Rail tunnel between Ireland and Wales?

Affable

If you check out a map, the coasts are not that far apart at all. About 100km/60 miles I reckon.

Why not do it?

EDIT:found this old story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/4121001.stm

Auvers

Affable wrote: »

Why not do it?

Money

elmolesto

Affable wrote: »

If you check out a map, the coasts are not that far apart at all. About 100km/35 miles I reckon.

Why not do it?

EDIT:found this old story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/4121001.stm

100km is 62 miles while 35 miles is 55km

mike65

Its been talked about before, a seabed semi submerged tube, something like the one between Denmark and Sweden which is much shorter.

Mike.

RobAMerc

no doubt Vincent Salafia will bring an injunction against it !

Although it is a silly idea that will never be realized.

Perhaps one that links NI to Scotland may happen as the Rosslare-Pembroke one would need to be funded solely by us - and eh thats not going to happen now is it !

Affable

elmolesto wrote: »

100km is 62 miles while 35 miles is 55km

Yes whoops, my mistake. Still do-able though.

Adam

Affable wrote: »

Yes whoops, my mistake. Still do-able though.

Cool, let us know how you get on!

elmolesto

The channel tunnel was a financial disaster. I think they just broke even this year.

cornbb

The channel tunnel is only 20-odd miles long but it cost billions that will never be recouped, following the emergence of budget airlines. You're talking about a tunnel 3 times as long, connecting countries with much smaller populations. It'll never happen.

Affable

RobAMerc wrote: »

Although it is a silly idea that will never be realized.

I don't see that it's any more silly than the London Paris one.

rollie

Affable wrote: »

Yes whoops, my mistake. Still do-able though.

as long as you aren't the chief engineer....

mike65

See above! London 7 million Paris 8 million. UK and France 60 million each.

Mike.

Maximilian

Affable wrote: »

Why not do it?

Sea Orcs.

Blisterman

Well, if fuel prices keep heading the way they are, I can see this one becoming feasible in the future.

aidan_walsh

cornbb wrote: »

The channel tunnel is only 20-odd miles long but it cost billions that will never be recouped, following the emergence of budget airlines. You're talking about a tunnel 3 times as long, connecting countries with much smaller populations. It'll never happen.

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a government sponsored project.

RATM

Never say never !

There will come a day when the Green Lobby has ensured that flying will become too expensive for the average person, peak oil will also contribute to this. We currently live in the Golden Age of flying, from here on in prices of flights can only rise as oil gets more scarce.

And the day when freighting goods by road will become prohibitively expensive will also arrive, prompting a huge shift back to doing it by rail. Trains can transport many multiples of what you'd fit in a lorry so it will eventually make total sense ( if it doesnt already ). Expect to see new rail tracks being built and old ones reopened ( as is the plan with the Dublin-Navan route )

Id easily predict the day when France and the UK build yet another tunnel to deal specifically with freight and let the current one serve passengers only.

And it wouldn't surprise me if we get our own link to Wales, if fact within the next 30 years it will begin to make more and more financial sense regardless of the initial outlay.

I wouldn't go investing in a road haulage company anytime soon....

Blisterman

Also, don't forget, it's much easier to power trains, through sustainable energy, than road vehicles or ships.

astrofool

Technology has much advanced in tunnel building since the channel tunnel, and it could be built at a much smaller cost today.

Also, the costs of the tunnel were factored into taking many decades to pay back the loan, if they break even this year, and move into profit in the years ahead, the initial capital investment will be paid back many times over. A tunnel is also far less polluting, and potentially quicker than using air travel.

However, the populations aren't really large enough to support it, and we're not exactly crying out for capacity that our ports can't handle.

loyatemu

I'll get my pick, you bring your shovel, we'll be eating leeks in Cardiff by Christmas!!

Affable

Wow the rail journey from Dublin to London would only be about the same as London to Edinburgh. Barely anything to Cardiff or Bristol. Think of Irish students using it...

ScumLord

I think it would be a much better idea to convince the Brits to make a tunnel between N.I and Scotland.

RATM

astrofool wrote: »

A tunnel is also far less polluting, and potentially quicker than using air travel.
.

Too right, the TGV in France just tested a new train last year that set a world record of 574km per hour ( 357mph ). Thats like Belfast to Cork in an hour, unbelievable!*

The ones they are using at the moment are clocking 320mph ( 200mph ) with the result that ppl are now commuting to Paris for work from way down as far as the Alps. Flying domestically in France is becoming less viable as the airlines can't compete with what high speed rail offers, especially for journeys under 3 hours. No security, no queues, no baggage limits, no trolly dollies trying to sell you scratch cards, reclining seats you can actually get a proper sleep in with ample legroom....sounds like bliss:)

All the countries around France ( and the UK )are investing heavily in high speed rail right now, it looks like its going to be the truly luxurious way to travel in the future. Until some little known company called Ryanrail comes in and destroys it all that is:D

Dublin1600

Dublin port tunnel disaster springs to mind :eek: "The tunnels are 4.5 km (2.8 miles) in length and total project length of 5.6 km (3.5 miles). It had final cost of approximately €752 million." This equals rougly €215 million per mile of tunnel, so multiply that by 50 miles = €10.75 billion. Where are those poxy celtic tigers when you need one That **** we call our government wasted the best years Ireland will ever see.

heyjude

Blisterman wrote: »

Well, if fuel prices keep heading the way they are, I can see this one becoming feasible in the future.

As fuel prices rise so will the cost of building tunnels etc. , I mean drilling machines and the accompanying equipment use fuel too.

But I agree with the others that have said that it will never be built. Look at the cost of building an underground metro in Dublin and multiply that many times for a 60 mile long undersea tunnel. Then factor in the relatively low usage that the tunnel would get due to the low population living either side of it and then think of our last major tunnel project, the Dublin Port Tunnel, which finished way above budget, suffered serious delays due to water leaking in and is frequently closed even now due to technical problems.

So based on past form a tunnel under the Irish Sea would cost several times the projected cost, would be completed years behind schedule and would be subject to regular closures! Not the sort of scenario that would have bankers itching to loan the money for such a project and the taxpayer could never afford the tens of billions of Euro it would cost, even at todays prices.

Affable

RATM wrote: »

Too right, the TGV in France just tested a new train last year that set a world record of 574km per hour ( 357mph ). Thats like Belfast to Cork in an hour, unbelievable!*

The ones they are using at the moment are clocking 320mph ( 200mph ) with the result that ppl are now commuting to Paris for work from way down as far as the Alps. Flying domestically in France is becoming less viable as the airlines can't compete with what high speed rail offers, especially for journeys under 3 hours. No security, no queues, no baggage limits, no trolly dollies trying to sell you scratch cards, reclining seats you can actually get a proper sleep in with ample legroom....sounds like bliss:)

All the countries around France ( and the UK )are investing heavily in high speed rail right now, it looks like its going to be the truly luxurious way to travel in the future. Until some little known company called Ryanrail comes in and destroys it all that is:D

Maybe not rational, but something in me doesn't trust those high speed trains to be as safe somehow.

jester77

They should sort out the pitiful effort of a train system they run in Ireland before they even think about something like this.

RATM

jester77 wrote: »

They should sort out the pitiful effort of a train system they run in Ireland before they even think about something like this.

True, its hard to believe that CIE boast of their hourly service from Dublin to Cork taking a whopping 3 hours with their flashy new trains. The French and the Japanese have trains sorted big time, we are light years behind.

And ppl say the French have hassle with unions, in fairness they still get the job done when it comes to transport....

sharkDawg

RATM wrote: »

Too right, the TGV in France just tested a new train last year that set a world record of 574km per hour ( 357mph ). Thats like Belfast to Cork in an hour, unbelievable!*

The ones they are using at the moment are clocking 320mph ( 200mph ) with the result that ppl are now commuting to Paris for work from way down as far as the Alps.

They are awful expensive though, your average person isn't using them to commute from the alps to Paris!

Someday. Although when teleportation devices become commercialised all these notions of travelling on wheels will become obselete.

Davidius

Ah sure I made construction plans for this ages ago. It's a bit of a hobby you see. Give us €150.95 for supplies and I'll have it done by tomorrow.

more boats!!!
A bit cheaper! :rolleyes:

Blisterman

heyjude wrote: »

As fuel prices rise so will the cost of building tunnels etc. , I mean drilling machines and the accompanying equipment use fuel too.

Yes, but that's a once off cost. Many many thousands times more money would be spent on fuel for flights over the years.

Personally, I actually think a bridge would be more feasible, than a tunnel.

If I remember correctly, the Irish sea never gets any deeper than 200m or so, so it is a possibility.

I'd imagine, people would prefer to travel across a bridge, than a tunnel.

Affable

Blisterman wrote: »

Yes, but that's a once off cost. Many many thousands times more money would be spent on fuel for flights over the years.

Personally, I actually think a bridge would be more feasible, than a tunnel.

If I remember correctly, the Irish sea never gets any deeper than 200m or so, so it is a possibility.

I'd imagine, people would prefer to travel across a bridge, than a tunnel.

You mean a rail, road or both bridge?

RATM

sharkDawg wrote: »

They are awful expensive though, your average person isn't using them to commute from the alps to Paris!

For the distances involved they are not actually too bad. For instance I paid 52 euro one way from Lyon to Paris last summer, a distance of just under 500km which it covered in little over 2 hours. Im not sure how much a return was but to put it in perspective a one way from Dublin to Cork is 33 euro and 252km, more or less half the distance but more than half the price. When you think of the millions they've spent on these super fast trains, separate tracks ( so slower trains cant hold them up ) and all the extra safety tests, etc that would have to be done it actually compares quite favourably with Ireland in terms of price.

But you are right, most ppl wouldn't commute from the Alps to Paris on a daily basis but there are plenty commuting from a belt that lies over 250kms from Paris which takes about an hour on an average TGV. Its very feasible in comparison to here.An hour on an Irish train would only get you as far as Drogheda, 55kms up the coast which just goes to illustrate how much catching up CIE have to do. Can't really see it ever happening though, they'd literally have to have CPO's on thousands of houses to build new tracks, the legal eagles would be minting themselves for years to come.

RATM

Blisterman wrote: »

If I remember correctly, the Irish sea never gets any deeper than 200m or so, so it is a possibility.

I'd imagine, people would prefer to travel across a bridge, than a tunnel.

I think you are right about the 200m bit but as far as I know thats where the problems would actually start. Because it is so shallow ( as seas go ) and the channel through it is relatively narrow it means when the weather kicks off it gets larger waves than other seas. Such a bridge would have to to way way up on stilts and be seriously re-inforced to withstand the constant pounding of said waves. It's probably also beyond the realms of possibility of any engineering feat the Paddy's and Brits could come up with, maybe call in the Scandinavians:D

neacy69

RATM wrote: »

Too right, the TGV in France just tested a new train last year that set a world record of 574km per hour ( 357mph ). Thats like Belfast to Cork in an hour, unbelievable!*

While 357mph may be impressive it will be no use to Irish rail seeing as they will sent a local communter service out ahead of it like they do with the Enterprise every fecking couple of days.....

Sherifu

I'm all for any move which makes all those sheep more accessible.

Adam

Sherifu wrote: »

I'm all for any move which makes all those sheep more accessible.

:pac:

We're like assassins... :cool:

RATM

neacy69 wrote: »

While 357mph may be impressive it will be no use to Irish rail seeing as they will sent a local communter service out ahead of it like they do with the Enterprise every fecking couple of days.....

Yeah I remember when the Enterprise first started, it used to leave Drogheda at 07.58 and arrive in Connolly at 08.20, absolute bliss for commuters. But then the DART got extended to Malahide and the journey jumped up to 45 mins because of it. It was probably too cumbersome to provide for an extra track but it's going to happen at some stage in the future, they can't possibly operate the Dublin Belfast line off two tracks if the projected population of the country is going to hit over 5m ( on second thoughts they probably can, and will ). What a waste of the Celtic Tiger, 15 years of boom and all we've got is a motorway that resembles a carpark:mad: