The Celtic Tiger

stevoman

Did you prefer Ireland before the Celtic Tiger (when we were Irish), or do you prefer Ireland post Celtic Tiger (when so many goddamn fools think they are part of america's 51st state).

Your views hateful people?

Steve_o

I'd rather be miserable with money, than miserable without....

stevoman

Steve_o wrote: »

I'd rather be miserable with money, than miserable without....

Touché!

funk-you

Put it this way,

My Dad HAD to go to London with a shovel on his back and hated it, himself and people for having to do it. He was despised (ie:no blacks, no Irish) by the people. All Irish people had to do was work and sit in a pub with other hate filled Irish people - Hence the drunken Paddy stereotype.

Skip forward a few years and i was asked to come over to London by a multi-national because i could do the job better than anyone else. I lived in Chiswick in West-London(W4) for over two years, had lots of friends and activities and was well liked and respected in my job.

Rose tinted glasses are a load of arse. Yes there were good things about Ireland pre-celtic tiger but there was a lot more bad.

-Funk

prendy

funk-you wrote: »

Put it this way,

My Dad HAD to go to London with a shovel on his back and hated it, himself and people for having to do it. He was despised (ie:no blacks, no Irish) by the people. All Irish people had to do was work and sit in a pub with other hate filled Irish people - Hence the drunken Paddy stereotype.

Skip forward a few years and i was asked to come over to London by a multi-national because i could do the job better than anyone else. I lived in Chiswick in West-London(W4) for over two years, had lots of friends and activities and was well liked and respected in my job.

Rose tinted glasses are a load of arse. Yes there were good things about Ireland pre-celtic tiger but there was a lot more bad.

-Funk

very good post. agree 100%

RealEstateKing

preferred it Pre-Celtic tiger in some ways, BUT:

(1) We're not a Catholic country anymore, partially due to us having more money, partially due to the scandals, but thank Christ that bull**** isnt mainstream anymore.

(2) Ireland in the old days was the most boring place in the Universe: There was nothing to do apart from drink, and you probably had to nurse a half of Smithwicks for 2 hours cause you'd no cash.

(3) Ireland was ugly in the old days: I look at any random grouping of young women now, and any one of them would easily have been the best looking girl in my school 15 years ago. Same probably goes for the guys, though im no judge.

(4) Affordable Travel: Remember going on holidays in Tralee cause you couldnt afford to go somewhere nice?

(5) Reasonable possibility of an interesting job. Back in the day the Civil Service was the best you could hope for. As for doing anything creative or inspiring, off to t'England with ye.

(6) Cultural diversity: Remember how boring it was when everybody was Irish? I love the fact that half my friends now are from all over, it makes life so much more interesting.

(7) Decent food and decent coffee: Remember what Irish food used to be like? Granted most of it is still white bread dipped in mayyonaise and ketchup, but you can still get other stuff when you want it. Remember when 'Coffee' meant Nescafe?

(8) Foreign women.

(9) Foreign Women.

gollyitsolly

Things in general were worse but people were less selfish and obsessed. Now its all me,me,me,me, I have,I have,I have,..................:(

Loopy

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Things in general were worse but people were less selfish and obsessed. Now its all me,me,me,me, I have,I have,I have,..................:(

I agree. People's attitude's stink now.

stevoman

looptheloop wrote: »

I agree. People's attitude's stink now.

thats why i preferred ireland before the celtic tiger

Dinter

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Things in general were worse but people were less selfish and obsessed. Now its all me,me,me,me, I have,I have,I have,..................:(

I dunno. I reckon most people have always been selfish and self obsessed it's just now they've the cash to flaunt it.

Also anyone who grew up in a time where their house might have only one tv or their parents couldn't afford a second car or you wore clothes till they fell off you is definitely going to buy the things they thought they'd missed out on when they were young.

Remember a large proportion of pre Celtic Tiger families would be considered poor by todays standards.

I don't think that's necessarily selfish.

stevoman

Dinter wrote: »

I dunno. I reckon most people have always been selfish and self obsessed it's just now they've the cash to flaunt it.

Also anyone who grew up in a time where their house might have only one tv or their parents couldn't afford a second car or you wore clothes till they fell off you is definitely going to buy the things they thought they'd missed out on when they were young.

Remember a large proportion of pre Celtic Tiger families would be considered poor by todays standards.

I don't think that's necessarily selfish.

nah, i think cash really is the root of all evil. we had a fine balnce of cash before the celtic tiger. yeah people struggled but it wasnt all that bad. at least we didnt have stupid women driving around in jeeps with no bloody towbars. what the hell is with that?

funk-you

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Things in general were worse but people were less selfish and obsessed. Now its all me,me,me,me, I have,I have,I have,..................:(

As opposed to not having any hopes, constantly watched in case you stepped out of line with regards to marriages and aspirations etc, getting clipped round the ear by the local priest for playing marbles in the street and then being clipped round the ear by your dad for embarrassing him by getting clipped round the ear.

Also being forced into 'knowing your place' while one son became a priest, the other a school-teacher. Women not being allowed work as soon as you had a kid and women in general were either nurses, nuns or secretaries?

No thanks.

-Funk

stevoman

funk-you wrote: »

As opposed to not having any hopes, constantly watched in case you stepped out of line with regards to marriages and aspirations etc, getting clipped round the ear by the local priest for playing marbles in the street and then being clipped round the ear by your dad for embarrassing him by getting clipped round the ear.

Also being forced into 'knowing your place' while one son became a priest, the other a school-teacher. Women not being allowed work as soon as you had a kid and women in general were either nurses, nuns or secretaries?

No thanks.

-Funk

wer talking pre celtic tiger not pre pre pre celtic tiger.

late eighties to early ninety's as opposed to ninteen dickity four

Sherifu

Nostalgia. Pre for me.

funk-you

stevoman wrote: »

wer talking pre celtic tiger not pre pre pre celtic tiger.

late eighties to early ninety's as opposed to ninteen dickity four

This was going on mostly up until the 80's and beyond in some parts. People need to stop looking at the commitments thinking 'sure things back then were great'. Most of us have cushy lives now full of opportunity if you want it.

Life was a much tougher thing pre-celtic tiger. It's like remembering all your summers were sunny as a kid. Great memory but the fact was a lot different.

-Funk

stevoman

funk-you wrote: »

This was going on mostly up until the 80's and beyond in some parts. People need to stop looking at the commitments thinking 'sure things back then were great'. Most of us have cushy lives now full of opportunity if you want it.

Life was a much tougher thing pre-celtic tiger. It's like remembering all your summers were sunny as a kid. Great memory but the fact was a lot different.

-Funk

walking by the river though yesterday with the dog and remember how all of us as kids spent our summers sitting on our backisde in it and out playing football and actually enjoying life.

Not a kid around now, all sitting at home playing there expensive toys and being pampered with the best of everything.

is the celtic tiger generation really going to add anything positive ot ireland?????

stovelid

funk-you wrote: »

My Dad HAD to go to London with a shovel on his back

Couldn't they have let him stow it in the luggage? British cnuts.

ambro25

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Things in general were worse but people were less selfish and obsessed. Now its all me,me,me,me, I have,I have,I have,..................:(

You are aware that there is an inversely proportional cause and effect, aren't you? People with less, have less reasons to be selfish and obsessed - and reciprocally! Not different from anywhere, I'm afraid - the world is replete with countries large and small that have done the Nouveau Riche thing

topper75

So let's see - today - we have money, jobs and ......

.... damn all else really.

We have completely lost who we are. We sold out.

The Tiger has brought on some aspects of Irish society but what good are riches when you can't have the craic with your neighbour. Instead of having the craic, we are all in some sort endless material acquisition competition. Pre-tiger all the way for me. We are not Germans. We are not Americans. We are not Brits. We are Irish and long may that be the case. I don't think it is too late though thankfully to stop the consumerist juggernaut. I see hope.

scruff321

theres pro's and con's as mentioned above :rolleyes: but mostly pro's

the whole d4 d/ckhead buzz.people up there own **** strike me as the only thing bad atm!

funk-you

topper75 wrote: »

So let's see - today - we have money, jobs and ......

.... damn all else really.

We have completely lost who we are. We sold out.

The Tiger has brought on some aspects of Irish society but what good are riches when you can't have the craic with your neighbour.

Do you make the effort? Maybe you might have had more free time too to talk to your neighbour when you were unemployed and had to borrow, beg and steal for your family.

EDIT: BTW, who were/are we? The culture is still there but cultures evolve. If they didn't we'd still be living in caves.

topper75 wrote: »

Instead of having the craic, we are all in some sort endless material acquisition competition. Pre-tiger all the way for me. We are not Germans. We are not Americans. We are not Brits. We are Irish and long may that be the case. I don't think it is too late though thankfully to stop the consumerist juggernaut. I see hope.

People keep talking about this but people bought the best they could afford and showed it off to anyone who'd listen pre-celic tiger too. You just have more now so can buy more. Nothing has changed.

-Funk

gazzer

I grew up as a child of the 70's and a teenager of the 80's living in a council flat estate where at one point in time there was 80% unemployment. Luckily my father has worked since he was 14 so even though we had no money for holidays or trips away there was always food on the table and my mother was always in the house when we were home from school. There was a great community spirit, we all looked out for one another. If you were caught by a neighbour doing something you shouldnt you would be guaranteed that your parents would find out and there would be hell to pay.

We spent our evenings and all day in the summer playing relieve-e-o or Rounders or Paths or Marbles or football etc. We had summer projects where the adults would voulunteer to help out at the discos, trips to Clara Lara or Butlins. My dad manged 2 soccer teams for the local kids. My mother helped out at the summer projects and also other community events.

Our school was 2 miles away and everybody I knew either cycled or walked.

We had no telephone, I shared a bedroom with 3 brothers, We had one tv in the sitting room (and a Spectrum for playing games)We had no car (parents still dont drive). I lived in that flat till I was 20 (started a job and moved in with some workmates) but I loved living there.

Fast forward to me now as a 36 year old who has been promted 3 times and I earn a relatively ok wage (44K) I am in the process of selling my first home and moving to the countryside for a bit of piece of quiet. I have travelled all over the world and have had some great experiences. However a big part of me prefers the way things were when I lived in that flat. Maybe it is just nostalgia but I look at my friends now who commute long distances and have to put their kids in creches from 8am till 6pm. They are WRECKED when they get home and at weekends. No family support around them as they live miles from their parents, siblings.

I dont see kids out playing marbles or soccer or anything for that matter. They all seem to be inside playing playstation games. Kids for the most part dont walk or cycle to school, they get driven there by their parents. A lot of people dont even know their neighbours. I suppose in a perfect world I would love to have the community spirit of the 80's mixed with the financial rewards of the celtic tiger.

connundrum

As discussed here last month.

I prefer the time prior to the 'peak' of the celtic tiger period. Back in 2001 or 2002 it was cool as there was a bit of a buzz around the place and people were generally still in good moods. House prices were affordable and people were doing well enough.

MooseJam

RealEstateKing wrote: »

(3) Ireland was ugly in the old days: I look at any random grouping of young women now, and any one of them would easily have been the best looking girl in my school 15 years ago. Same probably goes for the guys, though im no judge.

Dude a little bit of money doesn't suddenly make everyone pretty, there's no difference between 15 years ago and now with regard to how good looking we all are

funk-you

gazzer wrote: »

I suppose in a perfect world I would love to have the community spirit of the 80's mixed with the financial rewards of the celtic tiger.

+1 Although the community spirit is still there in a lot of places. I know lots of people who volunteer and i get on great with my neighbours and i'm a product of the CT at 25.

-Funk

Radharc na Sleibhte

I saw a polish hottie today with the sexiest midriff you've ever seen in the flesh.
So, to sum up, post tiger for me.

gollyitsolly

funk-you wrote: »

As opposed to not having any hopes, constantly watched in case you stepped out of line with regards to marriages and aspirations etc, getting clipped round the ear by the local priest for playing marbles in the street and then being clipped round the ear by your dad for embarrassing him by getting clipped round the ear.

Also being forced into 'knowing your place' while one son became a priest, the other a school-teacher. Women not being allowed work as soon as you had a kid and women in general were either nurses, nuns or secretaries?

No thanks.

-Funk

Jees, you must have had a miserable childhood?

funk-you

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Jees, you must have had a miserable childhood?

Nah, loved it and wouldn't change a thing but people and the world need to move on. It just erks me when everyone put on their rose tinted glasses and don't count themselves lucky for everything the have.

Try to leave the world just that one bit better than when you arrived.

-Funk

RealEstateKing

Dude a little bit of money doesn't suddenly make everyone pretty, there's no difference between 15 years ago and now with regard to how good looking we all are

Genetically, of course, your right. But a little money does go a long way towards getting a nice haircut, some nice clothes, joining a gym, eating good food and all that. If your as old as me, just pick up your Secondary School photo and you'll see what I mean.

Anyone who was there in the 80's knows what Im talking about. I still remember when the Spanish Students used to arrive at the beginning of the Summer and it was like: "Oh thank God, Women!"

stevoman

RealEstateKing wrote: »

Genetically, of course, your right. But a little money does go a long way towards getting a nice haircut, some nice clothes, joining a gym, eating good food and all that. If your as old as me, just pick up your Secondary School photo and you'll see what I mean.

maybe your just a paedo and you dont know it yet?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

tbh the 15 year old girls of today look a lot more interesting than the 15 year old girls we had when i was 15.

wish i'd been born in '93

RealEstateKing

maybe your just a paedo and you dont know it yet?

um, well that was unneccessary.

stevoman

Mordances with the proletariat wrote: »

tbh the 15 year old girls of today look a lot more interesting than the 15 year old girls we had when i was 15.

wish i'd been born in '93

LOL, please see above post!

Kev_ps3

Some people here talk as if pre celtic tiger Ireland there was 100% unemployment and no one had money. Thats BS. It is perdicted we will have 7% unemplyment next year and alot of irish society are still poor. Lets not blow things up too much. I voted for pre, we sold our souls for a few euro.

topper75

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

we sold our souls for a few euro.

Now you said it. If we had held the punt, things could have been so much better. The euro interest rate was ludicrous for us for so many years when prices of property were rocketing through spectulation (easy to get cheap credit) and we had no control, we had given it to Europe. We needed higher rates to calm it down.

Now we could do with a cut to keep things stimulated - and again we have no control - it's kept up for the sake of DE and FR economies. Hence the property market (and general consumer confidence) has flattened.

And even on a simple level, the coins and notes are awful and unworkable even though we have had the better part of a decade to adjust to it.

For me the Euro is the ultimate horrible symbol of the difference between the pre and post tiger experiences.

SimpleSam06

topper75 wrote: »

The euro interest rate was ludicrous for us for so many years when prices of property were rocketing through spectulation (easy to get cheap credit) and we had no control, we had given it to Europe. We needed higher rates to calm it down.

Do you think the shower of circle jerkers in power at the moment would have done whats best for the country, or what the developers in the tent at the Galway races paid them to do?

johnnyskeleton

looptheloop wrote: »

I agree. People's attitude's stink now.

Who are these people? You? You're mates? Your family?

It seems to me that none of my friends and family have had any significant change of attitude due to the celtic tiger. Maybe that's just because we have lives outside our jobs.

johnnyskeleton

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Some people here talk as if pre celtic tiger Ireland there was 100% unemployment and no one had money. Thats BS. It is perdicted we will have 7% unemplyment next year and alot of irish society are still poor. Lets not blow things up too much. I voted for pre, we sold our souls for a few euro.

Tell me more about how you sold your soul? Or is this just a generic statement that you look at people and because they have flash cars, nice homes and good clothes you assume they have less soul than, for instance, a homeless man in rags who drives a lada.

If that's really the case, the Travelling Community is the last bastion of Soul and purity in this otherwise degenerate and insincere generation. Isn't that so?

Kernel32

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Some people here talk as if pre celtic tiger Ireland there was 100% unemployment and no one had money. Thats BS. It is perdicted we will have 7% unemplyment next year and alot of irish society are still poor. Lets not blow things up too much. I voted for pre, we sold our souls for a few euro.

It's true there wasn't 100% umemployment but for anyone who grew up in the 70's and 80's with unemployment, which is a lot of people, know what it feels like. That's when I grew up. My dad got laid off multiple times and was unemployed a lot. I went to 5 different schools by the time I was 10 years old as we moved around to find work. My career advisor in school, of which I had one session advised me to move to England when I left school as I had family there who had previously emigrated. Over the years all of my parents family had emigrated due to lack of employment. Yeah there were fun times and a lot of time spent outdoors, but then there were the times spent pretending not to be home when the local money lender was at the door or watching my mother cry when the St. Vincent de Paul do gooders were at the door. I ended up leaving Ireland but with the Celtic tiger my brothers were able to stay. Neither went to college but both have done and continue to do well due to the boom that happened in Ireland. It's post celtic tiger for me all the way.

OPENROAD

stevoman wrote: »

Did you prefer Ireland before the Celtic Tiger (when we were Irish)

Am I not Irish anymore

topper75

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Do you think the shower of circle jerkers in power at the moment would have done whats best for the country, or what the developers in the tent at the Galway races paid them to do?

circle jerkers never controlled the rate - Irish central bank used to be independent.

Tent is gone now anyway thank God.

Blisterman

stevoman wrote: »

Did you prefer Ireland before the Celtic Tiger (when we were Irish), or do you prefer Ireland post Celtic Tiger (when so many goddamn fools think they are part of america's 51st state).

That's a fair and balanced poll alright :rolleyes:

gixerfixer

Pre celtic tiger.Difference is when you where out of work years ago people would try and help you out,now they look down on you and call you lazy:(

SimpleSam06

topper75 wrote: »

circle jerkers never controlled the rate - Irish central bank used to be independent.

It doesn't matter what the rate was, being my point. They would have found a way to duff it up regardless. We had eight years of the greatest financial boom in history, and what do we have to show for it? A world class rail and road system? First world telecomms? Flourishing local industries?

No, we have ghost estates, many facing a choice between financial ruin over their gigantic mortgages or being stuck in a two bed shoebox for decades, eight billion in the hole this year, undrinkable water in a major city, and Bertie hiding his huge pay rise by threatening to knock the drivers off the road, while we labour under a huge and inefficient public service we can't get rid of built up by said individual for the next twenty or thirty years.

Hope you like paying taxes.

topper75 wrote: »

Tent is gone now anyway thank God.

Its a disgrace that it was ever allowed.

Terry

stevoman wrote: »

walking by the river though yesterday with the dog and remember how all of us as kids spent our summers sitting on our backisde in it and out playing football and actually enjoying life.

Not a kid around now, all sitting at home playing there expensive toys and being pampered with the best of everything.

is the celtic tiger generation really going to add anything positive ot ireland?????

Great factory workers with their superior hand / eye co-ordination.

scruff321 wrote: »

theres pro's and con's as mentioned above :rolleyes: but mostly pro's

the whole d4 d/ckhead buzz.people up there own **** strike me as the only thing bad atm!

They have always been around.

MooseJam wrote: »

Dude a little bit of money doesn't suddenly make everyone pretty, there's no difference between 15 years ago and now with regard to how good looking we all are

I don't know.
Some of those 16.17 year olds knocking around today put the gilrs from my year to shame.
Give them a few years though and they'll be wrinkled from too much sun and fat from too much rich food.

gazzer wrote:

I grew up as a child of the 70's and a teenager of the 80's living in a council flat estate where at one point in time there was 80% unemployment. Luckily my father has worked since he was 14 so even though we had no money for holidays or trips away there was always food on the table and my mother was always in the house when we were home from school. There was a great community spirit, we all looked out for one another. If you were caught by a neighbour doing something you shouldnt you would be guaranteed that your parents would find out and there would be hell to pay.

I count myself lucky to still live in such a place.

The kids on my estate still play football on the green and generally don't spend their days glued to the tv.

Our school was 2 miles away and everybody I knew either cycled or walked.

Mine was just under a mile and we walked whether it was sunny or raining or snowing.

I dont see kids out playing marbles or soccer or anything for that matter. They all seem to be inside playing playstation games. Kids for the most part dont walk or cycle to school, they get driven there by their parents. A lot of people dont even know their neighbours. I suppose in a perfect world I would love to have the community spirit of the 80's mixed with the financial rewards of the celtic tiger.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on it.

I'm gald we had the boom. Ireland is generally a better place for it.

Ok, some things have changed, but overall we're still a bunch of whining bitches who prefer to whine than do anything constructive to change the status quo.

kwestfan08

I'd say post celtic tiger although I have no basis for comparission.