Defending against pace?

crisco10

Hey folks,

Got a tactical question for all you budding coaches!
I have this epic grudge match of 5 v 5 tipper coming up, only problem is the other team have this ridiculously quick guy who is quick enough to literally run around the defence if we come up in a flat line.

So question is, how to stop him? (being tipper, we cant just "slipper" him!)

I was thinkin a a mad dog kind of defence where the outer most man comes out of the line to stop him running laterally and around the defence..would this work?

If anybody thinks im overthinking this, they are right! but this is the grudge of all grudges. if we lost this game just cos of yer mans pace, i would be raging!!!

Cheers lads,

crisco10:D

Amazotheamazing

The best way is to make sure he can't get the ball. Obvious really.

I wouldn't work a flat line defence, I'd have your fastest player cover in a fullback position, that way even if the other guy is faster, the fullback guy will have less to run if the fast guy breaks through.

What's his pace like? Is he fast over 10, 20 or 50ms? Or is he fastest over all three? If he takes time to get going, you have to ensure you always have someone marking him before he can get up speed, if you can stop often enough, you'll drag the other team out of position as they try and put him in space.

Tim Robbins

crisco10 wrote: »

Hey folks,

Got a tactical question for all you budding coaches!
I have this epic grudge match of 5 v 5 tipper coming up, only problem is the other team have this ridiculously quick guy who is quick enough to literally run around the defence if we come up in a flat line.

So question is, how to stop him? (being tipper, we cant just "slipper" him!)

I was thinkin a a mad dog kind of defence where the outer most man comes out of the line to stop him running laterally and around the defence..would this work?

If anybody thinks im overthinking this, they are right! but this is the grudge of all grudges. if we lost this game just cos of yer mans pace, i would be raging!!!

Cheers lads,

crisco10:D

Good man, good question. Rugby is about using the head.

If you keep your defensive line it should nullify his pace unless you are playing in a very wide pitch. Forget about a rush defense as usually that is the hardest one to keep the defensive line. Can this guy side step? If not could you drift out and put your fastest player as a covering full back?

Failing that, use a normal defensive line and put your fastest player marking him.

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Good man, good question. Rugby is about using the head.

If you keep your defensive line it should nullify his pace unless you are playing in a very wide pitch. Forget about a rush defense as usually that is the hardest one to keep the defensive line. Can this guy side step? If not could you drift out and put your fastest player as a covering full back?

Failing that, use a normal defensive line and put your fastest player marking him.

Remember to use the touch lines as defenders as well. Keep him on the outside, and push him down there.

crisco10

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The best way is to make sure he can't get the ball. Obvious really.


What's his pace like? Is he fast over 10, 20 or 50ms? Or is he fastest over all three? .

Hard to keep the ball away from him in 5-a-side tipper tho.

He is prob quickest over the first 10 - 20m, its that burst that kills oppo defenses. Even in tipper, he is gone before u can get your two arms up. his top end speed isnt too shabby either tho!

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Good man, good question. Rugby is about using the head.

If you keep your defensive line it should nullify his pace unless you are playing in a very wide pitch. Forget about a rush defense as usually that is the hardest one to keep the defensive line. Can this guy side step? If not could you drift out and put your fastest player as a covering full back?

Failing that, use a normal defensive line and put your fastest player marking him.

Yeah, last time we played it was a wide pitch and he ran amok by just running straight across and jinking (that answers ur question, his side-step isnt earth shattering but he is quite a jinky runner!) away from the tips. Eventually, defenders just run out and he runs around the outside. Incredibly annoying really.

The fulllback idea may work, I would just be concerned of communication issues in only a 5-a-side game over who is covering fullback. It would be a good method tho...

Loving the ideas tho lads..thanks. At the risk of sounding boring, I really love these type of conversations!

Amazotheamazing

You could always do what Scotland did against the AB's and narrow the pitch? Or pick a pitch that suits your team better.

What are your teams strengths?

crisco10

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

You could always do what Scotland did against the AB's and narrow the pitch? Or pick a pitch that suits your team better.

What are your teams strengths?

Dont worry, was planning on picking a nice tight pitch, reduce the space!

My team would have lads who are better at creating space but wouldn't have electric pace to back it up but we still score a fair few tries. In defence, we are solid across the board, but maybe a bit sluggish sometimes.

The opposition are almost the exact opposite, not as good at creating space but are very quick so don't need as much space!

All this talk is getting me very excited about the game!!

Tim Robbins

crisco10 wrote: »

Dont worry, was planning on picking a nice tight pitch, reduce the space!

My team would have lads who are better at creating space but wouldn't have electric pace to back it up but we still score a fair few tries. In defence, we are solid across the board, but maybe a bit sluggish sometimes.

The opposition are almost the exact opposite, not as good at creating space but are very quick so don't need as much space!

All this talk is getting me very excited about the game!!

If you are using full back, you usually nominate the player to play full back and he tracks the ball as it move left to right or right to left.

Come on, he can't be that fast? If you dive you'll be able to tip him surely?

RuggieBear

.....and you definitely can't shoe him...?:D

dub_skav

5 V 5, I'm assuming there's no ref. Just have his man be constantly offside and tip him man and ball.
Well that's what I'd do

shoutman

5 v 5 I think a full back type idea should really be out of the question, it will leave your front line being 4 v 5 and with any sort of width in the pitch a simple skip pass should allow for a two on one.

The best thing to do in my opinion is what you were considering. Basically a flanking move. Just allow your centre three to sit back while the two wide men move forward. Belverdere College did this in 05' in an effort to neutralize Luke Fitzgerald and it worked a treat. Get the three lads in the middle to play zonal, as the opposition might try quick tight switchs to try and get past.

Good luck

Amazotheamazing

shoutman wrote: »

5 v 5 I think a full back type idea should really be out of the question, it will leave your front line being 4 v 5 and with any sort of width in the pitch a simple skip pass should allow for a two on one.

The best thing to do in my opinion is what you were considering. Basically a flanking move. Just allow your centre three to sit back while the two wide men move forward. Belverdere College did this in 05' in an effort to neutralize Luke Fitzgerald and it worked a treat. Get the three lads in the middle to play zonal, as the opposition might try quick tight switchs to try and get past.

Good luck

A fast fullback would nullify the overlap though, no?

Very easy to drift offside with the above suggestion.

Tim Robbins

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

A fast fullback would nullify the overlap though, no?

Very easy to drift offside with the above suggestion.

Agree if it is 5 v 5 full back would could leave too much space. It depends on how fast they can pass the ball to the outside.

I'd go from shoutman, sounds good.

shoutman

I just dont see the advantage of having a fullback, generally in the 15 man game the full back is there to defend against a kick, obviously there is no kicking in tip rugby so whats the point? I know what you are saying is that you can have your full back running left and right behind your four man defense making the overlap on either side but I still don't think that it will be that effective. At the end of the day not matter how fast this guy is there are going to be other threats on the team i would imagine.

And any sort of discipline will mean that it wont be easy to drift offside the two wide men just have to work a bit more and they can always be rotated.

Stev_o

Hold up is this player simply running across the pitch ie parallel to your line? Or is he just going through gaps?

crisco10

Stev_o wrote: »

Hold up is this player simply running across the pitch ie parallel to your line? Or is he just going through gaps?

More the latter! but he threatens the outside burst wit lateral running then the he dives through the hole...

I must say i prefer the 3 + 2 idea. fullback outta the line doesnt sit too well wit me...

Stev_o

crisco10 wrote: »

More the latter! but he threatens the outside burst wit lateral running then the he dives through the hole...

I must say i prefer the 3 + 2 idea. fullback outta the line doesnt sit too well wit me...

But then you the other 4 guys can exploit it and get some fairly easy 2 on 1's going. You could try rush him each time it goes wide to him and stop him before he starts.

shoutman

When you are going with the wide men pushing up its still gonna be pushing up on the widest of there men, its not gonna leave four on three in the middle.

crisco10

shoutman wrote: »

When you are going with the wide men pushing up its still gonna be pushing up on the widest of there men, its not gonna leave four on three in the middle.

As in, there would still be gaps for him to exploit in the middle of the pitch? If thats what you mean, I would be less worried about that because kinda by definition, the space is at a premium there..and there is more chance of a lazy defender being in the middle than leaving a gap outwide...

Junior

RuggieBear wrote: »

.....and you definitely can't shoe him...?:D

+1

I reckon shoutman's idea sounds like the best, either that or an accidental dead leg :eek:

[Jackass]

Drift defence all the way...and have your furthest man drift all the way to the byline to force him back infield towards your covering players.

Good luck!!

Leon11

leave your widest man 5 yards off the line at all times, that way if it's thrown wide he can hit him head on and if the guy goes throw the line he may be in a position to cover if he goes through a gap!

Crash

Who's the fittest man (running wise) on the team? if you can designate someone who can deal with having to drop back on the ball changing teams, and is fit enough to drift back enough to cover every time, losing a man in the defensive line shouldnt make TOO much of a difference depending on the picthc, depending on whether this guy generally ends up being a solo runner or if the other lads on his team support him properly.

crisco10

crash_000 wrote: »

Who's the fittest man (running wise) on the team? if you can designate someone who can deal with having to drop back on the ball changing teams, and is fit enough to drift back enough to cover every time, losing a man in the defensive line shouldnt make TOO much of a difference depending on the picthc, depending on whether this guy generally ends up being a solo runner or if the other lads on his team support him properly.

I would probably be the fittest and play fullback in the 15 a side version so if there were to be a fullback that would probably be me.
This guy generally ends up as a solo runner with average support...

I just like the idea of the wide man stepping up because that will stop him before he gets going a lot of the time where as a fullback idea slightly relies on a straight sprint between me (as fullback) and him. I probably would get to him about 70% of the time even with the headstart but I just don't like the risk...

shoutman

I honestly do not see how anyone could advocate a sweeper role for a game of tip rugby. Generally man on man or zonal works, and unless the pitch is very wide 5 v 5 should not allow too many gaps in the centre of the pitch.

If the opposition decide to get it as wide as possible and spread out meaning there might be gaps left in your defence, it also means that there is an increasing possibility of interceptions which equal easy tries in tip rugby.

Are you playing unlimited tips or 5 tips and its a turnover? Do you roll the ball back between your legs when you are tipped?

crisco10

shoutman wrote: »

I honestly do not see how anyone could advocate a sweeper role for a game of tip rugby. Generally man on man or zonal works, and unless the pitch is very wide 5 v 5 should not allow too many gaps in the centre of the pitch.

If the opposition decide to get it as wide as possible and spread out meaning there might be gaps left in your defence, it also means that there is an increasing possibility of interceptions which equal easy tries in tip rugby.

Are you playing unlimited tips or 5 tips and its a turnover? Do you roll the ball back between your legs when you are tipped?

5 tips then turnover. kick allowed on last tip...and no rolling between legs, has to be tipped off foot(i hate that, slows the game). actually that may make it easier to defend cos it slows the ball down..

Tim Robbins

crisco10 wrote: »

5 tips then turnover. kick allowed on last tip...and no rolling between legs, has to be tipped off foot(i hate that, slows the game). actually that may make it easier to defend cos it slows the ball down..

Where's this game on? Is it on Setanta?

crisco10

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Where's this game on? Is it on Setanta?

nah, surprisingly they won't show a game that kicks off at 10am in a local park....:D:D:D

dub_skav

crisco10 wrote: »

nah, surprisingly they won't show a game that kicks off at 10am in a local park....:D:D:D

10AM? Just get him drunk the night before

crisco10

dub_skav wrote: »

10AM? Just get him drunk the night before

well mightnt be that early! anyways i dont have the money to be getting him drunk! haha!
Think ill just put glass chippings in his shoes..

shoutman

Results?

crisco10

we won and it was in large part due to the suppresion of the pacey guy!! did the 3 + 2 tyoe thing suggested by shoutman...he scored a try early on due to miscommunication but otherwise it worked a treat! thanks guys.....