Metal Detectors

Fighting Irish

First of all, yes i read the charter

METAL DETECTING
- Please refrain from posting anything with reference to obtaining a metal detector, use of a metal dector or ownership of such a product. Metal Detecting for Archaeological finds or close to a site of historical/archaeological importance is illegal under the National Monuments Ammendment Act(1987)

I just wanted to find out a couple of things.

Is it illegal to own a metal detector or just to use one?

It says in the charter that "Metal Detecting for Archaeological finds or close to a site of historical/archaeological importance is illegal under the National Monuments Ammendment Act(1987)" so is it legal to metal detect for things that wouldn't be considered Archaeological finds?

If i had a metal detector, would it be illegal to use it in my backgarden?

Thanks

note: i don't have a metal detector

Fighting Irish

please don't link me to a goverment/law website, reading all that waffle will give me a headache

Riamfada

hey FI. There was one lad who was walking along the M3 route digging up what he could find using the justification "sure its going to be dug up anyway". Heading to places to specifically dig for archaeology is illegal and highly selfish imo. As far as the law states, if you could justifiably say that you are looking for your lost watch it should be grand but that limits you to your back garden .

kadman

Problem is , you are not allowed to have a metal detector within the vicinity of an archealogical site, and you dont know whether you are near one or not.
Some garda will tell you its ok, some quote the monuments act, some dont know.

Another area of contention is, what constitutes an archealogical item of antiquity. A bronze age artifact , or a 1960,s sixpence. You,d be surprised at what is an archealogical find.

I intended to go top of the range, 1800E,s on a metal detector. After many months of researching the issues involved, and final contacts with the curators of the museums in Dublin, I decided against it. I did not want my 1800E,s confiscated by the garda.

kadman

Fighting Irish

Grimes wrote: »

hey FI. There was one lad who was walking along the M3 route digging up what he could find using the justification "sure its going to be dug up anyway". Heading to places to specifically dig for archaeology is illegal and highly selfish imo. As far as the law states, if you could justifiably say that you are looking for your lost watch it should be grand but that limits you to your back garden .

I'm not trying to find a way around the laws, i was just trying to find out info about metal detectors and metal detecting. So you are allowed metal detect as long as its not for archaeology? Would coins fall into that category?

Fighting Irish

kadman wrote: »

Problem is , you are not allowed to have a metal detector within the vicinity of an archealogical site, and you dont know whether you are near one or not.
Some garda will tell you its ok, some quote the monuments act, some dont know.

Another area of contention is, what constitutes an archealogical item of antiquity. A bronze age artifact , or a 1960,s sixpence. You,d be surprised at what is an archealogical find.

I intended to go top of the range, 1800E,s on a metal detector. After many months of researching the issues involved, and final contacts with the curators of the museums in Dublin, I decided against it. I did not want my 1800E,s confiscated by the garda.

kadman

Thanks for the info

vulcan57

I can understand to some extent why the law is there, but surely if you are looking for coins, rings, chains that may have been lost on the beach for instance, I don't see there should be a problem, particularly below the high water mark. Thats in my opinion, I might add, and not what the law may say. Another thing, what else could you use a metal detector for? They are for sale in numerous outlets around the country, so how is that legal? If anything else was being sold that could only be used to for an activity that would be counted as breaking the law, the shop owner would be up in front of a judge like a shot!

Fighting Irish

Grimes wrote: »

hey FI. There was one lad who was walking along the M3 route digging up what he could find using the justification "sure its going to be dug up anyway". Heading to places to specifically dig for archaeology is illegal and highly selfish imo. As far as the law states, if you could justifiably say that you are looking for your lost watch it should be grand but that limits you to your back garden .

I'm not going to do that, but what if its an undiscovered site and when you find it you report it?

anatalist

Fighting Irish wrote: »

First of all, yes i read the charter



I just wanted to find out a couple of things.

Is it illegal to own a metal detector or just to use one?

It says in the charter that "Metal Detecting for Archaeological finds or close to a site of historical/archaeological importance is illegal under the National Monuments Ammendment Act(1987)" so is it legal to metal detect for things that wouldn't be considered Archaeological finds?

If i had a metal detector, would it be illegal to use it in my backgarden?

Thanks

note: i don't have a metal detector

Here's my tuppence worth, if it's of any use. I spent a fortnight with National Museum archaeologists on a follow-up dig after I had found some Bronze-Age gold. They gave me the full SP on metal detectors, which is this: it is not illegal to own a metal detector; it is illegal to use it, without a licence from the Office of Public Works. Each use requires its own licence, which expires on completion of the use. Even the National Museum archaeologists had to apply for a specific use licence just for the search already mentioned.

This was quite a few years ago and, so far as I know, there has been no change made to this rule. If still in force, this rule applies to you and your detector, if you get one.

jimbobjones40

Hi,
I'm new to this section but I've a question related to the above. I've a protected structure and national monument on my land. Is it illegal to use a metal detector even if you own the land in question?

Just to note I'm not some dodge guy that will destroy history looking for treasure. I even invited archaeologist from the museum to do a dig a couple of years ago but nothing came of it.

anatalist

jimbobjones40 wrote: »

Hi,
I'm new to this section but I've a question related to the above. I've a protected structure and national monument on my land. Is it illegal to use a metal detector even if you own the land in question?

Just to note I'm not some dodge guy that will destroy history looking for treasure. I even invited archaeologist from the museum to do a dig a couple of years ago but nothing came of it.

The OPW will jump all over you if you attempt to use a metal detector anywhere, let alone a national monument, even if it is on your land, without having first obtained a use permit from them for the purpose you intend.

I can guarantee you that, without an exceptional reason for doing a search, you will be refused such permit.

Sorry, but that's the position. Ireland has the strictest regulations on treasure hunting and detector use of any in Europe.

Fletch123

Yes it is illegal- as it says above you need a license in order to conduct a metal detector survey regardless if you own the land.

Also, in order for an archaeologist to do a dig or a survey of a monument there has to be a point to it rather than it just being archaeology- they have to be trying to prove something, or to add to a study. Is there anything about your site that you think would warrant investigation? Finds? Historical or folklore associations? Depending on what it is you could do some of your own desk based research into it.

BMurr

So you are walking around your field with a metal detector, does that constitue use or does it have to be turned on, and how can a person who maintains that you are in the act of 'using'a metal detector actually verify/prove that you were using it and not just listening to an outrageously ridiculous looking MP3 player.

Bog Butter

http://www.argos.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=30001&catalogId=1500001501&langId=-1&searchTerms=metal+detector

Check this out; you can buy a metal detector in Argos.

CamperMan

Fletch123 wrote: »

Yes it is illegal- as it says above you need a license in order to conduct a metal detector survey regardless if you own the land.

Also, in order for an archaeologist to do a dig or a survey of a monument there has to be a point to it rather than it just being archaeology- they have to be trying to prove something, or to add to a study. Is there anything about your site that you think would warrant investigation? Finds? Historical or folklore associations? Depending on what it is you could do some of your own desk based research into it.

are you sure you need a license even if it's on your own land??

Millucc

CamperMan wrote: »

are you sure you need a license even if it's on your own land??

Yes. Someone might own the land, but they don't own a national monument that may be on it.

CamperMan

malman wrote: »

http://www.argos.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=30001&catalogId=1500001501&langId=-1&searchTerms=metal+detector

Check this out; you can buy a metal detector in Argos.

one there for €27.79 .... you would be glad to give that one to the guards if you were caught using it..

CamperMan

Millucc wrote: »

Yes. Someone might own the land, but they don't own a national monument that may be on it.

so were talking about land with national monuments then, what if the land does not have any national monument on it

Bog Butter

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1987/en/act/pub/0017/sec0002.html#zza17y1987s2

2. — (1) Subject to the provisions of this section a person shall not—

( a ) use or be in possession of a detection device—

(i) in, or at the site of, a monument of which the Commissioners or a local authority are the owners or guardians or in respect of which a preservation order is in force or which stands registered in the Register, or

(ii) in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register, or

(iii) in a restricted area,

or

( b ) use, at a place other than a place specified in paragraph ( a ) of this subsection, a detection device for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects, or

( c ) promote, whether by advertising or otherwise, the sale or use of detection devices for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects.

( 2 ) ( a ) Upon application in writing therefor to the Commissioners by any person and upon being furnished by him with such information as they may reasonably require and upon payment to them by the person of the prescribed fee (if any), the Commissioners may, at their discretion, subject to paragraph ( b ) of this subsection, grant or refuse to grant their consent in writing to a person—

(i) authorising the use by (as may be specified in the consent) either that person or that person and his servants and agents of (as may be specified in the consent) one detection device or one specified detection device or one detection device of a specified class, kind or type, for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects at a specified place (not being a place specified in subsection (1) ( a ) of this section), or

(ii) authorising the use and possession by (as may be specified in the consent) either that person or that person and his servants and agents of (as may be specified in the consent) one detection device or one specified detection device or one detection device of a specified class, kind or type, at a place specified in the consent (being a place specified in the said subsection (1) ( a )).

( b ) A decision to grant or refuse to grant a consent under this subsection in relation to a national monument of which a local authority are the owners or the guardians shall be made, and the consent shall be granted or refused, jointly by the Commissioners and the authority.

( c ) A consent under this subsection shall remain in force for such period as may be specified in the consent.

( d ) A consent under this subsection may—

(i) be made subject to such conditions as the Commissioners, or the Commissioners and the local authority concerned, as may be appropriate, think fit and specify in the consent, and

(ii) be revoked in writing at any time by the Commissioners or the Commissioners and the local authority concerned, as may he appropriate, and the revocation shall take effect at the time when the person named in the consent is notified of the revocation.

(3) Where an application is made to the Commissioners for a consent under subsection (2) of this section—

( a ) the Commissioners or the Commissioners and the local authority concerned, as may be appropriate, shall, within three months of the receipt by them of the application—

(i) either grant or refuse to grant the application, and

(ii) notify in writing the person who made the application of their decision,

and

( b ) if the person who made the application is not notified as aforesaid of their decision, the Commissioners, or the Commissioners and the local authority concerned, as may be appropriate, shall be deemed to have granted the consent without conditions.

(4) An application to the Commissioners under subsection (2) of this section shall be sent to the Commissioners by registered post or delivered by hand to an officer of the Commissioners at the head office of the Commissioners.

(5) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section or a condition of a consent under this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(6) Where in a prosecution for an offence under this section it is proved that a detection device was being used, it shall be presumed until the contrary is proved that the device was being used for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects.

(7) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (5) of this section to show that the act constituting the offence—

( a ) was the subject of a consent under this section granted to him, or to a person in relation to whom he was acting as servant or agent at the time of the commission of the act, and in force at that time and was not a breach of a condition of the consent, or

( b ) was authorised by a prospecting licence granted under Part II of the Minerals Development Act, 1940 .

(8) In this section"detection device"means a device designed or adapted for detecting or locating any metal or mineral on or in the ground, on, in or under the sea bed or on or in land covered by water, but does not include a camera.

Bog Butter

It would seem to me that it is legal to buy a metal detector but its use is restricted and if you intend on using it for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects you are breaking the law if you do not have a state issued licence.

CamperMan

Thanks malman!!

I am surprised by that, I have owned a metal detector for years, luckily, I have never used it......

Bog Butter

No probs and remember if you do accidentally find an archaeological object it is automatically owned by the state unless you can prove you are a direct desendant of the original owner.

CamperMan

malman wrote: »

No probs and remember if you do accidentally find an archaeological object it is automatically owned by the state unless you can prove you are a direct desendant of the original owner.

I have no intentions of going out with the detector now.., it's not worth the hassle

Bog Butter

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2001/11/29/story18231.asp

Thursday, November 29, 2001 :

FRONT | IRELAND | SPORT | WORLD | BUSINESS

---

Seven-year battle over Christmas gift find


By Fionnuala Quinlan

ON Christmas Day 1979, 16-year-old Micheal Webb's father gave him a Christmas gift which would catapult him into the centre of a seven-year court battle. His father, Micheal Snr, bought him a metal detector so the pair could indulge their shared passion for treasure-hunting. Neither could have imagined that the present would lead them to unearth one of the most significant hauls of Christian art ever made: a treasure trove dating from the eight and ninth century which included the Derrynaflan Chalice.

Mr Webb, then managing director of a Clonmel-based refrigeration and pharmaceutical firm, had owned a metal detector for some years and enjoyed pottering about with it in his spare time.

But on February 17, 1980, Micheal Jnr was on a mid-term break, and - as it was the first clear day since Christmas - the pair decided to try out his Christmas gift at Derrynaflan, an ancient monastic settlement in Littleton bogs, Co Tipperary.

Just 20 minutes after they began, Micheal Jnr picked up a very strong signal and the pair started to dig with a garden trowel. At one point, they came upon the dome of a bronze bowl which was covering the treasure.

Two hours after the dig began, they had dis-covered the chalice, a richly decorated pattern and a wine strainer. Mr Webb immediately knew the chalice was valuable, because he had seen the Ardagh Chalice in the National Museum.

Mr Webb brought the treasures to a UCC archaeological lecturer who was in Clonmel and she arranged for him to transfer them to the National Museum of Ireland the following day. It was a move, which, seven years later, prompted a Supreme Court judge to commend the Webbs' honesty.

The intervening seven years proved a roller-coaster ride for the father and son, who were first offered just £5,000 each, but later had the prospect of a £5.5 million windfall dangled before them.

Unhappy with the £10,000 offered to them, the Webbs took a High Court case and were told they were entitled to keep the treasure, or the £5.5 million it was estimated to be worth.

The State, however, appealed the ruling to the Supreme Court, which ultimately found that under ancient medieval law, the State owned the Christian treasures.

However, Chief Justice Mr Justice Finlay said that on the question of treasure trove, legislation was needed to clarify the situation.

The Webbs were awarded £25,000 each and the State was ordered to pay their legal costs, which could have hit as much as £300,000.

The 1994 National Monuments (Amendment) Act was introduced to avoid such bitter and costly battles.

Bog Butter

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0017/sec0002.html#zza17y1994s2

and here is that amendment

2.—(1) Without prejudice to any other rights howsoever arising in relation to any archaeological object found before the coming into operation of this section, there shall stand vested in the State the ownership of any archaeological object found in the State after the coming into operation of this section where such object has no known owner at the time when it was found.

(2) In this section "owner" means the person for the time being having such estate or interest in the archaeological object as entitles him to the actual possession thereof.

Fighting Irish

My back garden

Fighting Irish

29 coins so far from my back and front garden

Riamfada

Im sorry im gonna lock this because if its getting to the stage that people are posting what they have illegaly found especially if its of archaeological interest that its not on.