possibility of grants for wind turbines in future

whitestew

we are building a 2200sq ft house and going for 11kw heat pump. were going for solasyphon willis water heater but while talking to a possible installer of the system, he advised that we would be wasting our time as next year a grant will be available for wind turbines and you will be able to feed it back to the grid. he also reckons the grant will be about 50%. anyone else heard of this???

Doctor_L

Hi,

There are string indications that a scheme will be launched next year regarding domestic wind energy. Smart metering is due to be resolved in 09 so this makes selling back to the grid possible.

At the moment there is a scheme for commercial wind power which is 50 %.

The price per Kw has not been fixed, some experts at the tipp energy conference last week reckoned it will be 8 cents. Commercial wind farms currently get 5.8 cents.

Esb costs 13.75 cents for the consumer.

I would recommend you install a weather station and determine if you have enough wind to sustain a turbine. You will need at least 9 months of data.

If you could sell back at 13.75 cents with a 15% increase year on year on the sell back price my analysis of the past 6 - 8 weeks would indicate a payback time of 14 years. This will payback will change as I gather more data. I will have to wait the full year to figure out how many kws per day.week month etc the turbine generates. Wind is not predictable so smart metering is the most elegant solution. Sell back the excess when there is excess. Battery storage etc has a number of issues and should be avoided if possible.

Regards

Liam

muckety

How do you get/install a weather station? I'm interested in assessing our site which is on a hill and very exposed.

Doctor_L

Hu muckety,

I have an article on my blog about it http://www.irishsilicon.com/archives/2008/04/upperchurch_weather_station.html

The unit stores 4000 records which is about two weeks at 5 mins intervals, you could choose to use a bigger interval e.g the met office uses 1 hour but that is a very large sample time.

The station runs on 2 double AA batteries and the receiver on 3 double aa batteries. The receiver has a usb connection and allows you to download the data using the easy weather app

Regards

Liam

AckwelFoley

whitestew wrote: »

we are building a 2200sq ft house and going for 11kw heat pump.

Do you mind me asking how you came to that conclusion?

Whats the kwh per m2 of the house?

whitestew

snyper wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how you came to that conclusion?


employed a renewables and energy consultant who came and looked at everyting to do with house, site and our lifestyle. recommended insulation level etc...Why do you ask??

Whats the kwh per m2 of the house?

have no idea, sorry

Doctor_L

The max output for a domestic turbine according to the experts at recent conference is 5.74 kw.

Do uou plan to use a battery bank and a large inverter to power your heat pump. Studies are indicating that there can be 40% loss of power if a battery bank is used. Deep cycle batteries from air planes etc seem to have a life span of 5 - 7 years.

A wind turbine is ideal for net metering and ok for powering electrical ufh.

I wouldn't recommend it for powering a heat pump however.

whitestew

to be honest don't a huge pile about it. if and when possible was hoping to feed it directly to the metre. it will only be an option for us when the ESB buy back the electricity and we don't need the battery pack.

Eurorunner

whitestew wrote: »

to be honest don't a huge pile about it. if and when possible was hoping to feed it directly to the metre. it will only be an option for us when the ESB buy back the electricity and we don't need the battery pack.

Spent a few hours over the last few weeks looking into this. Its not just the battery pack thats killing it though is it?

Even working on the assumption of direct connection, the capital and maintenance cost of the kit relative to power produced is prohibitive. Either improvements in the kit itself and price of same and/or SEI subsidy is required to make it worthwhile.

Is that a fair assessment of the current state of play?

John mac

i got a quote last week of £17,000 for the turbine and battery pack.
as my esb bill is €600 per year it would take at least 20 years to pay for itself!
not to mention any maintenance costs.

Doctor_L

Hi,

I did some calculations last night using the latest data I acquired from my weather station.

At the moment based upon 6 weeks of data approx from Apr 23rd to June 2nd.

m/s Hours
0 237.8333333
1 122
2 114.25
3 151.0833333
4 91.33333333
5 110.9166667
6 43.75
7 25.75
8 22.66666667
9 8.416666667
10 6.166666667
12 1.333333333
13 0.416666667


Using rotor diameter and wind swept area. (Ignored the manufacturer data)


A 3.3 Kw turbine with a rotor diameter of 4.6 m would have produced 268 Kw
When annualised this equates to 2516 kw

A 4.2 Kw turbine with a rotor diameter of 5.4 m would have produced 367 Kw
When annualised this equates to 3442 kw


A 6 Kw turbine with a rotor diameter of 6.2 m would have produced 427 Kw
When annualised this equates to 3998 kw



Manufacturers are starting to emerge with systems that have inverters that are priced in the region of 11,000 - 13,000 Euros

stevethesatguy

The Skystream 3.7 is a grid connected wind turbine, should be available in Ireland very soon, initial enquires suggest price is under €10,000

John mac

can you connect them up to the grid?
or are we still waiting for the esb to roll out these smart meters?

Doctor_L

We need smart and net metering for this to be viable

Liam

gally74

ive toyed with this for the past year or two,

there is some chanhe of a grant but site slection is v improtant,

i dont believe heat pumps are a renewable energy, heard there were some fisty scenes at the ploughing champs around heat pump stands,

if you want a turbine, why not put a 400 liter buffer tank in the garage and dump the extra electricity into it, then pump this around forcenteraling heating,

stevethesatguy

The Skystream has ESB approval as far as i am aware and can be connected to your Fusebox via a disconnect switch, the ESB even page a page on their website about it http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/generator_connections/micro_gen_connections.jsp

sinnerboy

Grants for turbines ? - I seriously hope not . If you are lucky enough to be in a position to contemplate this - pay for it yourself

Look at these extracts from 2007 - and tell me then that we ( Ireland ) have been investing wisely ......

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/dail_seanad_assembly/in_the_dail/speeches/17_oct_07_supplementary_estimates


Greener Homes has a budget of €20 million in 2007, accounting for the majority of SEI’s allocated capital budget of €31 million. The success of Greener Homes means that the 2007 allocation is not sufficient to pay all grant approved householders who have installed solar panels, heat pumps, wool pellet boilers and other supported technologies. An additional €9 million is needed in this calendar year to cover these grant approvals.

The low income housing programme was developed several years ago to help establish and implement a national plan of action to systematically address the problem of fuel poverty. The warmer homes scheme is SEI’s main implementing measure under the programme. The warmer homes scheme aims to improve the energy efficiency and comfort conditions of homes occupied by low income households and to establish the systems and grow the capacity in Ireland to install such measures. The scheme adopts a social employment delivery model in which regional community-based organisations acquire and apply the skills to carry out works, including attic and cavity wall insulation, draught proofing, fitting of boiler lagging jackets, energy efficient lighting and energy advice. The low income housing programme has a budget allocation of €1.6 million but an additional €1 million is needed in 2007 if SEI is to meet its commitments under this programme.

rathbaner

It seems to me that rising Irish CO2 emissions since Kyoto (up 160%) and tightening public finances making it difficult to pay for carbon credits could push the govt into encouraging domestic wind generation by forcing the ESB to subsidise it through enhanced pricing of incoming electricity and to absorb the cost.

If they took the time to think about it it might be possible to avoid the construction of a new power station by encouraging local production.

Reasonably priced loans rather than grants could release the potential.

sinnerboy

Better to subsidise public transport. If you drive more than 5 miles per day - wipes out benefit of your A rated / passive house .

But another social question - why should anyone be cold in Ireland ?- credit crunch or not

Upgrade the existing building stock is the obvious way forward.

Turbines ? Heat Pumps ? Solar Panels . Pay for them yourself

rathbaner

sinnerboy wrote: »

Better to subsidise public transport. If you drive more than 5 miles per day - wipes out benefit of your A rated / passive house .

I live in a rural area with no public transport and no prospect of it. But while more subsidy is worthwhile we shoudn't pose the question as a zero sum.

sinnerboy wrote: »

Turbines ? Heat Pumps ? Solar Panels . Pay for them yourself

Yes. Cheap loans are the way forward rather than grants.

What's important is to demonstrate in as many ways as possible that emissions can be reduced effectively and immediately without having to tear up the prevailing economic models. Because if we have to tear up the prevailing economic models then that means that we are too late. Ask your economist friends about the credit crunch; if that's what it takes to make them spend money and take action then it is a very poor model for progress.

sinnerboy

Table 1 page 32 of the UCD Report "Quantifying the Severity of Fuel Poverty" 2002 tells that in 2001 , in Irish Households

( I have split the items into low cost / higher cost items )

Low cost
14% - no lagging jacket
22% - no roof insulation
58% - no wall insulation
60% - no draft stripping

Higher cost
75% - no floor insulation
36% - no double glazing
14% - no central heating

Now the situation may have moved with those who could afford making home improvements. But ... do you expect our low inclome families ( the retired , disabled, unemployed , deserted wives/husbands in single situations ) etc were in position to change things ?

So avoiding clichés like "zero sum" "economic model" etc ( fed up hearing "we are where we are" in liue of " the fundamantals of the economy are sound" )

I say agian - I want to see the €54m SEI funding ( see adobe file page 65 )

http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/downloads/CombinedBudgetEstimates2009&SPCP.pdf

diverted away from heat pumps solar panels wood pellet boilers and towards the lagging jackets , attic insulation , draft stripping . Untill every house in Ireland has this basic provision - pay for your own turbine

baguio

sinnerboy wrote: »

Untill every house in Ireland has this basic provision - pay for your own turbine

Absolutely right. Its tax payers money better spent. Furthermore, the payback times on most of these new technologies needs to come down before it makes economic sense and can be justified.
Outside of the obvious insulation upgrades, the only other worthwhile upgrade at the moment is the installation of a stove in place of an open fire.
In fact I'd love to see them do away with the open fire altogether on new builds but I suppose there would be uproar...

rathbaner

sinnerboy wrote: »

I say agian - I want to see the €54m SEI funding ( see adobe file page 65 )
diverted away from heat pumps solar panels wood pellet boilers and towards the lagging jackets , attic insulation , draft stripping . Untill every house in Ireland has this basic provision - pay for your own turbine

Why can't the road budget pay for turbines? Or the cost of new coal fired power stations - which the ESB will need soon at this rate?

Near my local town the ESB has 4 Pratt & Whittney jetplane engines burning diesel to generate electricity. If this is their strategy fuel poverty can only grow as the cost of power rises.

Emissions must come down or the fines will consume more of our taxes. That's a fact.

Fuel poverty must be eradicated in the most efficient way possible. That's a fact.


Why should a €1000 loan for a renewable generator for a middle class family means that a pensioner goes cold this winter.

If they can find €400 billion for the banks they can find a few mill for pensioners and for meeting the emissions targets they have agreed and signed us all up to.

sinnerboy

rathbaner wrote: »

Emissions must come down or the fines will consume more of our taxes. That's a fact.

This can wait

rathbaner wrote: »

Fuel poverty must be eradicated in the most efficient way possible. That's a fact.

Untill we achieve this

Prioritize .

liamc1

What is the position with net/smart metering at the moment ie what are the tarrifs paid by the ESB

muffler

liamc1 wrote: »

What is the position with net/smart metering at the moment ie what are the tarrifs paid by the ESB

This thread is 4 years old. Please dont dig up threads of this age. Start a new one if you have a query