wanted a citroen ds

oflynno

hi guys
i am now under duress to find a citroen ds as herself thinks they are nicer than a ford cortina mk3(i want)
anyhoo,i'm looking for a middle of the road,nearly all there and work to do one
rhd if possible,not an estate.

tvm

carchaeologist

the corty would be a lot easier and cheaper to keep im sure,but the ds is a nice motor!!

Esel

http://search.autotrader.co.za/www/cars_search?country=ZA&currency=ZAR&modelexact=1&make=Citroen&model=&keywords=&min_pr=&max_pr=&min_year=&max_year=1980&mileage_RANGE=0&source=&sort=5&SUBMIT.x=32&SUBMIT.y=6

Two gorgeous examples. Seller says he won't let them be exported though!

Anan1

They both look really good. I'd reckon it'd be bad karma to go against the owners wishes, though. There is a red one on eBay uk with only 25k miles from new, for £10,450. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Run_to_da_hills

Keep away from the DS if you are not mechanically minded. These cars need constant upkeep and nursing not mentioning the fact that they will rot from the inside out. They are also every mechanics nightmare. Everything about them is awkward and a curse such as replacing the inboard brake disks or the starting motor.

The few mechanics in Dublin that knows them will screw you on labour and parts. If the hydraulics fail everything fails, brakes, suspension, power steering the lot and you are left with a big lump like a dead whale on the side of the road.

Not saying that they are a bad car as I had a 1971 ID19, they can be a money pit if you get a dud. If you are getting one make sure you have a danm good classic car mechanic with you that knows these cars inside out. On the good side these cars are almost impossible to clamp when they are in the lowest position.

carchaeologist

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

On the good side these cars are almost impossible to clamp when they are in the lowest position.

hehheh, a great reason to buy one;)!

Run_to_da_hills

carchaeologist wrote: »

hehheh, a great reason to buy one;)!

A clamper that knows his cars will know how to remove the rear quater panel with a 17mm socket that gives full access to the rear wheel on the DS.

Lyre61

You have to buy a good one, do your research and pick the version you want and buy from someone that knows what they are selling, in fact join the Citroen Car Club. Check out the adverts in the back.
The problem with Citroen DS sold in this country when new is that once they went second hand every half a***d mechanic decided they could fix them and bodged a lot of the repairs. I have had about 5 of them and currently have an SM. And to be honest they are not that bad to work on compared to some. There are a lot of tricks and shortcuts to geting some of the jobs done. The engine is a big solid lump and puts up with a lot, stick an electronic ignition unit on it and it wont cause you any heart ache. On the suspension front like any car you have to maintain it. Make sure the spheres are charged and flush out the fluid every couple of years. They do rot, check rear suspension mounts, boot floor and sills.
I have a training manual for the hydraulic system, explains it all in a very straight forward manual if you want a copy pm me.
As for Mechanics you wont go far wrong if you pay a visit to Noel Dolphin in Clontarf. Parts are getting expensive and as with everything time is money and old cars no matter what they are dont come apart as easily as they did 30 years ago and the simplest job can turn into a pain in the ass.

Run_to_da_hills

You can also get a nice fiberglass convertible kit for them and take the roof off.

ds20prefecture

I can't say I share Run_to_da_hills' experience. I've had mine for 5 years & 60000km. It only let me down once, about a month after I got it.

Maintenance wise, you have to be vigilant about oil changes and cars around 160000 km will start to need major components replaced. All parts are available either refurbished or new old stock. Some parts are expensive (steering rack €575 + shipping for e.g.) but others aren't (€75 for a new alternator).

So far I've replaced the steering rack 3 times (2 poor quality refurbs), the clutch (major engine out job, turned out to be unnecessary in my case), the alternator and a hydraulic sphere or two. If your not a hands on kinda guy, the labour can be very expensive, but that's true of any car.

The most important thing is to buy the most rust free car you can afford. The mechanics and hydraulics are comparatively cheap to fix compared with a rusty frame or perforated body panels. Cars made from 1967 to 1971 had poor insulation on their wiring looms - new replacement looms are available for around €300 + fitting.
Cars made from 1967 used the green hydraulic fluid (LHM) - a lot lower maintenance than the red fluid 1956-67 cars (LHS).

The upsides are far greater than an inability to be clamped. A unique driving experience, a relaxed long distance cruiser, phenomenal ride quality, arguably the prettiest car ever made, huge depths of innovation. The longer you own the car, the more you appreciate how much effort went into it's design.

You should try to drive a good one before you buy for comparison purposes. If you're dublin based and the time suits you're welcome to a spin in mine.

edit: PS - personally I'd avoid RHD DSs - the average quality of LHD cars is much higher. €10000 should by you a very presentable car in Holland.

richardsheil

Personally I think the Mk 3 Cortina is a far superior car. Much better engineered.

As far as I remember Cortinas like this need suspension rebuilds about once every 20,000 miles which puts the perceived unreliability ( completely undeserved) of the DS' hydropneumatic suspension in perspective.

Richard

Run_to_da_hills

I am only speaking from knowing someone that bought an EFI 23 from a dealer (Unknowingly that he was a dealer) through Buy & Sell in the early 90ies. This guy had a local mechanic look at it and drove it for about three weeks and the arse fell out of it, (literaly) . It was full of bog. It was a RHD UK import and the guy paid well over the odds for it at that time. The guy who bought it hadn't mechanical hands to bless himself and always wanted one of these cars since he was a kid and took your mans word for alott of things about the car when he bought it. He had to prove that the guy he got it off was a dealer and then take him to court to get his money back which he did almost a year later. That guy has since got his dream car 12 years ago.

The ID19 I had was a very clean French Import but dismantled and never finished, I ended up selling as an unfinished project from Clare about 6 years ago when I decided it was too much for me as I had another project i.e. a very early type 2 VW.

I would warn anyone buying any of these cars not to go near them unless they have a very experienced DS freak with them. Any ordinary car mechanic that dose not know what to look out for on these cars is a waste of time. These cars can be a can of maggots if you get the wrong one. The doors and wings could look perfect but the panels under them and the box section sills could be rotten. If the box section is rotten you could spend upwards of 4k getting a professional job done on them. The Hydraulics run through this section and any DIY cowboy welding job on the frame will damage the pipes that pass through. Parts, panels and labour on them are anything but cheap.

unkel

ds20prefecture wrote: »

The longer you own the car, the more you appreciate how much effort went into it's design

Just quoting that because that's exactly how I feel about my car. Maybe something more classic car owners experience. Anyway, back on DS topic!

oflynno

thanks again for all the advice guys
i will take all of this on board before making my decision

maybe i''ll just go ahead with the mini tank first

ds20prefecture

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would warn anyone buying any of these cars not to go near them unless they have a very experienced DS freak with them. Any ordinary car mechanic that dose not know what to look out for on these cars is a waste of time. These cars can be a can of maggots if you get the wrong one. The doors and wings could look perfect but the panels under them and the box section sills could be rotten. If the box section is rotten you could spend upwards of 4k getting a professional job done on them. The Hydraulics run through this section and any DIY cowboy welding job on the frame will damage the pipes that pass through. Parts, panels and labour on them are anything but cheap.

This is good advice. I would advise any prospective DS owner to learn as much about the car as they can before buying through specialist forums, clubs, other owners, etc. Being a body-on-frame car, you could have a car that looks absolutely concours but with a totally rotten frame beneath.

Mind you, the frame is not that difficult to check :
look for bulging between the spot welds on the underside of the sills
have the seller jack the car using the hydraulics and stand
remove the closing panel at the front of the boot and check the cross-member there
check the seal on the roof - it should be supple and tight to the roof, not filled with sealant). Also check the roof lining for signs of staining.
Remove the rear wings (1 bolt, 5 minutes per wing) and check the inner panels and "elephant ears" - you'll know them when you see them.
Remove the rear seat back and check the bottom of the C pillars (2 minute job)
Obviously check the body panels for any signs of bubbling or perforation. The boot floors rot out a lot, particularly in the UK. New panels cost €50 and any competent welder could fit it.

Overall, 20 minutes inspection should satisfy you on the corrosion front.

Hydraulically, there's a couple of simple checks:

Obviously, no fluid spilled under the car. Start it up, put the suspension in high, then low, then normal, pump the brakes a bit, turn the steering fully left and right a few times, change gears into each gear on a semi-auto. No leaks? Excellent, but highly unlikely. A spot or two is common and acceptable. A puddle is not.

Turn the car off, put the suspension in low, then high, then low, then normal. The car should be sitting flat on the road. Now start it and time the length of time it takes to start to rise. Much less than 10 seconds probably means the accumulator sphere is shot and needs replacing (€200 parts and labour). 15 to 20 seconds is about right. Much more than that and it's probably just a little tired, but check the suspension boots to see if they're bloated with fluid.

Once the car is pressurised, you'll hear a whirrr-CLICK! periodically. This is normal. Measure the time between clicks. If its less than 10 seconds, it means you either have a blown accumulator, a dodgy pressure regulator (unlikely) or a component leaking internally (most likely). Turn the steering fully left, wait for a click, then measure the time between the next two. If it changes dramatically then you know it's the steering rack at fault (again, most likely component to fail)

One last check. Turn the car off. Get out and wait for it to drop to normal height. Open the boot and sit on the lip with your feet off the ground. If the car lifts you back up to normal height (even very slowly) the hydraulics are in generally good shape.

Again, 20 minutes will check out most things here.

Mechanically, the DS is a fairly robust device. The simple engine is very reliable, the gearboxes are not weak things tend to be over-sized. The wheel bearing for example is massive.

Inboard brakes are a pain to change the pads on, and changing discs even more so. Check the depth of the lip on the disc, or better yet the overall thickness of the disc with a screw-clamp type measure. Brake parts are available from online suppliers and quite reasonable too.

Original starter motor is also likely to need replacing on a 100000 mile car. Valeo make a much smaller yet more powerful equivalent that is a lot easier to fit than the original. It does involve removing the manifold, and yes, on a 35 or 40 year old car this can be a pain with sheared bolts in the head etc. Once it's done it's good for another 100,000 miles.

Electrically, there's not much there to go wrong, except the insulation on those specific years I mentioned before.

The EFI cars are a little more complex, but I wouldn't let that deter you. The control units are extremely reliable, and again all parts are available. The DS23 EFI had 148 bhp and could fairly shift.

I can post a buyers guide if you're interested. As with any classic - education is your best tool when buying.

Some links on where to look for a good DS
http://www.citroeniddsclub.nl/annonces.asp?steID=1&ID=304
http://www.citroen-andre.com/ - I highly recommend André Pol for parts or cars.
http://www.losson.com/ - French specialist.

I would not recommend buying through a generic dealer, and buying from a specialist is no guarantee of quality either. Having said that, a DS specialist will have more to lose if he sells you a dud, particularly in these days of the instant world-wide community forums. Run_to_da_hills' advice is good - befriend a DS expert online in the area that you want to buy a car and you should be fine.

A friend in Dublin selling his silver DS if you are interested. It is a RHD 1968 DS21 semi-auto with tobacco leather interior. I'm not sure of his price.

Stewohig

oflynno wrote: »

hi guys
i am now under duress to find a citroen ds as herself thinks they are nicer than a ford cortina mk3(i want)
anyhoo,i'm looking for a middle of the road,nearly all there and work to do one
rhd if possible,not an estate.

tvm

Hi, I am just about about to sell mine. She's in beautiful condition, 1968, original interiors and features, dark grey/silver colour, well looked after. If you are interested, email me.
Thanks

Esel

Great advice/info there, ds20.

riverhead

HI, I have two for sale, both in need of restoration, and are in Wicklow. They would be 400 each.

All complete and with teh two, you would definatly have a full complete source of parts.
Give me a ring if interested 087 804 1636

oflynno

any chance of a few pics?

riverhead

Hi They are in very bad shape, only prob to make one out of two or even for parts of another.
A buddy may be selling his,, Its a beauty and he's owned it for about 15 years.
Drop me a line if you are interested,,

Good luck

galwaytt

ds20prefecture wrote: »

I've had mine for 5 years & 60000km.

...wow. 60k ? You must be the guy in the Meteor phone ad !!

I love the look of the DS - and they're beginning to pop up everywhere on the telly as well. The Meteor ad, for one. The Mentalist drives one, and there's another one on regularly which escapes me atmo........

I like 'em.

riverhead

Yes,, they are great and really comfy for a long spin.
Very useable,, great for the looks, and very reliable if you get a good one

DSuper_man

Hi All! First Post (sorry for tagging on to the end of someone else's!!)

Wanted a DS since I was 4... finally found one a few weeks ago. A bit rough around the edges, but nothing too serious

Would I be right in thinking that a judder on take-off means that I need a new clutch? Engine out?

P.S. Riverhead: I don't suppose either of yours have good headlamps and an immaculate 'tabac' leather interior?

Thanks!

Lyre61

Depends on the kind of clutch you have and if it left or right hand drive, The right hand cars with a clutch pedal had a bracket under the steering column about half way down the engine bay that would become bent and cause the clutch cable to judder. Start there, it is an easy item to eliminate.