Treated Badly in an Interview.Who do I complain to?

TheBeach

I've just come back from an interview and to be honest I'm in a bit of shock at just how badly I was treated. I actually ended up having an argument with the interviewer about the questions she asked me (which included Are you married and do you have any children?). I want to complain but I don't know who to. I'm guessing we don't have an ombudsman for that type of thing?!? Any advice would be appreciated.

Bit of background about the organisation: Community sector, run by a Managment group and funded by the county council.

feylya

Equality Commission?

who_ru

that's totally out of order they cannot ask your marital status or if you have children, i would definetly challenge them on that.

TheBeach

Thanks folks. I'be contacted the equality authority on dublin and have been signposted to the the equalitytribunal website (form EE1). Thanks again.

run_Forrest_run

this boils my blood...typical that a woman should ask this...I bet she was one of the many cold hearted bully-bit*h who only got to where she is by being cut-throat.

yes, contact the equality commission about this and report her and the company.

pa daly

Age
Race
Marital Status
Religion
Sexual Orientation
Member of the travelling Community
No of Children
Family Status
Disability
Gender

These are the main grounds for discrimination and no interviewer who is professional and competent at thier job will question you on any of these areas. So yes you have a case for discrimination if your application was based on one of these factors. Im not sure what kind of action you could take tho since there is no contract between you and the other party. You could certainly report them.

snellers

take it as far as you possibly can - ....our tax pennies are assisting funding of these ******* ....they should not be allowed to get away with it.

If the rules regarding interviews are anything like the UK then the interview notes taken at the interview must be kept for a period of time (and you are within your rights to request a copy of those notes)

best of luck with this and let us know how it goes!

Supercell

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

this boils my blood...typical that a woman should ask this...I bet she was one of the many cold hearted bully-bit*h who only got to where she is by being cut-throat.

Why do you reach that conclusion?, do you think the only way she could possibly have succeeded as to be more man then the men she competed against?

I'm sorry but that's total bull****.
The interviewer is a bitch it seems, but lets not try to classify her into the "only bitches are successful" group please.

I am a guy btw and work with very capable women on a daily basis, there are plenty of women out there that are feminine and successful because they are better at the job they do than anyone else.

TheBeach

snellers wrote: »

take it as far as you possibly can - ....our tax pennies are assisting funding of these ******* ....they should not be allowed to get away with it.

If the rules regarding interviews are anything like the UK then the interview notes taken at the interview must be kept for a period of time (and you are within your rights to request a copy of those notes)

best of luck with this and let us know how it goes!

Notes? The two members of the panel didn't as much as have a piece of paper or a pen between them. The only things on the table were the other candidates cvs and application letters, with their names, addresses and everything else on display. I wasn't introduced to either of the panel nor did they shake my hand or offer me a seat.

x in the city

who are these cowboys?

you should have asked her how many kids have you got and hows the marriage going.....

WindSock

What did they say in the argument?

Prenderb

Are you sure these weren't just asked in a friendly ice-breaking way?

I presume that you haven't actually been discriminated against yet, having only just been asked the questions and no formal results from the interview being issued?

WindSock

Even if it was, they still shouldn't be asking these questions. A lot of interviewers would use these friendly 'chat' tactics to wheedle this sort of info out.

Xcellor

It's not against the law to ask questions that the interviewer did however it is against the law to use that information to decide whether to hire you or not.

I have been in a situation where I was asked my age because I was going into a role that was considered "senior". I had suspected that I might have been asked something like this and I decided to answer it. By not answering it I felt I would put myself in a worse position.

I can't say that arguing in your case was a good idea. A simple response would have been, "Can you let me know is having children / married a requirement for this position?" The interviewer should then realise that this question is not suitable and move along.

If everything goes well on the interview and if bad questions are asked i.e. like the ones that you were asked but you were professionally competent to get the job then you can make the case that they discrimated on the grounds of what was mentioned in previous posts. They are obliged to keep interview notes.

Really an interview is an interview, it is a formal setup, there are no place for questions like that. An interviewer can break the ice in many other areas if needs be.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

flash harry

Xcellor wrote: »

It's not against the law to ask questions that the interviewer did however it is against the law to use that information to decide whether to hire you or not.

.

xCellor speaks a lot of sense - you have very little, legally, unless you can prove you were discriminated against on the grounds of the answers to these questions. Proving this is never easy AND I'm guessing the 2nd person in interview will say "that didn't happen"

What was said in the argument?

siobhan.murphy

i went for an interview years ago in a hair salon,I was fully qualified,and did a few trials up there,yer man was pleased and I thought I was home and hosed,
I asked my friend who was also a friend of the guy that had the salon to discretely how i had done,he said I was v.good but didnt look the part as I was too short!(5ft1")

Phaetonman

I was v.good but didnt look the part as I was too short!(5ft1")

Nothing illegal about that sort of discrimination.

siobhan.murphy

I laughed it off but i was hurt,he gave the job to a girl who was only after starting hairdressing 6 mths,not very good and im not just saying that but she was a stunner,
by the way im not a hog either!just a little short!

BC

I assume that even if you were offered the job that you don't want it?
In the case I would write a formal letter to the HR dept and or/directory of the company advising of how badly you were treated by the interviewers. Aside from the marital status questions (which aren't illegal as others have said but are a bit stupid), not even introducing themselves is just plain rude.

AARRRGH

siobhan.murphy wrote: »

by the way im not a hog either!just a little short!

Short girls are lovely looking. Don't worry about it!

AlexBM

Yeah, name and shame! I went for an interview a few months ago and was also asked if I was married. I wish I'd followed it through now.

run_Forrest_run

fair enough Supercell, I agree not all successful women are bitches. Just that in my experience the majority of them are just that..anyway it's drifting from the point here.

kerry4sam

Xcellor wrote: »

It's not against the law to ask questions that the interviewer did however it is against the law to use that information to decide whether to hire you or not.

I can't say that arguing in your case was a good idea. A simple response would have been, "Can you let me know is having children / married a requirement for this position?" The interviewer should then realise that this question is not suitable and move along.

If everything goes well on the interview and if bad questions are asked i.e. like the ones that you were asked but you were professionally competent to get the job then you can make the case that they discrimated on the grounds of what was mentioned in previous posts. They are obliged to keep interview notes.

I agree with this poster ... They can ask you that question in the interview if they so wish, it's just that they cannot use it as a deciding factor in employing you or not ...

The reason they may have asked you that question was to guage how you would answer it ... They may have just wanted to know how you would react if faced in a situation where you were not completely comfortable with ... While it may not have been something you felt was appropriate for the interview why didn't you just say just that 'that you wondered why the question is relevant' and move on from there while remaining calm.

SarahMc

TheBeach wrote: »

Bit of background about the organisation: Community sector, run by a Managment group and funded by the county council.

Totally unacceptable questions, but ime, management committees on these panels tend to be people who are not in the workforce. People who volunteer their time and may be even more nervous than you at the interview. This "may" have been a chit chat -break the ice type questions and not in any way have determined the outcome of the interview.

If this is the type of sector you choose to work in - get used to it, and stop running to the Equality Authority!

snellers

why is it here in Ireland peoples attitude seem to be 'just get used to it...blah blah blah.....what is it with this backwards attitude? (I of course am not tarring everyone with the brush but I have experienced at least 3 or 4 situations like this in recent times)

if people don;t address the problems then the problems continue - why should people be allowed to get away with it? IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE ....I guarantee you, as a guy I wouldn;t be asked 'are you planning on having kids'

If these management panels aren;t professional or qualified enough to interview they shouldn;t interview...period.

I assume SarahMc you are a woman? do you think it is acceptable to be discriminated because you are female? I do not accept the chat was to relax the interviewee....sounds like they were totally unprepared, unqualified and ignorant - this is not acceptable.

as for the legality of it....in the UK you cannot ask the questions......you won;t go to jail of course if you do but if found guilty and potentially discriminatory your company would be in trouble......

SarahMc

Yes I am a woman, and work in this sector. I have been to several interviews of this sort, where the volunteer management committee were interviewing, and asked questions like do you have children, what school do they go to, and you're a single parent - fair play to you, these questions can be supplemented with questions about the weather, where I am going on holidays etc. Sometimes I have been offered the job, sometimes not.

It is just the nature of the sector, that these interviews are more informal chit chat. There is just no comparison with interviews in private sector, or even with large NGOs.

homeOwner

SarahMc wrote: »

Yes I am a woman, and work in this sector. I have been to several interviews of this sort, where the volunteer management committee were interviewing, and asked questions like do you have children, what school do they go to, and you're a single parent - fair play to you, these questions can be supplemented with questions about the weather, where I am going on holidays etc. Sometimes I have been offered the job, sometimes not.

It is just the nature of the sector, that these interviews are more informal chit chat. There is just no comparison with interviews in private sector, or even with large NGOs.

Those are not questions appropriate for a job interview. Interviewing for new staff is a legal minefield and any company worth their salt would instruct interviewers to steer clear of even mentioning marraige, children, age, religion during the interview process for fear it be taken out of context or used as a deciding factor.

OP you should make a formal complaint to HR in the company you interviewed with in writing and send a copy onto the relevant governing body.

TheBeach

SarahMc wrote: »

Yes I am a woman, and work in this sector. I have been to several interviews of this sort, where the volunteer management committee were interviewing, and asked questions like do you have children, what school do they go to, and you're a single parent - fair play to you, these questions can be supplemented with questions about the weather, where I am going on holidays etc. Sometimes I have been offered the job, sometimes not.

It is just the nature of the sector, that these interviews are more informal chit chat. There is just no comparison with interviews in private sector, or even with large NGOs.

Firstly, thanks for all the responses.

Sarah, I too, have been working in the Community Voluntary Sector for just under 15 years. The reason I like working in this sector is that it's people orientated and not profit orientated. One of the things that the sector is noted for is the huge amount of accountability and the strigent monitoring required from funders. As I'm sure you know, Community Voluntary Sector organisations rely on funding from a variety of sources. The funding is hard to get and in filling in applications for any funding, be it from NGO's or service level agreements appendices have to be attached, namely policies e.g. Recruitment Procedures, Child Protection Policies and Health and Safety. After the funding is granted, each funder requires reports done on same and this is how the funding in drawn down. To say that the nature of the sector is informal and to suggest that legislation does not apply to them is simply incorrect.

It may not bother you being asked about your personal circumstances in a job interview, but it isn't correct and they aren't supposed to ask. I'm more than happy to answer questions about my personal life with colleagues, but I can't see what it has to do with the post I'm applying for.

As for running to the equality board, if it weren't for people doing the same, woman would be still chained to the sink and black people would still be sitting at the back of the bus.

h2s

flash harry wrote: »

xCellor speaks a lot of sense - you have very little, legally, unless you can prove you were discriminated against on the grounds of the answers to these questions. Proving this is never easy AND I'm guessing the 2nd person in interview will say "that didn't happen"

What was said in the argument?

I have worked in HR & Industrial relations for the best part of 25 years and to ask such questions in an interview is unprofessional and dangerous from a legal viewpoint.

I have had situations where disciplinary measures were taken against the interviewer because of the interviewer exposed the company in question to a serious claim. I would give any of my interviewers a serious bollocking if I caught them asking such questions and they wouldn’t be interviewing again without retraining.

After all these years of advising people and companies and dealing with fallout from the claims that happen as a result, I am still amazed that this still goes on.

My final word of advice is that such questions that were asked of the OP should NEVER be asked in an interview unless you can show it was absolutely vital to the performance of the job that the questions were necessary.

flash harry

h2s wrote: »

I have worked in HR & Industrial relations for the best part of 25 years and to ask such questions in an interview is unprofessional and dangerous from a legal viewpoint.

I have had situations where disciplinary measures were taken against the interviewer because of the interviewer exposed the company in question to a serious claim. I would give any of my interviewers a serious bollocking if I caught them asking such questions and they wouldn’t be interviewing again without retraining.

After all these years of advising people and companies and dealing with fallout from the claims that happen as a result, I am still amazed that this still goes on.

My final word of advice is that such questions that were asked of the OP should NEVER be asked in an interview unless you can show it was absolutely vital to the performance of the job that the questions were necessary.

all true - but asking them still not illeagel - stupid and asking for trouble, yes

Phaetonman

flash harry wrote: »

all true - but asking them still not illeagel - stupid and asking for trouble, yes

It is illegal and it can be used as grounds for discrmination if you don't get the job. You can ask all the questions you like if you give a person the job but if you don't you are leaving yourself wide open.

flash harry

Phaetonman wrote: »

It is illegal and it can be used as grounds for discrmination if you don't get the job. You can ask all the questions you like if you give a person the job but if you don't you are leaving yourself wide open.

(nausea)

asking the question is not illegal, discriminating on the basis of the answer is

Hellrazer

flash harry wrote: »

(nausea)

asking the question is not illegal, discriminating on the basis of the answer is

Asking the question may not be illegal but how does the OP know that she was/wasnt discriminated against because of the way she answered the questions??
Actually OP how did you answer the questions??

Thats where the problem lies.Say she was asked about her marriage/kids and then didnt get the job,its quite easy for a person to assume that the reason they werent offered the job was because of the above marital/kids situation when the reason was entirely different and then takes it further to the equality commission.
Companies who ask such questions are unprofessional and leaving themselves open to legal action.

Here we are given a list of questions here that should never be asked in an interview mainly because it leaves the company wide open to legal action in the case of a person who may have been asked the wrong question at interview and then didnt get the job for maybe a totally unrelated reason.

Phaetonman

flash harry wrote: »

(nausea)

asking the question is not illegal, discriminating on the basis of the answer is

Even if an employer doesnt use that answer to discrimate as soon as they've asked the question and then not given a person the job they are liable to discrimination. Believe me the judge will go with the interviewee all the time.

Rhonda9000

Xcellor wrote: »

It's not against the law to ask questions that the interviewer did however it is against the law to use that information to decide whether to hire you or not.

flash harry wrote: »

asking the question is not illegal, discriminating on the basis of the answer is

These are gross misinterpretations of the law on the point in my view:

"Questions asked at interview concerning marital status can constitute discrimination contrary to the European Equality Act 1977 s. 2(a) and 3."

Simply that the question at all was asked can be sufficient in law.

Equality legislation does not require an employer to recruit or retain a person who is not fully competent, fully capable and available to carry out the duties of the job [Employment Equality Act 1998, s. 16 as amended by the Equality Act 2004, s. 9]. On this basis, the asking of the question on (e.g. marital status, family status, sexual orientation etc.) of itself does not go towards ascertaining the cantidates likely competence or capability in the post being interviewed for.

There are certain exceptions - certain posts in the Garda Siochana, the defence forces and the prison service are excluded from parts of the legislation, similarly it is not discriminatory to confine a job to a particular sex, where the characteristic relating to gender consitutes a genuine and determining occupational requirement for the post (e.g. in entertainment).

jdf

Rather than get into an argument with the interviewer I would have calmly asked to see your contract and stated what salary they would be paying you. Furthermore you would be starting the following Monday and could the organise to have your desk, id card and any usernames and passwords ready.

Xcellor

Rhonda9000 wrote: »

These are gross misinterpretations of the law on the point in my view:

"Questions asked at interview concerning marital status can constitute discrimination contrary to the European Equality Act 1977 s. 2(a) and 3."

Simply that the question at all was asked can be sufficient in law.

Equality legislation does not require an employer to recruit or retain a person who is not fully competent, fully capable and available to carry out the duties of the job [Employment Equality Act 1998, s. 16 as amended by the Equality Act 2004, s. 9]. On this basis, the asking of the question on (e.g. marital status, family status, sexual orientation etc.) of itself does not go towards ascertaining the cantidates likely competence or capability in the post being interviewed for.

There are certain exceptions - certain posts in the Garda Siochana, the defence forces and the prison service are excluded from parts of the legislation, similarly it is not discriminatory to confine a job to a particular sex, where the characteristic relating to gender consitutes a genuine and determining occupational requirement for the post (e.g. in entertainment).

Working in HR previously and going on some HR related courses it was always made clear you should never ask these questions. However the asking alone is not wrong. It isn't possible to descriminate someone by just asking a question. It's what you do with the answer that will determine if you are discrimating.

X

h2s

Look the fact that you asked the question alone is enough to get you into trouble and there is no point in saying to the RC, EAT or whatever, please sir I didn’t used the info in making a decision. Whether or not the asking of the questions is illegal in statute is only a red herring.

There was a case recently where a woman was asked “ inappropriate questions” and she won her case. The frightening thing about that case was that the questions were part of “small talk” after the formal interview as she was been escorted to reception and the tribunal concluded that the small talk had influenced the decision not to give her the job.It shows that it so important to be careful what you say at any point while you are engaging with a potential recruit.

Anyone engaged in recruitment and selection must steer clear of any question regarding the individual’s personal life unless, as I said before, they can show the information gain by such questions were absolutely necessary for the position.

Good interview notes are essential; however in my experience very few if any companies ever keep notes that are adequate to win a case.

Rhonda9000

Xcellor wrote: »

However the asking alone is not wrong. It isn't possible to descriminate someone by just asking a question. It's what you do with the answer that will determine if you are discrimating.

X

X, I have to disagree.

In law, the matter is clear. In decided cases it has been established that asking quetions (on the 9 equality grounds) alone can be sufficient to amount to discrimination. The practical effect of this is that interviewers do not ask such questions because the mere asking of them alone has such a high degree of legal danger attached.

This system is efficient: i.e. simply asking certain questions alone will virtually always be legally problematic, so interviewers avoid asking them entirely and accordingly the point of discrimination 'proper' cannot then arise.

Contrast this to a system where interviewers could freely ask irrelevant questions about family life, sexual preference etc. A huge bulk of expensive, subjective "she-said-he-said" litigation immediately springs up, as interviewers fire away asking the questions and discriminating on the basis of the answers (unfair) and on the other hand disgruntled incompetent candidates scream discrimination to try and find some face-saving way to justify why they were not hired (downright annoying).

jdf

Like I said I would simply have moved to telling them what my terms and conditions were - like the fact that I felt that 75,000 eurodollahs was what my annual salary was, and oh I never work Tuesdays, or the Friday of a Bank Holiday.