.220 Swift and .22-250

Kareir

Hey All,

I've heard that, legally, the smallest calibre you can shoot deer with is a .22-250. But, would the .220 swift be considered the same, as they both use bullets of .224 diameter?

Thanks all,
_Kar.

bunny shooter

This has been done here before. Do a search of the forum

Kareir

Hey all,

I recently heard that .22-250 is the minimum calibre for shooting deer. But is the swift legal? it's the exact same size (.224)

Thanks all,

_Kar

bunny shooter

Sure I've seen this somwhere else :rolleyes:

Sparks

Merged, moved to hunting.

And no, the .220 swift isn't legal, the .22-250 is and will remain so, but most hunters are moving away from the .22-250 in droves now that better suited calibres are available.

IRLConor

Wasn't .22-250 only allowed because there was the upper limit of .22 for so many years? I suspect that if that ban wasn't there we would have followed the UK and required a minimum of .240 (I think that's the limit there).

Sparks

Completely correct, but according to the Irish Deer Society at the FCP conference, there are no plans to phase out or make illegeal the .22-250, because the numbers of hunters using it have been falling off dramatically in the last few years, so it wouldn't be worth it.

ivanthehunter

I don't care what the current status on the swift is but it can with certain rates of twist and certain loadings surpass the minimum requirements set in law for a suitable Deer hunting firearm so i would say that you should read deeper and you will find the light..
Ill informed are some of these posters;)

Deer hunting licences have been issued for the swift where it can be shown that the firearm and the ammunition meet the minimum criteria. And thats a fact people here on the forum are a little too eager to dismiss thing they know little of.

It is hard to get the powers that be to licences you with a swift but others have succeed so its up top you to push the boat out..

We used to have a ranger here on the boards(he got driven off by excessive censorship and heavy handed moderation) called Nonameranger and he gave similar advice so check it out...

remember that activities are restricted and as such are not illegal once a licences is obtained:D:D:D:D

patrickdt10

Heard someone say that they seen a .223 licensed for deer. on paper the bullet is bigger than the 22.250. but in reality the .220 swift would be far more capable on a deer than the .223. id say just another case of the expert opinions of the templemore trained ballisticians.

bunny shooter

ivanthehunter wrote: »

...........We used to have a ranger here on the boards(he got driven off by excessive censorship and heavy handed moderation).................

have you been to Feedback ?

IRLConor

ivanthehunter wrote: »

We used to have a ranger here on the boards(he got driven off by excessive censorship and heavy handed moderation) called Nonameranger and he gave similar advice so check it out...

Was that the reason?

He only had three posts after the mods were picked and none of them had been edited or deleted.

jwshooter

patrickdt10 wrote: »

Heard someone say that they seen a .223 licensed for deer. on paper the bullet is bigger than the 22.250. but in reality the .220 swift would be far more capable on a deer than the .223. id say just another case of the expert opinions of the templemore trained ballisticians.

why would any one want to hunt our large species of deer with a 223,22.250 or a swift from 1972 to 1993 when the restriction s were in every one regarded the 22.250 as totally inadequate for hunting and the 5.6X57with a 74gr rws bullet was aspired to ..the 22.250 had a habit of blowing up on wet and wallowed stags or fragment n on hitting bone not giving clean kills .practical experience would suggest bullet weight above 90 grs work best in ireland . i would like to see the 243 as the minimum cal for stalking with a min bullet weight of 75 gr s even in this cal the lighter gr bullets should not be used on deer . there is a lot of **** spoken on this ,killing our quarry efficiently and humanely is not done by chance .

Vegeta

ivanthehunter wrote: »

I don't care what the current status on the swift is but it can with certain rates of twist and certain loadings surpass the minimum requirements set in law for a suitable Deer hunting firearm so i would say that you should read deeper and you will find the light..
Ill informed are some of these posters;)

Deer hunting licences have been issued for the swift where it can be shown that the firearm and the ammunition meet the minimum criteria. And thats a fact people here on the forum are a little too eager to dismiss thing they know little of.

It is hard to get the powers that be to licences you with a swift but others have succeed so its up top you to push the boat out..

We used to have a ranger here on the boards(he got driven off by excessive censorship and heavy handed moderation) called Nonameranger and he gave similar advice so check it out...

remember that activities are restricted and as such are not illegal once a licences is obtained:D:D:D:D

Personally I'd prefer to use the right tool for the job rather than trying to shoot deer with a caliber that is on the lower limit.

How much is .220 swift ammo compared to say .243, they are both great all round calibers but the .243 is that bit more adaptable for larger quarry.

Yes a .220 swift will kill a deer and maybe it is legal (would need proof of that before I go around stating it as fact though) but I cannot understand why you just wouldn't get a bigger caliber.

The rifle wouldn't be more expensive, the ammo wouldn't be more expensive. Makes no sense to me. Give the quarry a bit of respect and use enough gun

Sparks

would need proof of that before I go around stating it as fact though

Especially when the Irish Deer Society are contradicting you!

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

Especially when the Irish Deer Society are contradicting you!

I know a few guys who have gotten section 42's and used a .223 or a .220 swift but I know of no one or heard of anyone using below a .22-250 on a license.

E. Fudd

I read somewhere that because of the velocity of the swift, it tended to break up long before penetrating sufficiently for a clean kill. Whereas, although still not perfect, because of the lower velocity of the 22/250 it was somewhat more effective.

Right or wrong?

Sandy22

ivanthehunter wrote: »

.....and certain loadings...

We used to have a ranger here on the boards.....called Nonameranger......

Silver bullets?

foxshooter243

E. Fudd wrote: »

I read somewhere that because of the velocity of the swift, it tended to break up long before penetrating sufficiently for a clean kill. Whereas, although still not perfect, because of the lower velocity of the 22/250 it was somewhat more effective.

Right or wrong?

I have cronographed both rifles using factory 50 and 55 grain loads and theres not much difference in them-although if you were reloading for them then you could tap the swifts ability to give you velocities over 4000 ft/sec and this in turn gives you more explosive bullet performance.
as the swift is really a varmint cartridge then surface splash on thin skinned animals isnt a problem unless youre planning to skin them.
Theres quite a few states in America which allow the swift for deer hunting, but dont forget the guys in the states will be using rifles with faster twists and heavier bullets than whats available here-for example
a 1:8 twist will launch an 80 grain sierra at 3200 ft/sec out of a swift,
in comparison my 243 is shooting an 85 grain sierra at 3040 ft/sec .
its for this reason that the swift is considered acceptable by a good many states in the US.

F-ClassWillie

jwshooter wrote: »

why would any one want to hunt our large species of deer with a 223,22.250 or a swift from 1972 to 1993 when the restriction s were in every one regarded the 22.250 as totally inadequate for hunting and the 5.6X57with a 74gr rws bullet was aspired to ..the 22.250 had a habit of blowing up on wet and wallowed stags or fragment n on hitting bone not giving clean kills .practical experience would suggest bullet weight above 90 grs work best in ireland . i would like to see the 243 as the minimum cal for stalking with a min bullet weight of 75 gr s even in this cal the lighter gr bullets should not be used on deer . there is a lot of **** spoken on this ,killing our quarry efficiently and humanely is not done by chance .

Furthermore jwshooter the larger calibers tend to leave a greater blood trail and in the event the Deer does not drop stright away it can be tracked and dispatched without too much suffering. Highland Ghillies expert stalkers know this and why .308 & .270 is often insisted upon by estates for larger deer in Scotland.

Vegeta

foxshooter243 wrote: »

I have cronographed both rifles using factory 50 and 55 grain loads and theres not much difference in them-although if you were reloading for them then you could tap the swifts ability to give you velocities over 4000 ft/sec and this in turn gives you more explosive bullet performance.
as the swift is really a varmint cartridge then surface splash on thin skinned animals isnt a problem unless youre planning to skin them.
Theres quite a few states in America which allow the swift for deer hunting, but dont forget the guys in the states will be using rifles with faster twists and heavier bullets than whats available here-for example
a 1:8 twist will launch an 80 grain sierra at 3200 ft/sec out of a swift,
in comparison my 243 is shooting an 85 grain sierra at 3040 ft/sec .
its for this reason that the swift is considered acceptable by a good many states in the US.

Yeah, as the always wise foxshooter points out initial velocity and energy are very important but heavy rounds hold their enery better down range and provide more ooomph at distance.

Its not the caliber but the configuration we seem to use here. Same as the .223 I would love to buy a few 69 grainers but no one close to me stocks anything over 50-55.

foxshooter243

Vegeta wrote: »

Yeah, as the always wise foxshooter points out initial velocity and energy are very important but heavy rounds hold their enery better down range and provide more ooomph at distance.

Its not the caliber but the configuration we seem to use here. Same as the .223 I would love to buy a few 69 grainers but no one close to me stocks anything over 50-55.

vegetta, ive used 69 grain sierras matchkings in the 223 with a fast twist,
and 80 grain vmax-you need the 1:10 twist for 69 grains and 1:8 twist for
everything else up to 80 grains, in recent years in the states the 223 using these heavier bullets gained acceptance as a target round, mostly used in the service rifle category of national match, and gives the 308 a fine run in the 600 yard hi-power.They will surprise you with their accuracy out to 600 yards, ive left some guys quite dumbfounded when
we decide to have some informal clay busting out to 6oo yards and they see the 223 outperforming their varmint rifles-although i tend to forget to mention im using heavy bullets:D

Vegeta

foxshooter243 wrote: »

vegetta, ive used 69 grain sierras matchkings in the 223 with a fast twist,
and 80 grain vmax-you need the 1:10 twist for 69 grains and 1:8 twist for
everything else up to 80 grains, in recent years in the states the 223 using these heavier bullets gained acceptance as a target round, mostly used in the service rifle category of national match, and gives the 308 a fine run in the 600 yard hi-power.They will surprise you with their accuracy out to 600 yards, ive left some guys quite dumbfounded when
we decide to have some informal clay busting out to 6oo yards and they see the 223 outperforming their varmint rifles-although i tend to forget to mention im using heavy bullets:D

What should I aim for with the 1 in 9 of the tikka, 75?

foxshooter243

Vegeta wrote: »

What should I aim for with the 1 in 9 of the tikka, 75?

if it were me, i would be leaning towards the sierra 69 grain matchking,
which works well in 7"-10" barrels sitting on top of a suitable dose of
hodgdons Varget powder-this is a well rated combination for target shooting;)

That is when we get reloading introduced hopefully

Vegeta

foxshooter243 wrote: »

if it were me, i would be leaning towards the sierra 69 grain matchking,
which works well in 7"-10" barrels sitting on top of a suitable dose of
hodgdons Varget powder-this is a well rated combination for target shooting;)

Sigh. I really want to be able to reload my own ammo. I am sick to the back teeth of only being able to buy crap ammo.

At the range sunday and felt like just throwing the rifle away.

Kareir

Thanks all,

I was just looking at the Federal Ballistics software, and the swift wins out on pretty much everything over the .22-250. With 60 grain hollowpoints, available from Hornady, i thought they'd do a pretty good job... also, Federal lists the swift after the .22-250 in order of smallest - biggest.

_Kar.

PS: sorry for double post.