New Tyres Slipping

jayok

So the thread wear indicators were up and it was time to replace the tyres which I got done yesterday. Put on the same brand and and type I took off but for some reason it seems that I seem to have a bit of wheel spin on these new tyres. Nothing excessive, but the traction control keeps kicking in. I'm driving the same way on as I did before.

So the question, do new tyres need to "wear-in" as it is, before the actually start to stick?

The tyres are Michelin Pilot Sports soft compound, I replaced all four and got the tracking done while I was at.

peasant

jayok wrote: »

So the question, do new tyres need to "wear-in" as it is, before the actually start to stick?

Yes !

You will see that the thread surface is very smooth, almost shiney sometimes.

Give it a few miles to roughen up before you apply full welly and allow for slightly longer breaking distances as well.

jayok

Ok, I'll tread softy then

Thanks!

Neilw

Yes take it easy for the first couple of hundred miles, tyres need to be scrubbed in before they grip properly.
The rears will be the slowest to scrub in so take it easy on wet roundabouts

Neil.

Del2005

Are they directional tyres? If so make sure they are on the correct way, otherwise use a lighter right foot!

il gatto

When tyres are made, the mould is sprayed with a release compound. It's basically a lubricant so the molten rubber doesn't bond to the mould. All new tyres will have a residue of this oily crap on it, so let them scrub in for a hundred miles give or take. It's a far bigger issue on bikes for the obvious reason that lean+slippy tyres= wham, road sandwich.:eek:

tossy

i would check that the are fitted the right way if directional,ive just fitted 4 new tyres and any road tyre worth its wieght should be 100% from the off! i think some posters above have been watching F1 a little too much.

jayok

Del2005 wrote: »

Are they directional tyres? If so make sure they are on the correct way, otherwise use a lighter right foot!

Yep, they are directional and they are on the right way (the arrow is going the right way). I think I'll give it a few miles for them to "scrub up", the do seem to be getting better.

BTW its not that I am flooring the car at every opportunity, its an Automatic and as such when you want to turn right across two lanes of traffic, you want to do as quickly as possible (within reason). With automatics you end up waiting for the wind-up compare to a manual so you push it a bit harder to get going quicker (if you know what I mean) - this is where I'm getting the wheel spin.

Ferris

tossy wrote: »

i would check that the are fitted the right way if directional,ive just fitted 4 new tyres and any road tyre worth its wieght should be 100% from the off! i think some posters above have been watching F1 a little too much.

It does take a little time to rough up new tyres, happened with the Goodyear Eagle F1's that I put on the car a couple of months back, and these are hardly a budget tyre.

A friend of mine crashed his mini a few years back after putting new tyres (yokohama) on the back wheels that day. I was driving behind him at the time, it was wet and the car just oversteered and then he spun.

il gatto

jayok wrote: »

Yep, they are directional and they are on the right way (the arrow is going the right way). I think I'll give it a few miles for them to "scrub up", the do seem to be getting better.

BTW its not that I am flooring the car at every opportunity, its an Automatic and as such when you want to turn right across two lanes of traffic, you want to do as quickly as possible (within reason). With automatics you end up waiting for the wind-up compare to a manual so you push it a bit harder to get going quicker (if you know what I mean) - this is where I'm getting the wheel spin.

Spin up? Tale your foot off the gas, give it a half second to change down and then floor it. Instant response. Bear with the tyres . They are never good at first.

jayok

il gatto wrote: »

Spin up? Tale your foot off the gas, give it a half second to change down and then floor it. Instant response. Bear with the tyres . They are never good at first.

It's not even dropping a gear - this is from standstill. When you want to go it takes a fraction of a section to get going compare to a stick shift where you can "hold " it on the clutch. Maybe it's just me

Del2005

jayok wrote: »

It's not even dropping a gear - this is from standstill. When you want to go it takes a fraction of a section to get going compare to a stick shift where you can "hold " it on the clutch. Maybe it's just me

If you need to move off quickly hold it with your left foot on the break and right giving a bit of gas, you'll move off fast but will spin a bit till traction control kicks in.

Must be tyres need scrubbing in, can you fully turn off traction control and do a few burn outs?:D:D

Esel

tossy wrote: »

..any road tyre worth its wieght should be 100% from the off!

This is not the case though. While you may not be aware of it, or may not have been made aware of it by the tyre fitter, it is still a fact.

SouperComputer

tossy wrote: »

i would check that the are fitted the right way if directional,ive just fitted 4 new tyres and any road tyre worth its wieght should be 100% from the off!

Well they are never going to be "100%" from the off. Different cars have different wheel/suspension geometries and drive on different surfaces. As a result they "work" their tyres differently. Tyres are made prettymuch "square", however during driving they do not work in that fashion, suspension geometry, sidewall/treadblock deformation and the temperature that they are working at varies.

So you buy your "square" tyres and drive them for 200miles to remove the releasing gel and bed them in to your car's suspension setup.

As somebody else said, new tyres can be leathal in the wet, be very careful with them until they have bedded in.

stratos

Sorry driving years never heard of tyres needing bedding or scrubbing. It's not formula one. the manufacturing lubricant is washed off before the tyres are sold. your problem is not that the tyres need bedding ???

tossy

My last 4 sets of tyres were F1 GSD3's (i always change all 4 tyres at the same time) these have always been 100% from the word go as i would expect.Ive just recently as in the last week changed to F1 asymmetrics and these too were 100% from the off as i have come to expect from a quality tyre manufacturer.

Are you seriously saying that i should buy 4 high performance tyres for a 200+ BHP car and should be prepared to put up with a budget tyre driving exp while the bed in? lets hope i don't hit standing water at 120 kmph on the motorway for the first few weeks eh?

Seriously lads its not F1,these are road gonig tyres and are designed to be at there optimum from day one.

il gatto

The release compound is an silicone oil based substance and doesn't wash off. I've worked in a couple of garage stores and I always had to wash my hands of the greasy film after putting the stock order tyres in the store.

http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=8092004155045&lang=EN

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/site/articleIDs/354D6DA080266FCDCA2572CE00251560?open&template=domWheels&fullarticle=yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8eftil7XYg Most obvious effect

SouperComputer

Dont take it from me folks, talk to any tyre engineer worth their salt. By engineer I don't mean some random tyre fitter/mechanic (no offence intended), I mean an engineer who understands, in detail, the physics and dynamics of a vehicle and its tyres. Road or racetrack the same rules apply, Just to a lesser or greater degree. Both have toe, camber, castor, KPI angles, contact patches, side wall sizes and stiffnesses, and pressures setup depending on the manufactuers choice.

lets hope i don't hit standing water at 120 kmph on the motorway for the first few weeks eh

It's somthing I would hope regardless of the tyres you have. Standing water is more to do with tread depth and pattern. Damp, greasy conditions that are where you will see the biggest issue with newer/green tyres theres an area of crossover of course, but for the most part, tyres with an appropiate tread pattern and depth. The ideal situation is a tyre that has been bedded in so that it makes the best use of the cars geometry while having good tread depth and pattern.

are you seriously saying that i should buy 4 high performance tyres for a 200+ BHP car and should be prepared to put up with a budget tyre driving exp while the bed in?

Why not? You would bed in a new engine and new brakes in, I hope! Or are they 100% from the get-go too? :d Who said budget tyre peformance? What is "budget tyre peformance" anyway? These are all subjective things, a matter of opinion, not fact. Tyre peformance is a matter of fact. Aside from this, Eagle F1's have to be one of the most over-hyped, overbranded tyres around.

Obviously you feel that the peformance of your tyres is adequate from the time you leave the garage with them, and thats fine. But you're fooling yourself if you think they are 100%

Seriously lads its not F1

You're right, in F1 you could have the tyres mostly scrubbed in, in 8-12 miles, depending on the geometry, compound and track.

these are road gonig tyres and are designed to be at there optimum from day one.

You would think if it was feasable and beneficial, racing tyres would be designed like this too no? But its not, becuase most cars have their own geometry and setup, which the tyres have to conform/comply to.

Id like to know what you think is done in the design process to make road tyres optimum from mile 0? Bearing in mind whats been posted above, its not possible that that tyres will be at their optimum from day 1. Especially in dry conditions due to tread block deformation. IE dry conditions, most tyres are at their optimum when they are near the end of their life. This is becuase with short treadblocks the compliance is better and the blocks dont flex\deform as much under force. More compliance=more traction.

Due to the different setups of cars the design of the tyre HAS to be a compromise. Certain tyres will suit some cars better than others but it is always a compromise until they had time to bed in.

sratos wrote:

Sorry driving years never heard of tyres needing bedding or scrubbing. It's not formula one. the manufacturing lubricant is washed off before the tyres are sold. your problem is not that the tyres need bedding ???

I dont know how much you have closely examined your new tyres, but its pretty clear that residue/smooth surface remains on the top of the blocks for some time. This is part of the problem, especially in wet conditions. Ever hit a painted line at the wrong time when the road is wet? Same issue, not as dramatic but the same thing is happening.


I mean honestly lads, are you trying to say that bedding in of tyres on a road car is a myth/conspiricy? :boggles:



Anyway, back to the task at hand. @ jayok, what car do you have and also, do the tyres "slip" in both dry and wet conditions? How many miles have you covered so far? Ae you sure the pressures are correct (might be best you check them yourself!)

tossy

Great reply souper i will conceed that and i wont or cant argue with most of it,i will stand buy everytihng ive said above but qualify it by saying this - ok maybe my tyres werent 100% from off but the were certainly adequate,which is good enough for me.(ive never exp anytihng like severe wheel spin or lack of good stopping power)

Which eagle F1s are you saying are over rated? GsD3s? asymmetrics? ive had 4sets of GSD3s and couldnt fault them at all apart form excessive road noise,i havent had the asymmetrics long enough to form a final opinion but early signs are positive.

Ive done budget tyre performance and i swore afterwards i would never penny pinch on tyres again,and the F1s have on at least one occassion saved me from a serious car repair bill.

Ferris

I have eagle F1's too and am happy with them. Didn't cast the earth too @130quid a corner. They make a huge difference to the handling of my car, a front heavy understeery diesel golf.

+1 on the uselessness of budget tyres, they're budget for a reason, less research means less grip.