Bad news for Dublin and Ireland

Sean02

Just reading about this proposed Q.B.C. proposed for Phoenix Park. This is similar to the idea of extending the Luas up Chichester Ave. a few years ago. That idea had some merit as a April 1st. Day Joke. Now "they" seem determined to turn this most beutiful and tranqil amenity into another M50 type car park at peak times. Where is the environmental impact survey. What are the views of the Green Party. Could we have a comment from Minister Gormley?. The new tourist bus is a fantastic idea however the QBC will benefit nowbody in the short or long term.

mikemac

At the moment, buses are banned but cars are not, is that correct?
So maybe allow buses and ban cars (except for staff), would that work?

Btw, I though a QBC cuts congestion, not adds to it. Do you mean there will be longer tailbacks of cars caused by the QBC?

Sorry, there's a lot of questions there

Morgan

Proposed by who?

goldfish

Sean02 wrote: »

Just reading about this proposed Q.B.C. proposed for Phoenix Park. This is similar to the idea of extending the Luas up Chichester Ave. a few years ago. That idea had some merit as a April 1st. Day Joke. Now "they" seem determined to turn this most beutiful and tranqil amenity into another M50 type car park at peak times. Where is the environmental impact survey. What are the views of the Green Party. Could we have a comment from Minister Gormley?. The new tourist bus is a fantastic idea however the QBC will benefit nowbody in the short or long term.

It's already an M50 type car park at peak times! Granted tearing up Chesterfield Ave is not a great idea - but in order to do something about the existing traffic and move people to public transport, you've got to give them options. At the moment it takes over an hour on the bus from Castleknock to the city centre, this should shorten it to 25 mins or so if the bus has a clear run down the phoenix park. Should get a good proportion of people out of cars and on to bus , meaning the park has less traffic.

niceonetom

links?

Sean02 wrote: »

Just reading about this proposed Q.B.C. proposed for Phoenix Park. This is similar to the idea of extending the Luas up Chichester Ave. a few years ago. That idea had some merit as a April 1st. Day Joke.

i, for one, would be very strongly in favour of a western luas spur going through the Phoenix park. a near silent, zero-emission, light rail system would be far superior to the thousands of cars that currently use it and would link heuston station and the rest of the luas system to the 300,000+ people who live in west dublin. the trade off would be NO CARS. there would be serious resistance to this though. "bus corridors" are a cheap, quick, and thoroughly nasty way of achieving more or less the same thing, but in a totally half-arsed, good-enough, oirish way.

Sean02 wrote: »

Now "they" seem determined to turn this most beutiful and tranqil amenity into another M50 type car park at peak times. Where is the environmental impact survey. What are the views of the Green Party. Could we have a comment from Minister Gormley?. The new tourist bus is a fantastic idea however the QBC will benefit nowbody in the short or long term.

again, links?? who "they"? it IS a car park.

i was unaware that Minister Gormley was a boardsie and could be asked for his view directly.

MinisterGormley

niceonetom wrote: »

again, links?? who "they"? it IS a car park.

i was unaware that Misister Gormley was a boardsie and could be asked for his view directly.

If you don't know who "they" are you are not one of "them."

I have no comment at this time

Gavin

MinisterGormley wrote: »

If you don't know who "they" are you are not one of "them."

I have no comment at this time

haha, good work.

daymobrew

Last October I reported the OPW plans to eliminate parking from the eastern end of Chesterfield Ave. It is due to be implemented early next year (2009).

goldfish wrote:

Should get a good proportion of people out of cars and on to bus , meaning the park has less traffic.

The people who so vigorously objected to putting some 37 buses through the Phoenix Park seemed to forget this. Having said that, a 37 user told me that once the 37 eventually gets past Castleknock village it moves quite well i.e. going through the Park wouldn't make that much of a difference.

PS Why is this localised change "Bad news for Dublin and Ireland" - have the "No to Lisbon" posters gotten inside your head
PPS Why are people all expecting the Green Party to be our saviours now that they have a few ministers? The rest of the political parties should have been thinking about "green" issues long before now.

Sean02

Micmcio more and more roads in the park are been closed off to cars. I assume this was done in the interest of conservation by the OPW. Its a policy that seems to have total support of all us including motorists. I say this because I have never seen or heard any objections. The new proposal in my opinion will create more bottlenecks. this can be oserver after 4p.m. at the moment any evening. What I ment by them is this is not coming from anyone clearly identifyable. is it a partnership of OPW and QBN? Conservation and Progress? Whats wrong with looking for support from the Green Party or Minister Gormley (reply appreciated), Its issues like this that the people elected them to oversee because of the previous record of Government. At the end of the day there noting to be gained from a local or national point of view by changing the status que.

daymobrew

Sean02 wrote: »

At the end of the day there noting to be gained from a local or national point of view by changing the status quo.

Where else should this "change nothing" logic be applied? Should we stop building motorways? not electrify the Maynooth train line? stop painting white lines (and calling them cycle tracks)?

Yes, the OPW would love to close the Phoenix Park off in order to preserve it.
As a user of the Phoenix Park, I really like the positive changes that the recent changes have made (one way gates, no through road near Magazine Fort). I can cycle around with less traffic speeding by me. It is considerably more pleasant now.

RobAMerc

What the park and the areas of Castleknock, Chapelizod and Blanchardstown badly need is the abolishing of the toll on the M50 - alot of the traffic problems around there are caused by folks trying to skip the toll.

Anyway - as someone else said the best idea would be to run the luas up the park it could in fact share one track in the short term for both directions (lets not pretend they'd be very frequent) - but as we alwasy do in Ireland we'll go the cheap and nasty route (roundabouts and lights on M50 flyovers :rolleyes: ) this time a bus corridor

blorg

Sean02- why not write Gormley a letter asking for his view, I'm sure he would respond. I think he's a hard-working and genuine guy. Or even just email him, I've had a response before. Or collar him on his bike one day if you hang around Ringsend!

http://www.johngormley.com/wp/contact-me/

Bear in mind it MAY not be in his jurisdiction.

Victor

I really don't see any problem with replacing parking with bus lanes, unless you want to park on Chesterfield Avenue.

Luas doesn't make as much sense as electrifying the Maynooth line.

monument

Victor wrote: »

I really don't see any problem with replacing parking with bus lanes, unless you want to park on Chesterfield Avenue.

What he said. I don't see the big deal.

Sean02

Victor, thats just incredable 36000 posts, well done. Lets now aggree that the Phoenix Park authorities should encourage visitors, local, national and international whether they walk cycle, jog, hop, or drive to enjoy this great amenity. Let the motor vehicle commuters and the relevant authorities solve their problem outside the walls. As a matter of interest can we have a INFORMED viewpoint on the situation in other european and world city parks.
Electrify the Maynooth Line!! thats a joke, first we will have to explain the visitors this summer that when they get a train to visit the PHOENIX PARK they should have known to ask for ASHTOWN STATION otherwise they will have to join the flustrated motor commuters, on foot back to Ashtown to access the Park. Am I right??.

Harrybelafonte

I think restricting parking in the Park basically amounts to restricting access, simply because of how awkward the Park is to get to

Ste.phen

Seriously? You think it's awkward to get the phoenix park?
It takes up a rather HUGE area of the northside of dublin, is walkable from the city centre, has a Luas stop very close to the side of the park most tourists are interested in, etc.

Harrybelafonte

Igy wrote: »

Seriously? You think it's awkward to get the phoenix park?
It takes up a rather HUGE area of the northside of dublin, is walkable from the city centre, has a Luas stop very close to the side of the park most tourists are interested in, etc.

You're right, but try getting a four year old and a bike over there from Artane using public transport

Ste.phen

I'll concede on this point, not having children myself I can't comment on how awkward it may be.

The fact they don't allow bikes on buses at all doesn't help...

daymobrew

Sean02 wrote: »

Electrify the Maynooth Line!! thats a joke

Why is this a joke? It will allow a higher frequency service and there is the demand there.

Sean02 wrote: »

first we will have to explain the visitors this summer that when they get a train to visit the PHOENIX PARK they should have known to ask for ASHTOWN STATION otherwise they will have to join the frustrated motor commuters, on foot back to Ashtown to access the Park. Am I right??.

The station is known as "Phoenix Park" because the full title, "Phoenix Park Racecourse" is too cumbersome. In your opinion what should it be called?

I read about a request by some Fingal CoCo Councillors asking to get it renamed because tourists were being directed there by people working in a tourist office. It would be easier to educate those in the tourist office than rename the station.

Should we get CASTLEKNOCK train station renamed? - it's much nearer Blanchardstown village than Castleknock village.

daymobrew

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

You're right, but try getting a four year old and a bike over there from Artane using public transport

Why go all the way to the Phoenix Park when St Anne's Park is considerably closer?

Sean02

daymobrew wrote: »

Why is this a joke? It will allow a higher frequency service and there is the demand there. The station is known as "Phoenix Park" because the full title, "Phoenix Park Racecourse" is too cumbersome. In your opinion what should it be called?

I read about a request by some Fingal CoCo Councillors asking to get it renamed because tourists were being directed there by people working in a tourist office. It would be easier to educate those in the tourist office than rename the station.

Should we get CASTLEKNOCK train station renamed? - it's much nearer Blanchardstown village than Castleknock village.

"Phoenix Park Race Course"! Thats even worse,where is the racecourse? You could consider renaming Ashtown to Phoenix Park/Ashtown. a clearly defined description that requires minimal educational qualifications. The new station could be called the "The Goast of the Racecoarse Station" as I gather its a bit of a goast station with very few costomers, possibly because of it's remote location. Its a state of the art facility and perhaps built with Park and Ride in mind in the future. I think if you were to ask the residents living accross the green from the Castleknock station what is the correct location name is it would be Castleknock.

Harrybelafonte

daymobrew wrote: »

Why go all the way to the Phoenix Park when St Anne's Park is considerably closer?

Why not? Not many deer in Anne's is there, polo to watch, cricket, better walks? Don't understand why someone has to explain their choice of parks to visit. I choose to go to the Phoenix Park and don't see why that option should be taken from me because I'd drive there to enjoy cycling around it?? I cycled there every morning when I lived in Stoneybatter and still find it to be the most pleasant, relaxed and safe place to cycle in Dublin

daymobrew

Sean02 wrote: »

"Phoenix Park Race Course"! Thats even worse,where is the racecourse?

http://www.phoenixparkracecourse.com/location.htm - note that the houses in red are the current ones, with the rest future development.

Sean02 wrote: »

The new station could be called the "The Ghoast of the Racecourse Station" as I gather its a bit of a ghost station with very few customers, possibly because of it's remote location.

It was built as part of the planning permission for the Racecourse development. You see it as "remote" because it was built before many of the houses, something unusual in developments in Ireland. When the rest of the houses are built it won't be remote for them.

Harrybelafonte wrote:

Why not? Not many deer in Anne's is there, polo to watch, cricket, better walks? Don't understand why someone has to explain their choice of parks to visit. I choose to go to the Phoenix Park and don't see why that option should be taken from me because I'd drive there to enjoy cycling around it??

Did you look at the plans I mentioned? It involved replacing the Chesterfield Avenue parking with a car park at the Polo Grounds. There are no plans to prevent people from driving and parking in the Phoenix Park.
Even if a new car park wasn't being built, there are plenty of other areas there for you to park your car.

Sean02

Sorry Day You seem to miss the point. Does it make any sense calling a railway station "Phoenix Park" when it has no concievable association with the Phoenix Park in terms of access and regress for travellers wishing to use the train to get to the park from Dublin or the west. I'm still looking forward to INFORMED viewpoints on how other european and world city parks are use or not used to facilitate commuters,cars, buses, trains. and how they compromise or not the reason for having them there in the first place.

Victor

Sean02 wrote: »

Sorry Day You seem to miss the point. Does it make any sense calling a railway station "Phoenix Park" when it has no concievable association with the Phoenix Park in terms of access and regress for travellers wishing to use the train to get to the park from Dublin or the west. I'm still looking forward to INFORMED viewpoints on how other european and world city parks are use or not used to facilitate commuters,cars, buses, trains. and how they compromise or not the reason for having them there in the first place.

I don't see how this will affect cyclists that much.

BostonB

Sean02 wrote: »

Sorry Day You seem to miss the point. Does it make any sense calling a railway station "Phoenix Park" when it has no concievable association with the Phoenix Park in terms of access and regress for travellers wishing to use the train to get to the park from Dublin or the west. I'm still looking forward to INFORMED viewpoints on how other european and world city parks are use or not used to facilitate commuters,cars, buses, trains. and how they compromise or not the reason for having them there in the first place.

I agree the station "Phoenix Park" makes no sense. Neither does the "Castleknock Station" now you mention it. I think you'd need to look at Parks which were part of the transport infrastructure being taken out of it. As I think thats not usual and normally there are alternative routes, and methods of transport, that have built up over time. It would make no useful comparision to compare with a park that has never been used as part of the infrastructure. The Phoenix Park is a critical part of the D.15 transport infrastructure and you have to be pragmatic and realise this. The current one way system and road closures are causing havoc and gridlock. This isn't even the busiest time of the year and traffic should be lighter.

The main problem for the D.15 buses is the bottleneck of Castleknock, and the Quays. Also the bus goes a long way in going around the park. So by going through the park you don't avoid the gridlock, and bottlenecks you simply shorten the route. A QBC for the 37 in the park is only going to cause worse havoc as it will further reduce the throughput of cars in the park. Cars back up, for longer and the 37 will still be caught in the bottleneck in castleknock before it gets near to the park. Doesn't help the other buses in the area either like the 39/38 which carry more people and have a longer route.

RobAMerc wrote: »

What the park and the areas of Castleknock, Chapelizod and Blanchardstown badly need is the abolishing of the toll on the M50 - alot of the traffic problems around there are caused by folks trying to skip the toll.
...

The problems existed long before the M50 was there. Theres only 3 single lane roads feeding all the cars from D.15 and out as far as Navan into the city center. They've over developed D.15 and beyond and there simply isn't the infrastructure in place to handle it. This was true 15yrs ago and nothing has been done about it. In fact with bus lanes, one way systems, and traffic lights everywhere, the road capacity/throughout is greatly reduced from what is was 15yrs ago. The only solution is to get people out of their cars and on to an integrated public bus, tram, train network. Where you can hop a shuttle bus to the park, then switch to a tram that gets you to the end of the park and onto a Luas or a bus in Hueston. All on the same ticket. And provide proper cycling facilities for people getting from D.15 into the city center.