Penalty Points: court appearance

Radley

Got 1 PP in the post last August.

Sent a cheque in about a week before the 90-day deadline.

Cheque and form was returned saying that it couldn't be processed cos there was no driver's licence number written on the form.

Guards called to my mother's house last night to deliver a summons.

Been living in England since last October. (only heard that my penalty point payment was rejected in January 2007 when I happened to be back to collect some mail). I called the relevant office and the woman simply said "you'll be sent a summons so"

Is the summons valid?

seamus

Why wouldn't it be?

Radley

seamus wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be?

Eh, I have no idea. I don't live at that address and I don't drive any more? The dog ate it?

Bandara

It is your responsibilty to ensure that the fine is fully paid within the correct time, you assumed it was ok you should have made it your business to confirm it was. You did not do this so you have not a leg to stand on.

The letter you received you sat on for 83 days before sending it in, you then made an error when sending it in which resulted in the accepted time frame being exceeded, you are now liable to the standard further enforcment procedures that apply.

lol, I love saying that, did it for a year debt collecting for the Australian Government. I'd imagine the same basic logic applies here.

Tough poo-poo my friend, your screwed

Cantab.

I'd say you're pretty screwed alright my friend.

jhegarty

would they not need to find him to serve the summons ?

McCrack

jhegarty wrote: »

would they not need to find him to serve the summons ?

Last known address will suffice.

grumpytrousers

Hammertime wrote: »

It is your responsibilty to ensure that the fine is fully paid within the correct time, you assumed it was ok you should have made it your business to confirm it was. You did not do this so you have not a leg to stand on.

Without having any particular sympathy for the OP, i think that this attitude (not so much Hammertime as the 'system) is a bit skewey though. I got stopped by the Gardai in mid-march for speeding and the fixed penalty notice came through by the end of the month. I paid it immediately and have yet to recieve an official receipt from them to say everything is peachy.

Okay - i took it upon myself to ring and to make sure, but I'm not sure that it's good enough.

Mind you, mark my words, the current regime is going to get such an overhaul in the next few years it'll be unrecognisable. Pal of mine is a Garda and told me that at a recent sitting around these here parts, it took an hour and a half for a 'fixed penalty notice' to get converted into a conviction plus 4 points.

Otherwise it was a procession of chancers (IMNSHO) coming up and saying 'oh i never got the notice'...

Gumbyman

What exactly does a conviction mean in this situation? Is it a criminal record or what? If this guy doesn't show up in court is it automatic 4 points and conviction or is there a bench warrant or any of that jazz?

Any why did it take an hour and a half for that guys conviction? I don't understand.

Our man in Havana

Gumbyman wrote: »

What exactly does a conviction mean in this situation? Is it a criminal record or what? If this guy doesn't show up in court is it automatic 4 points and conviction or is there a bench warrant or any of that jazz?

Yes it is a criminal record. I doubt a bench warrant would be issued.

Gumbyman wrote: »

Any why did it take an hour and a half for that guys conviction? I don't understand.

A little thing called legal argument.

grumpytrousers

Gumbyman wrote: »

Any why did it take an hour and a half for that guys conviction? I don't understand.

if it's me you're querying, it's the fact that on a list of, say 15 people all up for fixed charge notices, the first 14, at around 10 minutes each between to-ing and froing all said 'i didn't get the notice'.

Strike Out. Next

Number 15. The Honest bloke got the conviction.

Gobán Saor

Hammertime wrote: »

It is your responsibilty to ensure that the fine is fully paid...

Probably wasting my time here, but it's not a fine, folks. I really hate it when people call it that. It's a fixed penalty charge. Only a court can fine you and then only following conviction. The issuing of a parking/speeding ticket is NOT the same as the issuing of a fine. You are not required to pay the fixed penalty; you are under NO legal obligation whatsoever to do so. You are being offered a choice; either pay the fixed penalty or you may be prosecuted for the offence. The system only works cos most people meekly accept the fixed penalty and the points. If everybody didn't pay the fixed penalty the system would grind to a halt pretty rapidly.

grumpytrousers

Gobán Saor wrote: »

Probably wasting my time here, but it's not a fine, folks. I really hate it when people call it that. It's a fixed penalty charge. Only a court can fine you and then only following conviction. The issuing of a parking/speeding ticket is NOT the same as the issuing of a fine. You are not required to pay the fixed penalty; you are under NO legal obligation whatsoever to do so. You are being offered a choice; either pay the fixed penalty or you may be prosecuted for the offence. The system only works cos most people meekly accept the fixed penalty and the points. If everybody didn't pay the fixed penalty the system would grind to a halt pretty rapidly.

as i was alluding to early on...it's grinding to a halt already. If anybody has a bit of spare time and fancies a look-see in their local District Court they'll see (depending on the attitude of the local judge) a steady procession of folks claiming they didn't get the notice. It's quite quite remarkable. A lesser man would think that there's a concerted effort by An Post to refuse to deliver all the fixed penalty notices...

Steve

Bond-007 wrote: »

Yes it is a criminal record. I doubt a bench warrant would be issued.

I thought it was a civil offence therefore not leading to a criminal record?

McCrack

stevec wrote: »

I thought it was a civil offence therefore not leading to a criminal record?

Road traffic law is criminal...prosecuted by Garda/State.

Morgans

Sorry sort of a related issue, but I did get caught speeding at Easter - early easter this year if you remember - and I GENUINELY havent had any notice in the post of what to do next. Now, it could come in the post tomorrow, someone on boards mentioned that it is not unknown for it to take 6 months to come through. I am willing to accept my penalty, once I get notice. Its not all chancers who are saying they didnt get notice. Why dont the guards have a system like registered post to ensure that chancers dont get away with it.

Our man in Havana

Simple really. Registered post costs €5 per letter, regular post €0.55 per letter. It would mean a loss of revenue of €4.45 per paid penalty. It probably would be more as there is more manual admin work needed when posting notices by registered post.

Morgans

yes, and the two public service bodies couldn't come to an arrangement that would allow the guards to send registered post at cheaper than the normal price. As it stands they would more than make their money back if 1 in every 15 people have to pay their fine. Why not increase the fine to cover the cost of the post?

Victor

Morgans wrote: »

Why dont the guards have a system like registered post to ensure that chancers dont get away with it.

Some people will then deliberately avoid accepting registered post.

Radley

I wonder what would happen if your name and address were spelt incorrectly on the summons.

Our man in Havana

It would be corrected.

Radley

Hi folks,

The bean-Garda wrote the wrong charge on some sheet somewhere. Was all over so fast, I didn't actually understand/care what happened.

Got struck out (as did about 75% of the other chaps).

Happy days.

Aside: Had great fun looking at the bean-Garda's messages on bebo! Now I could only view the public profiles, but she'd left messages on loads of her mates' public bebo pages. Great thing 'aul google and the internet.

Darcy Dougal

Probably straying from the thread a bit but I called into motor tax office to renew my driving licence & was asked if my endorsement was up? I know nothing about an endorsement on my licence & was told she had a note on her computer to advise of an endorsement for speeding from Arklow/Gorey DC in October 1999. Was told they would process my application anyway but I'd have to appeal to district court to have endorsement removed! This was the first I'd heard of it!! How do I go about appealing this?

Our man in Havana

Endorsements are spent after 3 years. Did you not hand in your licence at the time?

Darcy Dougal

I was never caught speeding, the first I heard of this was when I went to renew my licence. I was told it related to October 1999...received no speeding ticket, summons or fine.

peachystarr

Im just wondering if anyone has any advice.

My friend got caught for speeding at the start of may, she got the letter the other day about paying the fixed penalty fee but it had the wrong date on it, it says she was caught on a thurday but she was actually caught on a friday , if she doesnt pay it and goes to court , is there a good chance it will get thrown out because the date is wrong and she wont have to take the points?

the reason shes so reluctant to take them is it was a temporary change of speed limit due to roadworks and she was caught about 1 km after the roadworks had finished but speed limit hadnt ended so therefore causing no danger to anyone.

Any info much appreciated or if anyone has been in this situation before, thanks.

Our man in Havana

Talk to a solicitor.

Steve

peachystarr, if your 'friend' pays the fixed penalty it's some points and a few quid. If they go to court and win, it'll cost more for the solicitor than the fine. If they lose then they pay both with the added bonus of a conviction recorded against them.

In saying that there's a reasonable chance it would be thrown out, I'd talk to a solicitor and get some proper advice on it.