News about DVB-T2 (Now English too).

reslfj

watty wrote: »

re: DSO
I appreciate your input / posts.

Watty, I have a link to the total DVB-T2 presentation that I quoted from.

http://www.fub.it/public/Morello020408B.pdf

There are 58 pages and they are in Italian, but with the help of bablefish http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ you should be OK.

Lars

watty

Or indeed my Itallian co-workers.

reslfj

watty wrote: »

Or indeed my Itallian co-workers.

Not needed anymore - dvb.org has published a "DVB-T2 Fact Sheet" .

http://www.dvb.org/technology/fact_sheets/DVB-T2%20Fact%20Sheet.0608.pdf

Lars

reslfj

reslfj wrote: »

Not needed anymore - dvb.org has published a "DVB-T2 Fact Sheet" .

http://www.dvb.org/technology/fact_sheets/DVB-T2%20Fact%20Sheet.0608.pdf

Lars

And you may take a look at the images here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055296948&page=3

Lars

reslfj

reslfj wrote: »

http://www.dvb.org/technology/fact_sheets/DVB-T2%20Fact%20Sheet.0608.pdf

Lars

The DVB-T2 draft standard has been handed over to ETSI to be published as a standard. This takes about a year, but the draft is expected to be published on the www.dvb.org homepage by the end of June 2008.

The standard number will be 'EN 302 755' (DVB-T2) .

DVB-T2 chip vendors have had the standard for more month by now.


Lars

weehamster

wotsat.com

BBC tests DVB-T2 for Freeview HD

The BBC has started test transmissions of new technology which will make HD on Freeview a reality within 18 months.

They're using DVB-T2, a cutting-edge successor to the standard DVB-T system used for Freeview, which increases transmission capacity by up to 30 per cent.

BBC Research & Innovation has developed a prototype DVB-T2 modem to pick up the new signals - they won't work with any existing Freeview or DVB-T receivers.

Justin Mitchell, leader of the DVB-T2 modem development team at the
BBC, said: "We are delighted that our team in collaboration with our
partners has been able to deliver such a key piece of technology in
such a short timescale. This is a big step forward in enabling the
introduction of full HD terrestrial on Freeview by the end of 2009."

DVB-T2 was only finalised by the European DVB engineering group in March this year, but Ofcom and BBC hope to start broadcasts on Freeview by the end of 2009.

We'll be bringing more on the DVB-T2 story when DVB demonstrates it at IBC in September.

reslfj

weehamster wrote: »

wotsat.com 30%

The link in #4 shows a likely bit-rate increase of 40+ % and shows that high bit-rates that can be used even in a large SFN's.

'Justin Mitchell, leader of the DVB-T2 modem development team at the
BBC, said: "We are delighted that our team in collaboration with our
partners has been able to deliver such a key piece of technology in
such a short timescale." '

This BBC press-release shows how much 'hype' there has been around the Ofcom timing. The DVB-T2 'Call for technology' was June 4 2007. All options were on the table, but in just 13 month the standard has been drafted and the first working prototypes are 'in the air'.

Well done - Team - continue the excellent work.


Lars

watty

The UK bods claim that under IDENTICAL conditions, DVB-t2 gets you an extra 30%, same as DVB-s2 vs DVB-s. Claims of 65% don't stand up to scrutiny of Link Budgets.

BBC doing trail and maybe one MUX nationwide in UK converted to DVB-T2 by end of 2009?
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/27/bbc_dvbt2_trials/

Maybe BCI/Comreg/RTE should think hard?

Perhaps a compromise would be DVBt + MPEG4 on one free Mux and DVB-t2 on pay mux / Mux for HD?

reslfj

watty wrote: »

The UK bods claim that under IDENTICAL conditions, DVB-t2 gets you an extra 30%, same as DVB-s2 vs DVB-s. Claims of 65% don't stand up to scrutiny of Link Budgets.

BBC doing trail and maybe one MUX nationwide in UK converted to DVB-T2 by end of 2009?
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/27/bbc_dvbt2_trials/

Maybe BCI/Comreg/RTE should think hard?

Perhaps a compromise would be DVBt + MPEG4 on one free Mux and DVB-t2 on pay mux / Mux for HD?

>Maybe BCI/Comreg/RTE should think hard?

Maybe indeed they should!

The reghardware are not experts in DVB-T2 capacity.

The slides i posted in #1 are much more likely i.e. +45% for UK MFN.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/?p=5402 is quoting the same 45% figure.

This figure of 45% was also quoted at the DTG summit 2008.
http://www.displaysearchblog.com/2008/03/hd-in-europe/

But we will see in a few days, when the DVB-T2 BlueBook is on the DVB.org web.

The much better SFN possibilities with DVB-T2 may be even more important than capacity. This includes the possibilities for inexpensive on channel gap-fillers.

Lars


Anything that need not 'go live' before the end of next year should - of course - not pollute the country with out-of-date DVB-T receivers.

weehamster

What about delaying DTT roll-out here for about a year or so. Do you think that might help.

It would be just feck'n typical of our luck that immedeatly after DTT is launched here that something better comes along offering more bandwidth which is badly need here.

Another report but its 45% extra this time

BBC DVB-T2 tests prepare for HD on Freeview

The BBC has begun DVB-T2 test transmissions today, from the Guildford transmitter southwest of London, in preparation for HD on Freeview. The transmission facilities are provided by National Grid Wireless and Arqiva as part of their support for the DVB standardisation process and the UK project for the launch of DVB-T2 services.

This follows the approval by the DVB Project of the DVB-T2 specification and this will be the first time signals compliant with the DVB-T2 specification will be broadcast. DVB-T2 is the next generation digital terrestrial transmission standard for new HDTV services on Freeview. Currently, Freeview services use the DVB-T standard which was defined more than 10 years ago. DVB-T2 can provide significantly more capacity and this will be essential for HDTV services to be launched on Freeview, currently planned for the end of 2009. The DVB forecasts the use of DVB-T2 will result in capacity gains of up to 45 per cent. Ofcom is counting on the extra bandwidth released by development of the standard to put its HD plans into action.

Justin Mitchell, leader of the DVB-T2 modem development team at the BBC, said: "We are delighted that our team in collaboration with our partners has been able to deliver such a key piece of technology in such a short timescale. This is a big step forward in enabling the introduction of full HD terrestrial on Freeview by the end of 2009.".

watty

The weasel phrase is "up to". No doubt between 33% and 45%.

reslfj

weehamster wrote: »

What about delaying DTT roll-out here for about a year or so. Do you think that might help.

reslfj wrote:

>Maybe BCI/Comreg/RTE should think hard?

Maybe indeed they should!

....immedeatly after DTT is launched here that something better comes along offering more bandwidth which is badly need here.

Another report but its 45% extra this time

DVB-T2 can provide higher bit-rate, but it is much better and less expensive in SFN - Single Frequency Networks- too.
You may also use come of the extra capacity and 'convert' it to a more robust signal and better coverage.

Ofcom has made the combination of both DVB-T2 and MPEG-4 mandatory for the new HD multiplex to save the UK viewers much money and even more trouble. One - not two - new boxes.

It should be even easier to do in Ireland - maybe even in all the island of Ireland.

Lars

reslfj

watty wrote: »

The weasel phrase is "up to". No doubt between 33% and 45%.

Yes and no. For the 'yes' have a look below, the 'no' (da verificare) to be verified.

But look at the presentation in post #1 page 37



The guard of 1/128 is 2.32% more efficient than the 1/32.
The QAM256 CR3/5 is bit-rate equivalent to QAM64 CR 4/5(=0.8) so using LDPC and not CC as primary FEC improves bit-rate by (4/5)/(2/3) = 1.20 = +20%
The BCH vs Reed-Salomon is 8% - 0.3% = 7.7 % better
The fewer scattered pilots is in this case 8% - 1% = 7% better
The continual pilots and the P1/P2 overhead is in total 1.55% better.
The extended bandwidth (using the 32k mode) adds 2.11%

Now remember all these percent's should be multiplied together
(1.0232)*(1.20)*(1.077)*(1.7)*(1.0155)*(1.0211) = 1.467 = 46.7%

Maybe it is decided that 1% of the carriers will be used for PAPR reduction (slide 54) - the bit-rate will fall with that 1% (*.99). This is, however, improving the transmitter economy in a way not possible with the current DVB-T standard.
You may also trade bit-rate for an improved signal robustness.

It is a bit like your get an hourly pay raise of 45% - you may work the same and buy 45% more or you may start working part-time for the same weekly salary, you still gets 45% more per unit of work.

Lars

PS! I would 'sell' up to several Mbps and implement SFN's. MFN and digital-TV is - IMHO - a leftover from analogue.

scath

Any more chance of DVB-T2 happening here if Onevision win the bid given Arquiva are part of the BBC Research testing of it? http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?class=countries&subclass=0&id=3030

Also I suppose H2 can't be far off I suppose. Can only help if the industry goes for the national mobile telegraphy option http://www.comreg.ie/publications/publications.583.0.0.2008.p.html

I'd imagine it'll help the business case as lars said of the whole island going for T2 and MPEG4 first. What about DVB-T2 usb sticks. Could they dampen down set top box sales abit? I'd imagine that portable TVs will drop in sales if usb TV takes off perhaps integrated into laptops as a jackwith an extendable antenna.

Btw I bought an adstech mini-dual TV usb. I assume for Oireachtas TV and HD Ireland I need MPEG4 software to see it. Know where I could download it? tech support number no call back.

Of course if they go for T2 my usb stick would be obsolete here, but that's life...so be it if we get a better standard. Not end of the world.

Also would the USB TV stick be a cheaper option than set top box to buy? Of course this is where laptop speaker quality comes in.

watty

Arquiva was trying to flog MPEG2 kit to RTENL...

USB TV sticks + PC/Laptop are rubbish compared to real set-boxes and TVs.

reslfj

The DVB-T2 standard EN 302 755 has been published as a BlueBook on the dvb.org web.

http://www.dvb.org/news_events/press_releases/press_releases/DVB_pr174%20T2%20Final.pdf
-
http://www.dvb.org/technology/dvbt2/

http://www.dvb.org/technology/dvbt2/a122.tm3980r5.DVB-T2.pdf

There are however little information on bit-rates and C/N.

Lars

scath

Can't remember who asked me about who won rollout contract. It was Net Insight...see: http://www.broadcastbuyer.tv/publish/New_Contracts_24/Net_Insight_Selected_For_DTT_Distribution_Network_In_Ireland_16032.shtml
Looks like SFN's are on the cards.

Also enables them to provide DAB and DVB-H network infrastructure for mobile operators and commercial DAB!

"Net Insight Selected For DTT Distribution Network In Ireland
New Contracts, Infrastructure reports Broadcastbuyer.tv

Tue, 6th, May 2008

RTÉ NL is a communications network operator that distributes and transmits the national programme services of all national TV and Radio broadcasters.

In November 2007, RTÉ NL became a Net Insight customer ordering Nimbra equipment for a network to interconnect its regional transmitter sites. The digital TV switchover is commencing soon in Ireland and RTÉ NL will build and operate a Digital Terrestrial TV (DTT) network.

Net Insight's Nimbra platform will distribute TV signals (DVB-T), DAB radio, data and all current analogue and FM radio channels from the national broadcasters, via optical fiber and microwave links, to 10 main transmitter and multiple repeater sites across Ireland. Net Insight also provides contribution feeds for Outside Broadcast Radio injection at each transmitter site and backhaul of locally generated TV services over this new platform to RTE's main broadcasting centre at Donnybrook.

The network will also implement Net Insight's unique Time Transfer feature for GPS-free time synchronization to allow for easy migration to an SFN (Single Frequency Network) architecture.

The whole network will be managed through Net Insight's Nimbra Vision management platform and offers the additional security of "disaster recovery" systems at two remote locations controlled through Nimbra Vision providing fast restoration of RTÉNL's broadcast services.

The order will be delivered in the second quarter and was received in cooperation with the Irish systems integrator EMR.

"We are proud that our Nimbra platform once again has been selected for a national DTT network", says Fredrik Trägårdh, CEO of Net Insight. "It is a highly efficient multiservice transport solution that provides strong and unique benefits for network operators and their customers."

DTT offers a higher picture quality, better sound quality and a more variety and choice of channels to the viewers. For the operator the technology gives lower operational costs, better utilization of the frequency spectrum with the possibility to offer more TV channels and new services to its customers.

The Nimbra platform has several unique features for DTT and Mobile TV networks such as Time Transfer for GPS-free time synchronization. In addition, Nimbra offers a flexible and cost-effective solution for delivering advanced multimedia services in Broadcast and Media networks and for IPTV/CATV distribution. TV operators deploying Digital Terrestrial TV based on the Nimbra platform not only get a DTT network but a multi-service transport infrastructure that opens up for new business opportunities."
See: http://www.netinsight.se/index_city.asp and the pdf on the page for more about.

scath

On June 18th, ComReg issued DTT regulations in line with the Broadcasting (Amendment) Act 2008. Presumably that's the powers now for the spectrum to be allocated along with said conditions to the winning conditional licensee in addition to BCI conditions under the regulations and to be empowered to agree said contract with the licensee after July 21st.

http://www.comreg.ie/publications/si_198_of_2008_wireless_telegraphy_digital_terrestrial_television_licence_regulations__2008.583.103136.p.html

reslfj

The new
DVB-SCENE 27 has an article with focus on DVB-T2

http://www.dvb.org/news_events/dvbscene_magazine/DVB-SCENE27.pdf

It is written by "Nick Wells, BBC Research and Chairman of DVB TM-T2 Group"

Lars

PS! The capacity of a 64QAM UK multiplex will increase from 24.1 Mbps to 35.9 Mbps or around 49%.

watty

scath wrote: »

C Net Insight also provides contribution feeds for Outside Broadcast Radio injection at each transmitter site and backhaul of locally generated TV services over this new platform to RTE's main broadcasting centre at Donnybrook.

Yes, I was told last year this was why RTE was not using Satellite distribution to sites like Italy, UK Five, France etc does.

reslfj

watty wrote: »

The weasel phrase is "up to". No doubt between 33% and 45%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/09/how_to_build_a_dvbt2_modulator.html

The BBC team is broadcasting with 36 Mbps or 49% more than the UK 64QAM DVB-T mux at 24.13 Mbps.

SFN's will gain even more as the guard interval will be relativly smaller in 32k mode.

Lars

PS!
"In Ländern, in denen das terrestrische Digitalfernsehen noch gar nicht eingeführt ist, oder die sich für die HDTV-Ausstrahlung über terrestrische Sender entscheiden, ist DVB-T2 daher das System der Wahl." /Prof. Dr.-Ing. Ulrich Reimers 29.8.2008

http://tu-braunschweig.de/presse/presseinformationen/index.html?year=2008&pinr=131

taung

DVB-T2 technology seems to be progressing nicely. PACE are currently demonstrating the first DVB-T2 set-top box capable of receiving DVB-T2 HD content.

Source

From Colin Mann in Amsterdam
Pace plc is demonstrating the first set-top box capable of receiving and displaying DVB-T2 HD content at IBC 2008.Pace’s prototype consists of the world’s first DVB-T2 front-end (the silicon tuner TDA18211 and a prototype of the forthcoming demodulator TDA10055) from NXP Semiconductors and a Pace high definition terrestrial set-top box which will receive a live MPEG-4 HD stream from an Enensys DVB-T2 Modulator based at the DVB stand at the show.

DVB-T2 brings efficiencies of between 30 per cent and 50 per cent in its use of spectrum compared to DVB-T and is expected to be a key enabler to the roll out of high definition TV in the UK over Freeview.

Darren Fawcett, Chief Technologist for Wireless Systems at Pace plc commented: "The take up of high definition services within mature TV markets is picking up speed, and is expected to grow substantially over the next five years. But this HD content is currently in the cable and satellite domains. To enable terrestrial services to compete effectively with the other platforms, DVB-T2 is an essential move. As we saw with the shift to the DVB-S2 standard for satellite services, the extra efficiencies in the use of the spectrum will make the option of delivering HD via DTT viable.""

PACE Press Release

Pace demonstrates High Definition over DVB-T2


September 10 2008
Pace plc, the leading developer of digital TV technologies, will be demonstrating the first set-top box capable of receiving and displaying DVB-T2 HD content at IBC 2008.
Pace’s prototype consists of the world’s first DVB-T2 front-end (the silicon tuner TDA18211 and a prototype of the forthcoming demodulator TDA10055) from NXP Semiconductors and a Pace high definition terrestrial set-top box which will receive a live MPEG-4 HD stream from an Enensys DVB-T2 Modulator based at the DVB (Digital Video Broadcasting) stand at the show.

DVB-T2 brings efficiencies of between 30% and 50% in its use of spectrum compared to DVB-T and is expected to be a key enabler to the roll out of high definition TV in the UK over Freeview.
As a leading set-top box developer, Pace has been involved in the creation of the DVB-T2 draft standard, focusing on key technical aspects that add to the improvement and robustness of the standard, which was only confirmed in June this year.

Darren Fawcett, Chief Technologist for Wireless Systems at Pace plc commented: “The take up of high definition services within mature TV markets is picking up speed, and is expected to grow substantially over the next five years. But this HD content is currently in the cable and satellite domains. To enable terrestrial services to compete effectively with the other platforms, DVB-T2 is an essential move. As we saw with the shift to the DVB-S2 standard for satellite services, the extra efficiencies in the use of the spectrum will make the option of delivering HD via DTT viable.”
With DVB-T2 the DVB Project offers broadcasters a means of using that spectrum in the most efficient ways possible using state of the art technology. The first country to deploy DVB-T2 is likely to be the UK, where ASO is already under way. The regulator there, Ofcom,
has stated its intention to convert one nationwide multiplex to DVB-T2 with the first transmissions of multichannel HDTV set to begin at the end of 2009.
Test transmissions began immediately after the approval of the standard in June 2008.
Ends
About DVB-T2
DVB-T2 is a digital terrestrial transmission system developed by the DVB Project. It introduces the latest modulation and coding techniques to enable highly efficient use of valuable terrestrial
spectrum for the delivery of audio, video and data services to fixed, portable and mobile devices.
The DVB-T2 specification was approved by the DVB Steering Board at the end of June 2008. On approval it was released as a DVB BlueBook and sent to ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) for publication as a formal standard.
For more information visit
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/digital/hd_on_dtt/
http://www.dvb.org/technology/fact_sheets/DVB-T2%20Fact%20Sheet.0808.pdf

reslfj

taung wrote: »

DVB-T2 technology seems to be progressing nicely. PACE are currently demonstrating the first DVB-T2 set-top box capable of receiving DVB-T2 HD content.

Source

PACE Press Release

And the first prototypes expected by year end - are on display in silicon - NOW.

The DVB.ORG at IBC 2008 has more info.

"DVB-T2 from ENENSYS Technology, NXP Semiconductors, Pace
ENENSYS, NXP Semiconductors and Pace are demonstrating an end-to-end wireless transmission using DVB-T2 technologies. The demonstration shows how the new DVB-T2 techniques make reception possible in environments where DVB-T services at the same bit-rate would fail."

T2 Guide to IBC2008

"SIDSA Stand 4.C48
SIDSA introduces its reference design of a DVB-T2 chipset that covers both DVB-T2 and DVB-T reception."


"STMicroelectronics, Stand 1.F89,
STMicroelectronics is developing the STV0368 single chip demodulator for the DVB-T2 HD DTT converter box market. The chip will also be able to demodulate DVB-T, as well as DVB-C transmissions for iDTV applications."

Lars

scath

The contract for the the deployment of 4+1 digital TV transmitter systems at 12 high power sites throughout Ireland has been won by Rohde & Schwarz UK along with Spinner, an RF component manufacturer who will supply combiners, feeders and antenna switching frames writes Digital Television Group. According to Eamon Reid of RTÉ NL "Rohde & Schwarz' proposal offered the best solution from many perspectives, including technical quality and power efficiency. Their track record on previous RTÉNL projects and the quality of equipment they have already installed helped secure this contract. RTÉNL is looking forward to working with Rohde & Schwarz over the coming months on what we expect will be another successful deployment," reports the DTG.

http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/news.php?class=countries&subclass=0&id=3139
So Irish DTT is getting going now then eh! I see C6 promoted on TV3 so I guess the Competition Authority must be expected to or already have signed off on the take-over by TV3 of C6 following the BCI approval.

UPC get a product and info channel see:http://www.bci.ie/news_information/press201.html

freeviewhd

http://www.enensys.com/enensys-supply-dvb-t2-modulators-to-arqiva.html

The Cush

freeviewhd wrote: »

http://www.enensys.com/enensys-supply-dvb-t2-modulators-to-arqiva.html

Welcome to the boards with your "first" post.

By the way are you related to our resident "T2 experts" reslfj or mrdtv? or one in the same person perhaps?