"undertaking"' in the left lane and moving in to the right lane ahead, then don't blame them but the fxkwit that was blocking the right lane in the interim. If all concerned are aware of whats going on around them, using their mirrors, checking their blindspots then everything should be ok anyway.

There is the tiny matter of it being against the law.

On that basis, sure lets all drive through red lights at junctions.
just make sure your way is clear and that all concerned are constantly looking out for people doing it. What could go wrong?

It's a bit of a mystery to me how you can presume that the "fxwit"s hogging the oustide lane would be using their mirrors, checking their blindspots or even be aware that they weren't alone on the road.
The principle is simple. Keep left - Pass right. this gives a number of benefits:

It means that slower moving traffic is kept to the left, making it easier for cars to enter/exit the road

It means that people can change lane on the approach to an exit without the traffic to the left of them moving faster than the lane they're in.

It makes 3 lane roads a lot safer in that you're unlikely to have a car in lane 2 and lane 3 both going for the same piece of tarmac in lane 2 at the same time to make an overtaking manouver

It reduces the need to weave between lanes.

All this takes for lane disipline, is enforcement by the Gardai and education through signs, radio/TV adverts , and driving instructors

ssmith6287

erm were the gards not breaking the law by driving in the right hand lane when there was no trafic in the left lane?

Zube

staker wrote: »

[LEDs]
Has any other european country banned or taken any moves against them yet??

No, and don't hold your breath. LEDs are vastly more energy efficient, and will probably become the standard as time goes on.

Zube

colm_mcm wrote: »

All this takes for lane disipline, is enforcement by the Gardai and education through signs, radio/TV adverts , and driving instructors

Or we could just admit that no-one in Ireland understands lane discipline, and change to the American system where you can pass on either side. As roads acquire more and more lanes, it makes sense.

L1011

Zube wrote: »

No, and don't hold your breath. LEDs are vastly more energy efficient, and will probably become the standard as time goes on.

Indeed I could see them becoming legally required in some European countries (Scandinavian ones, possibly) in the medium term.